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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
362
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Heavies have-2-8x the HP of the scout and assault, and the strongest weapon in the game. In exchange, they are less mobile, and have worse e-war than these other suits. However, this doesn't matter as the only way to kill a heavy with any rifle short of the rail and occasionally scrambler is to be within range of the heavy himself, opening up the ability for the heavy to leverage superior HP and fire power in a one on one situation.
The counter to this, in theory, is to use the heavies poor e-war and mobility against him, and use a surprise attack to catch him off guard and thus even out the firefight.
However, heavies currently have the same turning speed as other frames, and thus this tactic is completely non-viable, especially using shorter range weapons such as the AR and CR. To any heavy that uses any form of tactics, there exists no counter.
My suggestion for balancing this is to simply reduce the rotation of the frame but still keep aiming the same (in other words, once the heavy begins to turn, the turn speed hits a barrier where it is slowed to some constant rate that is slower than that of other frames). This makes the heavy vulnerable to attacks from behind and at range, however, they still remain the undisputed kings of one on one straight up combat.
Rattati, if you are reading this and it cannot be done w/out a server side update, please at least include it in legion for the love of balance.
Thanks guys
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
367
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Posted - 2014.06.10 02:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Come on...some one has to have some form of feedback on this!
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
529
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Posted - 2014.06.10 03:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
I approve
Although I think your rotation speed should also be affected by your weapon.
If I am using a Scrambler Pistol, my rotation speed should be faster than if I had a HMG or ScR.
Lock me Bro. I DARE YOU!!!
PS News
R.A.W- Rich and Worthless
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
370
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Posted - 2014.06.10 03:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:I approve
Although I think your rotation speed should also be affected by your weapon.
If I am using a Scrambler Pistol, my rotation speed should be faster than if I had a HMG or ScR. agreed, though id limit it to sidearms to discourage light weapon heavies from replacing assaults
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
529
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 04:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Forever ETC wrote:I approve
Although I think your rotation speed should also be affected by your weapon.
If I am using a Scrambler Pistol, my rotation speed should be faster than if I had a HMG or ScR. agreed, though id limit it to sidearms to discourage light weapon heavies from replacing assaults Well, let me try to rework this to be more clear.
Default Turning Speed(Slowest-Fastest): Frames- Heavies>Mediums>Lights
Roles- Sentinel>Commando>Assault>Logistic>Scout
Now I'm just gonna use some numbers here, so don't take them seriously, they're for reference. Lower # = Faster Turning Speed. Let's say the current value of turning speed is 75. Medium Frames have this value as their default turning speed. Heavies would have 25% slower TS(Turning Speed) than Medium Frames while Light Frames have 25% faster TS than Mediums.This leaves us with these values.
Frame TS: Heavies- 94 (93.75) Mediums- 75 (75.00) Light- 56 (56.25)
Now off to Role TS. Anyways there is a 10% change between role suit.
Role TS: Sentinel- 103 (103.125) Commando- 84 (84.375) Assault- 83 (82.5) Note: Might moves this to 75 Logistic- 68 (67.5) Scout- 51 (50.625)
Weapons and Turning Speed: Light Weapons will either slow your TS or keep it the same.(Still up for debate)
Heavy Weapons: Increases TS by 10% Light Weapons: Increases TS by 5% Sidearms- Decreases TS by 5%
Again, numbers are just for reference.
Lock me Bro. I DARE YOU!!!
PS News
R.A.W- Rich and Worthless
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
984
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Posted - 2014.06.10 09:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Forever ETC wrote:I approve
Although I think your rotation speed should also be affected by your weapon.
If I am using a Scrambler Pistol, my rotation speed should be faster than if I had a HMG or ScR. agreed, though id limit it to sidearms to discourage light weapon heavies from replacing assaults Well, let me try to rework this to be more clear. Default Turning Speed(Slowest-Fastest): Frames- Heavies>Mediums>Lights Roles- Sentinel>Commando>Assault>Logistic>Scout Now I'm just gonna use some numbers here, so don't take them seriously, they're for reference. Lower # = Faster Turning Speed. Let's say the current value of turning speed is 75. Medium Frames have this value as their default turning speed. Heavies would have 25% slower TS(Turning Speed) than Medium Frames while Light Frames have 25% faster TS than Mediums.This leaves us with these values. Frame TS: Heavies- 94 (93.75) Mediums- 75 (75.00) Light- 56 (56.25) Now off to Role TS. Anyways there is a 10% change between role suit. Role TS: Sentinel- 103 (103.125) Commando- 84 (84.375) Assault- 83 (82.5) Note: Might moves this to 75 Logistic- 68 (67.5) Scout- 51 (50.625) Weapons and Turning Speed: Light Weapons will either slow your TS or keep it the same.(Still up for debate) Heavy Weapons: Increases TS by 10% Light Weapons: Increases TS by 5% Sidearms- Decreases TS by 5% Again, numbers are just for reference.
Yes in general I agree but why do give logistics faster turn speed than assaults? Assaults should have faster turn speeds they should only be topped by light frames... |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens Final Resolution.
2765
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Posted - 2014.06.10 12:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Turning speed for light weapons should be based on its type, for example we have long range, mid range, and short range.
Short range weapons should lower your turning speed because they are made of light materials.
Mid range weapons are general weapons and should have a neutral to light turning speed penalty.
Long range weapons are usually made of heavy materials to reduce recoil and thus should increase turning speed significantly.
Then we have light AV weapons... I think the should lower turning speed.
~~~~~~
Side arms should all decrease turning speed with pistols being better than SMG's.
~~~~~~
Heavy weapons should always lower turning speed.
Now this all sounds great and all (not my post but the suggestions above) The problem is that if turning speed isn't a default base value attached to weapons that the devs can quickly modify this is something we will never see.
As for suit turning speed that is a default value and something we should focus on. Not weapons.
Heavy suits should have the lowest turning speed. Based on a percentage of their base speed.
Medium suits a neutral turning speed. Based on a percentage of their base speed.
Light suits a fast turning speed. Based on a percentage of their base speed.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2405
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Posted - 2014.06.10 13:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Turning speed for light weapons should be based on its type, for example we have long range, mid range, and short range.
Short range weapons should lower your turning speed because they are made of light materials.
Mid range weapons are general weapons and should have a neutral to light turning speed penalty.
Long range weapons are usually made of heavy materials to reduce recoil and thus should increase turning speed significantly.
Then we have light AV weapons... I think the should lower turning speed.
~~~~~~
Side arms should all decrease turning speed with pistols being better than SMG's.
~~~~~~
Heavy weapons should always lower turning speed.
Now this all sounds great and all (not my post but the suggestions above) The problem is that if turning speed isn't a default base value attached to weapons that the devs can quickly modify this is something we will never see.
As for suit turning speed that is a default value and something we should focus on. Not weapons.
Heavy suits should have the lowest turning speed. Based on a percentage of their base speed.
Medium suits a neutral turning speed. Based on a percentage of their base speed.
Light suits a fast turning speed. Based on a percentage of their base speed.
How would heavier things make it faster to turn? If anything it should be the opposite to make long range weapons less effective at close range. This would have the completely opposite effect you want. |
IRISH BANANA
THESE ARE THE VOYAGES.....
2
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
As a heavy i can say that would be a bad idea. We would have no defense against invisible ninjas. Actually we dont as it it
No one on my team gets red lined when i`m around.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
39
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
leave heavys as they are. scouts already 2-3 shot most heavies from behind and due to being scouts they are fast and easy to flank a heavy and wont show up on the scanner.... heck even nova knives OHK some basic heavys and most commando's
Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone?
No Mic and no time for "Squeekers"
Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
39
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
IRISH BANANA wrote:As a heavy i can say that would be a bad idea. We would have no defense against invisible ninjas. Actually we dont as it it
agree.. they sneek up to you cloaked and blap you twice and your dead... and because were fat slow targets they can do this repeatedly, easily, and in a rage inducing amount
Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone?
No Mic and no time for "Squeekers"
Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
39
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 14:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Heavies have-2-8x the HP of the scout and assault, and the strongest weapon in the game. In exchange, they are less mobile, and have worse e-war than these other suits. However, this doesn't matter as the only way to kill a heavy with any rifle short of the rail and occasionally scrambler is to be within range of the heavy himself, opening up the ability for the heavy to leverage superior HP and fire power in a one on one situation. The counter to this, in theory, is to use the heavies poor e-war and mobility against him, and use a surprise attack to catch him off guard and thus even out the firefight. However, heavies currently have the same turning speed as other frames, and thus this tactic is completely non-viable, especially using shorter range weapons such as the AR and CR. To any heavy that uses any form of tactics, there exists no counter. My suggestion for balancing this is to simply reduce the rotation of the frame but still keep aiming the same (in other words, once the heavy begins to turn, the turn speed hits a barrier where it is slowed to some constant rate that is slower than that of other frames). This makes the heavy vulnerable to attacks from behind and at range, however, they still remain the undisputed kings of one on one straight up combat. Rattati, if you are reading this and it cannot be done w/out a server side update, please at least include it in legion for the love of balance. Thanks guys
bad idea is bad with the exception of perhaps faster turning when useing a sidearm
Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone?
No Mic and no time for "Squeekers"
Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
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