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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
1773
   |
Posted - 2014.06.05 21:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:This will be because the money that ccp basically put in a pile and burnt.
I'd say they are on 2 out of 3 strikes in their shareholders books.
Sht happens. I didn't think they were a public company so they don't have shareholders. The polygon article mentions investors which are sort of a different animal than shareholders, they don't own any part of the company, but they expect a return on their investment and will certainly not put any more money in if they don't like the direction the company is heading in. Aand who could like CCP's current direction? If CCP does have public shares it must be a penny stock. That's actually what I meant. I'm not used to being corrected, I am humbled. No worries my friend. Most people wouldn't know or care about the difference, I am just one of those people with a bit of (mostly useless) knowledge in multiple areas and is enough of an @sshole to point out such minutia whenever possible  . It is the responsibility of the enlightened ones to guide and teach the blind . I have a buddy who I chuck money at to make me a return now and then, nothing major but all knowledge is good knowledge.
Heres a tip.
Next years Roy on CCP is so bad that Roy (ROI) wants a name change to either Sam, Chuck or Larry. |
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
1704
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 21:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:This will be because the money that ccp basically put in a pile and burnt.
I'd say they are on 2 out of 3 strikes in their shareholders books.
Sht happens. I didn't think they were a public company so they don't have shareholders. The polygon article mentions investors which are sort of a different animal than shareholders, they don't own any part of the company, but they expect a return on their investment and will certainly not put any more money in if they don't like the direction the company is heading in. Aand who could like CCP's current direction? If CCP does have public shares it must be a penny stock. The sad or pathetic part is CCP barely cleared 76 million dollars for the entire year. Thats a terrible Return on Investment or ROI. Next years CCP financial statement is going to be popcorn worthy what with many investors jumping ship to Star Citizen.
Well exactly, the ROI is **** and thus investors are pissed. CCPs way of handling this is to cut costs (IE labor) because they have pretty much no way of actually raising revenue. You are right about next year's financials too because I don't see how CCP is going to raise revenue. Even if Valkyrie finishes and ships next year, what is the install base of Oculus and Morpheus going to be? Pretty ******* low I'd imagine, so you aren't going to recoup those development costs there. I can very much see CCP pushing Legion out the door ASAP (IE before its ready) so maybe they make a few quick bucks there but it will hurt the overall reputation and success of that game. They can grow the EVe subscription base, but really how many new players are you going to attract to Eve after 10 years and especially with a newer shinier more gamer friendly and less spread sheet warrior friendly Star Citizen out there?
So while part of my predictions for CCP closure or,at best, buy out by a publisher are out of pure spite, I honestly also cannot see a situation in which CCP is not royally ****** for at least the next couple years.
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
1775
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 21:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:This will be because the money that ccp basically put in a pile and burnt.
I'd say they are on 2 out of 3 strikes in their shareholders books.
Sht happens. I didn't think they were a public company so they don't have shareholders. The polygon article mentions investors which are sort of a different animal than shareholders, they don't own any part of the company, but they expect a return on their investment and will certainly not put any more money in if they don't like the direction the company is heading in. Aand who could like CCP's current direction? If CCP does have public shares it must be a penny stock. The sad or pathetic part is CCP barely cleared 76 million dollars for the entire year. Thats a terrible Return on Investment or ROI. Next years CCP financial statement is going to be popcorn worthy what with many investors jumping ship to Star Citizen. Well exactly, the ROI is **** and thus investors are pissed. CCPs way of handling this is to cut costs (IE labor) because they have pretty much no way of actually raising revenue. You are right about next year's financials too because I don't see how CCP is going to raise revenue. Even if Valkyrie finishes and ships next year, what is the install base of Oculus and Morpheus going to be? Pretty ******* low I'd imagine, so you aren't going to recoup those development costs there. I can very much see CCP pushing Legion out the door ASAP (IE before its ready) so maybe they make a few quick bucks there but it will hurt the overall reputation and success of that game. They can grow the EVe subscription base, but really how many new players are you going to attract to Eve after 10 years and especially with a newer shinier more gamer friendly and less spread sheet warrior friendly Star Citizen out there? So while part of my predictions for CCP closure or,at best, buy out by a publisher are out of pure spite, I honestly also cannot see a situation in which CCP is not royally ****** for at least the next couple years.
Whats even more fun is CCP is expecting to sell some offices/buildings for 50 million to raise some revenue but last I heard the folks with Capital are going to wait until next year to say 50M bro?? ....nah! 15 Million tops.
Popcorn worthy financials. |
Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
655
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:www.polygon.com/2014/6/5/5782190/ccp-iceland-layoffs-eve-online
Discuss?
Is it the end of the world?
I don't know how many people still work for CCP - but if they were all on fire....
I'd toast marshmallows....
Seriously though. **** em all. |
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
1705
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:This will be because the money that ccp basically put in a pile and burnt.
I'd say they are on 2 out of 3 strikes in their shareholders books.
Sht happens. I didn't think they were a public company so they don't have shareholders. The polygon article mentions investors which are sort of a different animal than shareholders, they don't own any part of the company, but they expect a return on their investment and will certainly not put any more money in if they don't like the direction the company is heading in. Aand who could like CCP's current direction? If CCP does have public shares it must be a penny stock. The sad or pathetic part is CCP barely cleared 76 million dollars for the entire year. Thats a terrible Return on Investment or ROI. Next years CCP financial statement is going to be popcorn worthy what with many investors jumping ship to Star Citizen. Well exactly, the ROI is **** and thus investors are pissed. CCPs way of handling this is to cut costs (IE labor) because they have pretty much no way of actually raising revenue. You are right about next year's financials too because I don't see how CCP is going to raise revenue. Even if Valkyrie finishes and ships next year, what is the install base of Oculus and Morpheus going to be? Pretty ******* low I'd imagine, so you aren't going to recoup those development costs there. I can very much see CCP pushing Legion out the door ASAP (IE before its ready) so maybe they make a few quick bucks there but it will hurt the overall reputation and success of that game. They can grow the EVe subscription base, but really how many new players are you going to attract to Eve after 10 years and especially with a newer shinier more gamer friendly and less spread sheet warrior friendly Star Citizen out there? So while part of my predictions for CCP closure or,at best, buy out by a publisher are out of pure spite, I honestly also cannot see a situation in which CCP is not royally ****** for at least the next couple years. In Iceland or Atlanta? Also, I'd be shopping the WoD rights or IP, whatever the proper term ours, sooner rather than later. I don't see how demand for a WoD game and thus value is going to go up over time, but I could be wrong. I'm not a market analyst Whats even more fun is CCP is expecting to sell some offices/buildings for 50 million to raise some revenue but last I heard the folks with Capital are going to wait until next year to say 50M bro?? ....nah! 15 Million tops. Popcorn worthy financials.
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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Gemini Cuspid
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
84
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Definitely not white-knighting the topic but I'll help to clarify a few things. The massive "write-off" and negative in their last balance sheet was from software that they once ascribed a specific value to and ended up axing. While it's not 100% confirmed most people are assuming that the reason for the huge negative in their profitability is that they basically wrote off WoD on their balance sheets after writing it as an asset in one of the prior years.
The employee layoff and reduction was expected as developers only dedicated to WoD are obviously not required. From a strictly business perspective they only did one thing wrong; they kept all of their executives on-board. This kind of implies the message that the status quo is pretty good at the top and I really would say it's far from that. You usually see a sacrificial lamb at this stage when disasters that the current level of executives are responsible and some sway in affecting.
This was a really good chance to add some new air and a face that could rebuild relationships between CCP and its larger community. Even in Japan where "being polite" and corporate seniority etiquitte dominate Sony canned and shifted roles. CCP may not be big but they aren't on the best track record right now for winning moves and if Legion is their "high point" it looks to be a rough, really rough year for them... |
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
1705
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gemini Cuspid wrote:Definitely not white-knighting the topic but I'll help to clarify a few things. The massive "write-off" and negative in their last balance sheet was from software that they once ascribed a specific value to and ended up axing. While it's not 100% confirmed most people are assuming that the reason for the huge negative in their profitability is that they basically wrote off WoD on their balance sheets after writing it as an asset in one of the prior years.
The employee layoff and reduction was expected as developers only dedicated to WoD are obviously not required. From a strictly business perspective they only did one thing wrong; they kept all of their executives on-board. This kind of implies the message that the status quo is pretty good at the top and I really would say it's far from that. You usually see a sacrificial lamb at this stage when disasters that the current level of executives are responsible and some sway in affecting.
This was a really good chance to add some new air and a face that could rebuild relationships between CCP and its larger community. Even in Japan where "being polite" and corporate seniority etiquitte dominate Sony canned and shifted roles. CCP may not be big but they aren't on the best track record right now for winning moves and if Legion is their "high point" it looks to be a rough, really rough year for them...
Nothing wrong with a different opinion, I enjoy a good discussion. In the spirit of such debate, the layoff of the solely WoD people already happened at cancellation and we already know (I believe) that non-WoD people were affected, CCP Eterne for example. I will have to accept your point on the WoD asset as my field isn't business and I'm not going to pour through that financial report and try and make sense of it. To me that comes down to weird bookmaking if it is true and I wonder how much the IP itself is valued at as an asset and if they do or do not count that in their financials even if the game itself and its projected revenue was written off as a loss.
I feel bad for it because these employees' lives are negatively impacted by all this, but I can't help but enjoy the soap opera of it all and interested to find out if I'm right or wrong about the future fate of CCP.
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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Canari Elphus
1685
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 01:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Its not the layoffs that I am worried about. Its the constant feedback from employees that CCP continually tries to reinvent the wheel and seems to have no direction.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Reviews-E159347.htm
Same thing was said by the WOD employees.
I have no more investment in the game (canceled EVE subs and such) but I hope that they can get their act together for those that still play and put money into it.
PSN - ShallowGravez - Destiny here we come...
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
751
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 03:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:To quote an article in The Guardian (the first quote is by Nick Blood, former dev and gamemaster at CCP): The Guardian wrote:So the team just ended up building stuff and throwing it away, over and over again. It's something I saw on Eve and Dust as well - the teams would build a feature, then be told by management to make GÇÿsmall changesGÇÖ which necessitated a full, back-to-square-one rewrite. The Guardian wrote:Most of the sources spoken to for this piece identified the same problematic CCP manager, who had little vision for what the finished game would look like [...] "I once saw him looking over the shoulder of a programmer at some bit of User Interface the poor guy had hacked together. He straightened up, put fingers to lips and said, GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ He hissed on his ******* fingertips, like the air coming out of a bicycle tire, and then just walked away." The Guardian wrote:Sources report that, over the nine-year period, the game effectively reached alpha GÇô the stage at which all the major features have been implemented - three times, only for each version to be scrapped. ^^ This is the company behind our beloved Dust. Filled with awesome talent wasted by ret@rded management. I am amazed that anyone still has faith in CCP. They have a history of misleading (at best) their consumers, and of reinventing the wheel. Godspeed all members of the "Mastur[...] Race". Hope you have fun with Legion, aka Dust Alpha 515.
This article and anything you read on glassdoor are to be taken with a massive grain of salt. These people are the bitterest of naysayers for CCP and while they may have some truth to what they say, I imagine it's exaggerated heavily.
CCP has a lot of management problems thanks to their big happy icelandic nepotism structure but this:
The Guardian wrote:"I once saw him looking over the shoulder of a programmer at some bit of User Interface the poor guy had hacked together. He straightened up, put fingers to lips and said, GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ He hissed on his ******* fingertips, like the air coming out of a bicycle tire, and then just walked away."
reads like grade A bullshit. If CCP has any problems it's that they can't criticize anything enough, not that they overly criticize. Finally, if you believe this one [imo nonexistant] manager hasn't been shown the door already you are huffing some powerful stuff.
A person gets let go under emotional circumstances or under the stress of taking a big risk by re-locating to take a job. The person decides to embellish the truth in an act of revenge against the employer. Not unreasonable at all.
Once again, nepotism and being unwilling to make hard decisions fast enough are CCP's problems. Not stuffy art major strawmen in management positions. |
Gemini Cuspid
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
86
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 04:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Gemini Cuspid wrote:Definitely not white-knighting the topic but I'll help to clarify a few things. The massive "write-off" and negative in their last balance sheet was from software that they once ascribed a specific value to and ended up axing. While it's not 100% confirmed most people are assuming that the reason for the huge negative in their profitability is that they basically wrote off WoD on their balance sheets after writing it as an asset in one of the prior years.
The employee layoff and reduction was expected as developers only dedicated to WoD are obviously not required. From a strictly business perspective they only did one thing wrong; they kept all of their executives on-board. This kind of implies the message that the status quo is pretty good at the top and I really would say it's far from that. You usually see a sacrificial lamb at this stage when disasters that the current level of executives are responsible and some sway in affecting.
This was a really good chance to add some new air and a face that could rebuild relationships between CCP and its larger community. Even in Japan where "being polite" and corporate seniority etiquitte dominate Sony canned and shifted roles. CCP may not be big but they aren't on the best track record right now for winning moves and if Legion is their "high point" it looks to be a rough, really rough year for them... Nothing wrong with a different opinion, I enjoy a good discussion. In the spirit of such debate, the layoff of the solely WoD people already happened at cancellation and we already know (I believe) that non-WoD people were affected, CCP Eterne for example. I will have to accept your point on the WoD asset as my field isn't business and I'm not going to pour through that financial report and try and make sense of it. To me that comes down to weird bookmaking if it is true and I wonder how much the IP itself is valued at as an asset and if they do or do not count that in their financials even if the game itself and its projected revenue was written off as a loss. I feel bad for it because these employees' lives are negatively impacted by all this, but I can't help but enjoy the soap opera of it all and interested to find out if I'm right or wrong about the future fate of CCP.
You kind of hit it a bit on the mark, that they had valued WoD IP and it was included as an asset. While some of it is an intangible it's still part of the larger IP related to WoD and I think i didn't clearly state it that while none of this is 100%confirmed, it seems to be the biggest thing that can account for the record keeping at CCP. So if we think of the IP for WoD having a value as a product [like it was intended to be] then that's an easy way going about it much like how companies get sued over software patents as they have an ascribed value.
I'd also say that while the WoD layoffs came before some ppl were reassigned in the initial announcements and I'm going on and simply extrapolating that even more people who were shifted are going bye either because of finalized redundant roles or what not. You're going to be right that it wasn't all WoD-related workers but I'm going on a limb and also thinking it was some of them whom were transferred over.
I just think that at some level they should've really made changes at the executive levels and brought in a person who can have made a positive change and culture. I think everyone is in agreement that things with Legion weren't ever handled properly. Bringing in someone that gamers from consoles to PC's would've respected could've gone a long way to bringing back some hope and having a sacrificial lamb might've made both investors and customers breath easier. |
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