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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2397
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Posted - 2014.06.05 19:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
I really think a VERY big change to this patch will take a bit to feel out is the COMPLETE removal of the lockdown/sloth/slowdown effect from weapons.
This effect made fielding a fast/sprint/speed tank with sprint mods not very effective. Now it can be harder for low alpha high RoF weapons to be as effective. Combining the CR nerf, and armor mods getting a bit more of a speed penalty and difficulty in fielding the lower versions will likely mean we will see an average increase of suit speed and more reliance on shields.
Not being locked down by high RoF weapons will make shield more important as it is more survivable under fire now.
We need to wait to see what kind of balance will take effect once we start to see more kincats on shield tanks filter in.
Even then, if we saw a change to medium suits and shields at the same time this could also be a really big change. Especially since it would probably mean a shift toward more effective use of light weapons from assault suits.
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad.
9142
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Posted - 2014.06.05 20:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
The removal of the slowdown effect won't change the facts that:
- Shield Extenders are worthless at Basic and Enhanced Tiers
- Shield Extenders have ridiculous CPU/PG requirements.
- Lack of variety in Shield Extenders <---- That may be a personal problem though
Waiting out the changes won't prove otherwise either.
Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical.
Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub.
-HAND
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Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1382
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Posted - 2014.06.05 20:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Haven't played alpha yet (ps3 died) but I am 100% sure that even with the change to armor mods my cal assault suit is better off hybrid tanking than shield tanking. I would like to see that change, as the caldari are the major shield tanking race. (Not talking about proto suits here)
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Gooseman Manwhore
CREATURES OF THE NIGHT
32
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shields in this game just suck anyways. I'm amazed I see anyone play as Caldari anymore. I switched from Caldari Logistics to Amarr logistics after 1.8 and WOW what a difference! I live longer with more armor than I ever did with shields.
I put the sexi in dyslexia
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
5871
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Shields need some tweaking but in all honesty the Problem I'm seeing with a lot of shield tankers is that they want to play the game like armor tankers and you can't do that.
Caldari Naturally I feel should be tankier and a little bit slower to match what they are in EVE of course depending on what you modify the suit to do you can deviate a little bit to how you choose.
Minmatar need better Regenerative Abilities on both defenses but more so specialized on shields.
Think of it like this.
You have Gallente and Amarr, both armor tankers. Amarr are the brick tanks of the armor tankers and Gallente tends more towards active regeneration.
This is similar to the way Caldari and Minmatar should be respectively. Of course with lesser Hp values compared to armor but that's where things need to be.
I also feel that Minmatar suits should have a 1hp/s regen on armor on all suits.
DUST 514 (The 514 stands for the server ping)
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn
3295
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Posted - 2014.06.05 22:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The removal of the slowdown effect won't change the facts that:
- Shield Extenders are worthless at Basic and Enhanced Tiers
- Shield Extenders have ridiculous CPU/PG requirements.
- Lack of variety in Shield Extenders <---- That may be a personal problem though
Waiting out the changes won't prove otherwise either. I agree, a simple small hp buff would help a bit. I don't know about the CPU/PG being lowered, maybe a tiny bit of PG on Proto but I'm not the person to ask tbh. Before CPU/PG is looked at for extenders, I'd like to see what they do with assault CPU/PG changes in hotfix bravo.
Unrelated, but can we lower CPU/PG on dmg mods? Complex mods are a real pain to fit.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Your Absolut End
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad.
570
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Posted - 2014.06.05 22:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
I still think 300 HP of shields are worth more than 600 HP of armor, just because most of the crowd is running armor based weaponary like CR and RR or HMG.
Never wondered why you see way more Cal Scouts than Gal Scouts even before Hotfix Alpha? There u got ur reason, stacking plates on a gal scout was stupid before HAlpha and will remain so, that split second those 300 extra HP give u are worth nothing, and the speed penalty hurts just to much for a scout.
But lets see with the AR changes will bring over time
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Forlorn Destrier
2517
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Posted - 2014.06.05 22:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
For the record, I hate armor tanking and always have. Shield tanker til the end. Better regen, better speed, better counter vs the most popular weapons. |
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2399
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Posted - 2014.06.05 22:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
My main point is that the faster shield tanks are the better they perform with less buffer than armor. They can't just play with the broadside charging like armor styles do. |
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
5873
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Posted - 2014.06.05 22:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:My main point is that the faster shield tanks are the better they perform with less buffer than armor. They can't just play with the broadside charging like armor styles do. And that's the issue most of this playerbase has.
Most probably don't even know the defences have different characteristics from each other.
I've run across many bluedots in my two years here that didn't even know the different damage types affected each one differently, didn't even know that shield rechargers/regulators exist and some that didn't know armor made you slower.
That's just off the top of my head. I don't even want to know what the bluedot thinks that just sits in the passenger seat in an LAV and just stays there like an idiot.
DUST 514 (The 514 stands for the server ping)
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
793
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Posted - 2014.06.05 22:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shield stats need some changing, they aren't useful as they are now and the fitting requirements don't make much sense. I put a basic on because the only other choice is a 3% damage mod. I use an energizer on suits with high shields but there is no point to that if shields are below 200 or so.
Because, that's why.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens Final Resolution.
1972
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Posted - 2014.06.05 23:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
I have been saying it since for quite a while: Shields are in a terrible place. Atiim mentioned it first in this thread but it can be expanded on:
1. The fitting is downright atrocious. Basic: 18 / 3 Advanced: 36 / 6 Complex: 54 / 11 Extenders had these numbers back when Armor Plates were 10/1, 20/6, and 30/12. They cost 80% more CPU at all levels and only 9% (1) more PG at max level. Jeez, it was three times as much CPU at level 1! It was always that Shield was balanced for having lower numbers because they could passively recharge. I can agree on that. Let's say that movement speed and shield delay are equivilant. So you have a module giving the same amount of 'defense' as a Plate for a far higher cost. This is bad.
2. The scaling is terrible. Most people used Basic plates. 85 HP for 10/1 for only a small negative was overly good. Maybe Advanced plates but Basics are absolutely great in their own way for the amount of HP given. Extenders are not so:
Basic: 22 HP Advanced: 33 HP (50% increase from Basic) Complex: 66 HP (100% increase from Advanced, 200% increase from Basic)
No one really said that Complex Extenders were bad (other than the fitting) because 66 HP seemed about right, though maybe with the buff to Armor numbers it can be a little higher. The problem is that 22 HP and 33 HP is simply wasting a slot. Plates are quite linear all things considered. You are talking about Advanced having 29% more armor than Basic, Complex having 23% more than Advanced, and Complex having 59% more than Basic.
I honestly do not know what they were thinking with these numbers. The fitting costs are absolutely bonkers and the scaling is at the point of "use Complex or don't bother at all." It has needed to change for a while. The nerf to Armor Plates does not change the fact that the only useful Extenders are Complex and they are ludicrous to fit.
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