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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9567
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Posted - 2014.06.18 13:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not suggesting a nerf to these 2 weapons in any fashion, but I'm trying to gather the community's thoughts on this one. I'll be using this data later, so please answer to the best of your abilities.
Quote:
"What justifies the current strength of both the Shotgun and Nova Knives?"
-HAND
Director of NoGameNoLife
"The Snack That Smiles Back; Amarr Suits"
-HAND
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3954
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Posted - 2014.06.18 13:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Little chumps that got owned back in Chromosome.
PSN: The_Rynoceros
Destiny beta SoonGäó
Console Master Race
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3602
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Posted - 2014.06.18 13:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
CQC range. Requires speed to use. Speed = fragility (generally speaking).
They're fine.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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BLOOD Ruler
The Lionheart Coalition
373
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Posted - 2014.06.18 13:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Speed,stealth and close range.Nova knives=challenge I use them.
Feel the pain of my knives and the piercing pain your skull has felt to my pistol.I am the Assassin.
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
159
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Posted - 2014.06.18 13:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Being weapons requiring the user to get into very close range (the shotgun) or extremely close/sitting-in-your-target's-lap range (Nova Knives), you ain't gonna have much margin for error. I don't use the shotgun anymore except in very, very niche situations (I've used it once in the last two weeks, for two kills, and switched back to my CR/NK suit), so I won't speak about it. But the knives... it takes me precious time to get close enough to use the knives, being careful that my target and his mates aren't facing in a way that will put me in their field of view and hoping they don't have a CalScout nearby. If the target is a heavy, it will take two, maybe three or more stabs (the first being fully charged - I typically don't have time to charge knives again.)
To be effective at all, they need to devastate the first time. If I miss one of the two stabs, I'm dead.
For shotgunners, I imagine it's much the same. Getting so close means running a light suit for the speed. There are shotgunners who stack armor, thus slowing themselves down, but those scouts who actually try to be stealthy aren't running armor in their lows and often not evven shields in their highs. They're running Damps to hide and PEs to see. They only get one or two shots to take you down, three if they're lucky. Those shots have to count.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG.
Unless Mal says no :(
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rpastry
The Rainbow Effect
180
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Posted - 2014.06.18 14:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Being blindsided with shotties is still annoying, Nova knifers are far rarer and seem to be less accurate as i've had way more success killing them.
Both are playing a completely different game to the run'n'gunners; one that involves little or no gungame but is more of a stealth-em-up.
I appreciate this is CCPs rock-paper-scissors approach to classes and I think its reasonably well balanced, I tried shotties a while and although successful I found that, to paraphrase Han Solo; 'I prefer a straight up fight to all that sneaking around.'
I'd possibly nerf them a little just so there some chance of reacting before the second shot hits and you're dead, but i think the point is if you're relatively immobile and they can get behind you, you're dead.
[Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2004
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Posted - 2014.06.18 14:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Extremely limited range and low RoF.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Onesimus Tarsus
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
2139
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Posted - 2014.06.18 14:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Weapon strength doesn't matter, because...
K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2005
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Posted - 2014.06.18 14:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Little chumps that got owned back in Chromosome.
The Shotgun was far more powerful in Chrome than in Uprising.
* Range was better (no backpedaling / bunnyhop counter)
* TTK was better (targets had far less HP)
* Hit Detection was better
* Heavies didn't insta-spin
Maximum HP has tripled since Chromosome. Has Shotgun damage kept pace?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2006
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Posted - 2014.06.18 14:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I'm not suggesting a nerf to these 2 weapons in any fashion, but I'm trying to gather the community's thoughts on this one. I'll be using this data later, so please answer to the best of your abilities.
Shotgun
1) Extend optimal range or improve damage dropoff.
2) Return the shotgun RoF proficiency bonus.
3) Improve hit detection (where possible).
4) Add headshot multiplier to Breach Shotgun variants.
* Do not increase base damage.
Nova Knives
1) Extend blade length from 2m to 3m
2) Reduce PG requirements (Minja aid).
3) Improve damage at Std and Adv levels.
4) Set forward movement speed to 110% of backpedal speed.
* Do not permit sprinting while charged.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
14622
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Posted - 2014.06.18 15:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Because a single bunny hop can take you out of the optimals of both weapons.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
162
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Posted - 2014.06.18 15:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Atiim wrote:I'm not suggesting a nerf to these 2 weapons in any fashion, but I'm trying to gather the community's thoughts on this one. I'll be using this data later, so please answer to the best of your abilities.
Shotgun1) Extend optimal range or improve damage dropoff. 2) Return the shotgun RoF proficiency bonus. 3) Improve hit detection (where possible). 4) Add headshot multiplier to Breach Shotgun variants. * Do not increase base damage. Nova Knives1) Extend blade length from 2m to 3m 2) Reduce PG requirements (Minja aid). 3) Improve damage at Std and Adv levels. 4) Set forward movement speed to 110% of backpedal speed. * Do not permit sprinting while charged.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG.
Unless Mal says no :(
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3616
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Posted - 2014.06.18 16:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Atiim wrote:I'm not suggesting a nerf to these 2 weapons in any fashion, but I'm trying to gather the community's thoughts on this one. I'll be using this data later, so please answer to the best of your abilities.
Shotgun1) Extend optimal range or improve damage dropoff. 2) Return the shotgun RoF proficiency bonus. 3) Improve hit detection (where possible). 4) Add headshot multiplier to Breach Shotgun variants. * Do not increase base damage. Nova Knives1) Extend blade length from 2m to 3m 2) Reduce PG requirements (Minja aid). 3) Improve damage at Std and Adv levels. 4) Set forward movement speed to 110% of backpedal speed. * Do not permit sprinting while charged.
The only part of that I have a (potential) problem with is the essentially free Fitting Optimisation you're requesting. I'd prefer that the NKs just get a more complete tree.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
274
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Posted - 2014.06.18 16:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Killing heavies. Situational awareness.
Uh... Nova knives are cool and hard to use
It's a miracle... I'm tearing heavies apart with my GEK again... tears form in my eyes
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ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1321
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Posted - 2014.06.18 16:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Atiim wrote:I'm not suggesting a nerf to these 2 weapons in any fashion, but I'm trying to gather the community's thoughts on this one. I'll be using this data later, so please answer to the best of your abilities.
Shotgun1) Extend optimal range or improve damage dropoff. 2) Return the shotgun RoF proficiency bonus. 3) Improve hit detection (where possible). 4) Add headshot multiplier to Breach Shotgun variants. * Do not increase base damage. Nova Knives1) Extend blade length from 2m to 3m 2) Reduce PG requirements (Minja aid). 3) Improve damage at Std and Adv levels. 4) Set forward movement speed to 110% of backpedal speed. * Do not permit sprinting while charged. The only part of that I have a (potential) problem with is the essentially free Fitting Optimisation you're requesting. I'd prefer that the NKs just get a more complete tree.
Since they have shown to be willing to add skills (Armor Composition) I think that could be a healthy compromise.
If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known.
Also, Raptors...
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
3706
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Posted - 2014.06.18 16:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I'm not suggesting a nerf to these 2 weapons in any fashion, but I'm trying to gather the community's thoughts on this one. I'll be using this data later, so please answer to the best of your abilities. Quote:
"What justifies the current strength of both the Shotgun and Nova Knives?"
-HAND
These are Alpha Damage Weapons, an important factor for low eHP suits to balance out against high eHP suits with DPS weapons. Require close range to balance out high damage output, so they are balanced out on light frames rather well, as they are generally faster and better suited to using them.
KRRROOOOOOM
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2954
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Posted - 2014.06.18 16:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Little chumps that got owned back in Chromosome. The Shotgun was far more powerful in Chrome than in Uprising. * Range was better (no backpedaling / bunnyhop counter) * TTK was better (targets had far less HP) * Hit Detection was better* Heavies didn't insta-spin Maximum HP has tripled since Chromosome. Has Shotgun damage kept pace?
No, Adipem, no. Hit detection was not better then. I think you've fallen into "back in my day!" vet level. Blue-shielding was just as bad as it was in Uprising 1.0 as it was in Chromosome. There was also lag between when you hit R1/left-click and when the blast fired.
4.3-4.8 meter optimal range on the shotgun
2 meter range on the knives
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1572879 here's a good thread about Alpha/Strike damage vs DPS
The reason that these weapons have such high damage is because they give the game flavor/variety.
They're situational weapons that theoretically have lower DPS than other weapons but because of the high numbers can kill in shorter time. Missing a shot comes with a huge drawback so you have to make sure you get the hits. So that theoretically lower DPS becomes actualized if you miss even one shot or have to deal more than 3 shots from any of the Alpha weapons
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9576
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Posted - 2014.06.18 17:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Because a single bunny hop can take you out of the optimals of both weapons.
Well if your a Matari suit you don't even need to bunny hop to do that. 
Director of NoGameNoLife
"The Snack That Smiles Back; Amarr Suits"
-HAND
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Taylor Badasz
Proficiency V.
72
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Posted - 2014.06.18 17:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Because a single bunny hop can take you out of the optimals of both weapons. Well if your a Matari suit you don't even need to bunny hop to do that.
See I know matari suits are awesome. dur.
Lazer focused...
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2016
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Posted - 2014.06.18 17:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Atiim wrote:I'm not suggesting a nerf to these 2 weapons in any fashion, but I'm trying to gather the community's thoughts on this one. I'll be using this data later, so please answer to the best of your abilities.
Shotgun1) Extend optimal range or improve damage dropoff. 2) Return the shotgun RoF proficiency bonus. 3) Improve hit detection (where possible). 4) Add headshot multiplier to Breach Shotgun variants. * Do not increase base damage. Nova Knives1) Extend blade length from 2m to 3m 2) Reduce PG requirements (Minja aid). 3) Improve damage at Std and Adv levels. 4) Set forward movement speed to 110% of backpedal speed. * Do not permit sprinting while charged. The only part of that I have a (potential) problem with is the essentially free Fitting Optimisation you're requesting. I'd prefer that the NKs just get a more complete tree.
You are absolutely correct. I will revise my overview. +1
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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