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Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
495
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Posted - 2014.06.08 01:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I thought those were supposed to come with hotfix alpha, but they were never mentioned in the blog. When/if hotfix beta is in the works, will those fixes come? It's been too long of a wait for working small rail turrets; their hit detection has always been god awful. It's hard enough hitting people accurately while on the move, without this god awful turret hit detection mechanics getting in the way.
In case you don't already know, the problems are as follows:
-Firing while on the move scatters the shot or causes it to explode inside the turret
-Firing while turning has some weird effect on the aiming mechanic of the turret (If your vehicle is turning to the right, the projectile gets dislocated with the reticle by a large distance to the right) - I think this is possibly the fact that the automatic turret rotation (to keep the gunner facing the same direction while the vehicle is rotating) is not fast enough to keep the turret aligned with the reticle
-Small railgun rounds consistently phase through enemies when vehicle is positioned at weird angles, small railgun rounds occasionally begin to pass through enemies after a certain range (about 150m)
The above includes the major issues. I believe that the source of this problem could be caused by the independence of the small turret from the operator/ reticle (when the turret auto adjusts itself while turning or when the turret lifts its muzzle up and down around walls).
A possible solution for this problem would be either to remove the turret independence (fixing it to the alignment of the vehicle) or to ramp up the potential speed of the auto adjust mechanic to infinity ( to prevent the dislocation sensation while firing on the move).
Thoughts? |
Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1835
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Posted - 2014.06.08 02:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Your last paragraph basically says what I was going to mention. I noticed during one flight with a dropship where I was gunning that when the dropship was turning stupidly fast, my turret aim was stuck to one side and I couldn't aim at all in the other direction. Small turret rotation should be factored with respect to the vehicle, not with a static ground reference point as it is currently.
The auto-stabilization should still be in effect to account for vehicle movements and help gunners' aims, though rotation should be accounted for with respect to the vehicle. For example, if a vehicle is turning as fast as the small turret can rotate, the auto-stabilization will keep it unmoving, though the player cannot turn the turret (with respect to a static view) in the direction opposite of the vehicle's turn while they can rotate it twice as fast (with respect to a static view) in the direction of the vehicle's turn.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
805
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Posted - 2014.06.08 02:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Take an elastic string and tie it to your finger. Now wave your hand around. (if gravity was not present) The untied end of that string illustrates the origin point of projectiles from small weaponry .
Bullets and missiles do not fire from inside the turret, but from an inertia point that the turret is NOT at, and as a result, can be launched from a location the turret was NEVER at. (such as it can fire from a meter/ above the dropship if the driver lurches down a half foot suddenly by way such as quickly swapping out of the driver seat then back in again.
Same happens for all small turrets and some large turrets. The projectile point is in opposition to the vector of travel to an irrational degree. Makes it incredibly hard to aim because it fires in a non-realistic manner. What you point at is not what you hit.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust, theme
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Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
496
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Posted - 2014.06.08 12:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Take an elastic string and tie it to your finger. Now wave your hand around. (if gravity was not present) The untied end of that string illustrates the origin point of projectiles from small weaponry .
Bullets and missiles do not fire from inside the turret, but from an inertia point that the turret is NOT at, and as a result, can be launched from a location the turret was NEVER at. (such as it can fire from a meter/ above the dropship if the driver lurches down a half foot suddenly by way such as quickly swapping out of the driver seat then back in again.
Same happens for all small turrets and some large turrets. The projectile point is in opposition to the vector of travel to an irrational degree. Makes it incredibly hard to aim because it fires in a non-realistic manner. What you point at is not what you hit.
Agreed. I meant to say when the vehicle turns right, the projectiles fall behind to the left. I was tired when I wrote this.
I believe projectiles are spawned just in front of the turret by a meter or so.
The reason we can isolate this bug is because hit detection while on the move in an ADS (small turret) or tank (Large turret) is fine, possibly due to the fact that they are both independently operated and the turrets they use rarely (if ever) turn automatically.
This is why I believe that the source of the problem is in the auto adjustment of the small gunners' turrets while the pilot is turning (or just accelerating in general).
We could probably fix this issue by adjusting the spawn point of the projectile (based on current the speed of the vehicle) so that it doesnt explode on the user at high speeds. If lag is an issue, we could look into a way for the turret's position (in relation to the vehicle) to be registered and tracked server side, so that, even with lag, a small turret would begin to automatically rotate without delay.
The way I see it right now, is that the auto turret alignment feature feels like its late by about .25-.5 seconds, giving us the "delayed" or misaligned aiming we have now.
So with that said, a blue tag would be extremely helpful to tell us whether or not this is possible to solve and if it will be coming in hotfix bravo. |
NIGg NawGG
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2014.06.08 18:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
bump for truth |
Lynn Beck
Heaven's Lost Property
1736
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Posted - 2014.06.08 20:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Isn't it just the fact they made bullets not aim straight on center because of the fabled Chromosome muderdropships?
I remember them making everything stupidly inaccurate just to solve that, then when they went to add in Ammo, we the players told them to remove the inaccuracies because this was pretty much making small turrets obsolete.
General John Ripper
Like ALL the things!!!
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Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
496
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Posted - 2014.06.09 22:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Isn't it just the fact they made bullets not aim straight on center because of the fabled Chromosome muderdropships?
I remember them making everything stupidly inaccurate just to solve that, then when they went to add in Ammo, we the players told them to remove the inaccuracies because this was pretty much making small turrets obsolete.
Dropships in chrome were a cruel, cruel joke.
Going back and look at CB footage it seems that the inaccuracy has always been here |
Kaughst
Nyain San
General Tso's Alliance
511
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Posted - 2014.06.09 22:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
I am not sure when it was but I use to use the small blaster turret with my friend in his dropship. The main thing I enjoyed was the fact that it had enough dispersion to hit targets as the dropship moved. If they made it so that it did not overheat as fast, better ROF and more rounds per clip while maintaining the range that would be great.
"He said he has a alt in STB."
"Everyone has a alt in STB."
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Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1441
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Posted - 2014.06.09 22:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
A gunner of mine noticed that if you put the reticule a little to the right or left of the target it hits. Very odd but it solves the problem in the mean time before the hit detection is fixed. |
Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
496
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:A gunner of mine noticed that if you put the reticule a little to the right or left of the target it hits. Very odd but it solves the problem in the mean time before the hit detection is fixed.
This is a known workaround to the poor hit detection, as it was one of the main focuses of my OP. I have a feeling it is related to how the turret automatically counter-rotates while the vehicle is turning. |
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3758
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Wow that's still a problem? Just goes to show CCP priorities
CCP Priorities wrote:
Blah
Blah blah
Very last item: Small Turrets which are the most fun turrets
There is an alternative way around this that has worked before.
Back in the day with turret variations such as the scattered blaster, it's high as hell damage compensated for it's ****** detection but with the introduction of ammunition to turrets this probably won't fly.
Also HD is problematic on LAVs as well you know (at least blasters followed by rails)
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1442
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Posted - 2014.06.10 00:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:A gunner of mine noticed that if you put the reticule a little to the right or left of the target it hits. Very odd but it solves the problem in the mean time before the hit detection is fixed. This is a known workaround to the poor hit detection, as it was one of the main focuses of my OP. I have a feeling it is related to how the turret automatically counter-rotates while the vehicle is turning.
Oh I meant from a stationary position |
Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
499
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 18:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:A gunner of mine noticed that if you put the reticule a little to the right or left of the target it hits. Very odd but it solves the problem in the mean time before the hit detection is fixed. This is a known workaround to the poor hit detection, as it was one of the main focuses of my OP. I have a feeling it is related to how the turret automatically counter-rotates while the vehicle is turning. Oh I meant from a stationary position
Oh crap then, that's new. I think I've experienced that while using a small rail |
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