| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
412
   |
Posted - 2014.06.02 21:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
the long awaited part 2 of our chat with CCP SaberWing, a lot gets said here guys it starts from where we left off from the last video, listen to what gets said by CCP SaberWing its actually very interesting and we even talk about the CPM0 and the CPM1's
sit down crack open a cold one guys and enjoy
DUST514 : The ChickenWing Chronicles part2
BEER TIME !
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15288
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 21:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Watching now.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
|
BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
413
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 00:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Watching now.
Edit
You and your cliffhangers!
just a little cliffhanger 
BEER TIME !
|
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
451
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 03:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'll probably come across fairly negative, and I guess I am really, but I will try hard to be constructive.
Bamm wrote:... before we move on and leave the subject [DUST, Fanfest and the keynote...debacle] in the past where it needs to be.
Really, this infuriated me more than it probably should have, but honestly, this just reeks of attempts to be politic while actually avoiding asking too hard a question: the Fanfest bullshit needs to be hammered home to CCP at every opportunity; it was an abject failure of communication, not only between staff (Rouge apparently thought that the round table immediately after the Keynote was to be streamed) but also with the community (because the Keynote was truly terrible and we should have known about Legion months prior) and with their own chosen representatives of the community (who told them not to announce Legion at Fanfest!)
To CCP: it cannot be stressed enough that your failure to communicate reasonably with us (the loyal, die hard fans) has utterly shattered everyone but the most gullible's faith in you. Only by demonstrating your ability through successful action will any measure of that faith be restored.
Saberwing wrote:[...] what is happening for DUST [...] we are gathering suggestions from the [CPM/Community]"
This was, allegedly happening since before the release of Uprising and while Rattati is doing a sterling job right now, why the hell did it rake until the absolute obliteration of your fan's faith for you to begin doing it right? I don't really expect an answer (to any of this, but this especially) but why was all of the Uprising feedback ignored until now? Why were the CPM ignored about the Legion reveal?
Saberwing wrote:We are trying to improve DUST as much as we can
Hotfix Alpha looks brilliant, really good work and I mean that sincerely, but why on earth is this happening now?! Right after tons of players let go of their end of the tether I n disgust and feeling betrayed is when you decided to involve the community?!
We should have been seeing Hotfix Alpha style feedback loops since at least Uprising! Ccp declaration of intent -> feedback on numbers and specifics -> revised declaration -> repeat. Excellent...why now?
Saberwing wrote:We're not abandoning the game.
Then why have we have clear and concise responses from Rattati telling us that some incredibly important features (PVE and Player Market for example) are not going to be implemented in DUST when they would not only add a great depth to the game that was initially marketed, but also actually help live up to the vision we all subscribed to?
Quite simply, this statement from Saberwing is entirely fallacious: CCP is not abandoning the game, instead they are performing last minute band aids in the hope that people will remain and spend a few more pennies. CCP is abandoning DUST, but they simply do not have the courage to say so.
We were promised, in CCP's ten year vision, a player market and several current features (salvage) is almost entirely predicated on the inclusion of a player market: without a way to sell off unwanted items, why give us random crap? Just give us a slightly higher ISK reward...or give us player trading!
Bamm wrote:Legion needs to be the next iteration of DUST
...no, it really doesn't. DUST is not the best game ever, but even in its current state it is not far from being a solid FPS: Hotfix Alpha is shaping up to bring a whole lot of erroneous numbers in line and doing some balance passes will even out plenty of kinks alone. P2P trading is not difficult: the framework exists in the Send Money utility, even if a system like EVE may be beyond DUST devs right now.
The fact that you focus on asking about the PS4 is great, because that is where DUST should be evolving to. CCP stated fairly early on that they wanted to appeal to a wider audience via then console market and the PS4 is the next logical step: PC is not necessary or even necessarily optimal.
Saberwing wrote:There's no cross play between [Legion and DUST], a lot of the things being developed for Legion are not coming to DUST.
Why the hell not?! Seriously, the DUST vision encapsulated exactly everything that Legion is sapping from the dev team. PVE, Player Market/Trading, open world, these are things within DUST's reach!
Booker wrote:Do your best programming on one platform then port over to others.
Yes! Exactly! But why not the goddamn PS4?! Many folks have assured me that the the PS4 architecture is a lot more PC-like...so why not focus on the next generation of consoles which will have a substantial lifespan unlike the PS3.
I definitely like the way Booker simply refers to the Fanfest announcement as rubbish: I appreciate unflinchingness in calling it by its real name.
Bamm wrote:The game we all want
...but not where all of us who originally bought in can participate.
There was some good stuff in there, but CCP is still awful in how it deals with its community. |
Michael Arck
4582
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 03:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
It has been "hammered home" for several weeks now. Here it is, a new month, and you wish to "hammer it home" more? Let's give a rest. All human beings are capable of mistakes. It's time that we move forward from that topic. If we keep "hammering it home" then we will be far too busy looking at the past instead of deciding how we move forward.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
SHOCKNOFSKY
H.Y.S.T.E.R.I.A
33
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 04:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would have received better info about the "future" of Dust 514 from an episode of Dr.Who |
Shiruba Ryou
272
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 05:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ...
This was very constructive and a worthwhile read. I haven't been in game for quite a decent span of time (since February if I recall correctly), but I can agree with the points made.
1.) I wouldn't go as far as "hammered". I would however not let it simply fade into the ether without recourse. The Fanfest announcement was, in my honest opinion, the 5th worse Company PR action in the last decade. Microsoft Vista launch and subsequent response being the 6th if that gives you any perspective.
Like VIsta, this has damaged trust with CCP. I believe that they should not be entirely condemned to the point that any recourse be denied them. I also believe that they should not be followed without a healthy dose of consideration, and then be judged fairly and objectively on their actions thus far . I bare no hate for CCP. But naivety is the name for the denial of consequence.
2.) I can not comment. I have no way of knowing exactly what they were were not doing. Nor do I know how they were were conducting themselves. I know what they said. And I know what did and did not result. That is all.
3.) Same thing. I know what they're saying now. We'll have to see the results.
4.) Abandonment is a vague term and I understand your conflict with the comment. Worst case scenario is as you say, abandonment for them could just mean that they do bug fixes every now and then like a side app and simply keep the game running. Again we have no choice but to wait and see or not wait at all.
5.) He could have been using iteration as word to mean: "repetition typically as a means of obtaining successively closer approximations to a solution". DUST is a CCP game, so to be honest their style is nothing more than iteration. Each patch being a step closer to achieving some vision they set out to make an actuality.
Your points are noted however. The addition of certain promised features would go a long way with the community. In fact, any form of trading would bring back a great number I assume. The point of a previous statement rings true; many half features of the game are utterly without purpose without trading or waste exchange of some sort.
Your point on the PS4 is has merit as well. And I will try to be as unbiased here as possible since I too own a PS4 and not a Gaming Computer. CCP has marketed this progressive game to an entirely new market, attracted them, given promised to an audience quite unaware of CCPs track record and practices, and no destroyed any trust they had attained through it. To follow that up with completely avoiding them is shameful, both as a company and ethically.
In my opinion, console players deserve CCPs further consideration and an eventual venue to Legion, either as a direct port, or a re-release or separate servers much like Warframe. I understand CCPs choice to return to PC to continue their attempt at making an FPS, but will summarize my views on the course I would take in their position: Do Legion, if they can get it done, make/port a PS4 version. Do not shutdown DUST514 until they confirm a PS4 version. This would give them the ability to try their game on their home front, then later bring their advertised audience back in to reap their progress.
6.) They are still 2 separate entities. That isn;t to say we can't hope for a PS4 version that will crossplay. But asking DUST currently to cross with their new PC version is asking to much. The coding required to do so would be out of CCPs abilities currently. This based on recent events. Their support isn't at an all time high to be attempting that.
7.) Again I agree that PS4 would be a hopeful venue later down the line. Developers have been praising the PS4 for it's ease of coding. And the large and fast expanding amounts of indie developers and rising teams emerging to flood Sony PSN is testament to this. Once CCP has gotten themselves back on track, I can see no reason why they could not bring DUST514: Legion back to console players.
8.) True and no comment though it does seem to be the case at least with us as of late.
"Not to worry. The cards say you loved it."
- Ryoutoshi
|
Firbolg Barun
Dust2Dust.
48
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 07:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP is a un-ethical company where the managers throughout the company don't have spines (hide behind NDA, delay info, backstab the community).
Your money is spent better elsewhere to be honest. |
BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
415
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 08:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
oh god 2 walls of text, what happened to picture books and crayons, reading now
BEER TIME !
|
BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
416
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 11:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:I'll probably come across fairly negative, and I guess I am really, but I will try hard to be constructive.
and constructive it was and you have some valid points there sir, but as I mentioned before if we hadn't adopted the approach of a friendly open chat, CCP SaberWing would have just left as this chat was done in his own time and I wouldn't have these videos to present to you. You catch more bees with honey rather than s h 1 t .
As much as it pains me to say this EVE:LEGION is the successor DUST 514  get onboard and hold on tight its going to be a bumpy, but what a ride.
BEER TIME !
|
|
|
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
454
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 12:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
BAMM HAVOC wrote:As much as it pains me to say this EVE:LEGION is the successor DUST 514 get onboard and hold on tight its going to be a bumpy, but what a ride.
Indeed, it seems that way.
Do you understand that, because I bought in on the PS3 (or, more reasonably, the console scene) because that is much more accessible to me, like many others and this betrayal is painful not just because of the terrible manner of it's delivery but also because I cannot follow?
Legion would have been infinitely better received if an 8 year with a speech impediment announced it in December whilst eating faeces, but that's not the issue: Legion looks to be everything we want, but its not how we we promised it (ie, on console) and that, compounded by CCP's unrelenting refusal to acknowledge their awesome failure of communication and apologise is why so many DUST players feel so passionately angry about the entire Legion debacle.
In essence: we (those jilted lovers) want DUST to be DUST, not some new game. The PS3 hardware is old, but others have wrung so much more from it that CCP - it's not a hardware thing then - so while CCP may have more experience with the PC architecture, we are now actually getting significant developer interaction through Rattati, why do we need Legion? We already know what DUST needs and making it good is within reach (balance passes primarily) but that means that long term stuff (maps, iterative PC/PVE, etc) is achievable, but CCP is unwilling to follow through on the promise.
In short, I, like many, CANNOT follow and this is why the issue is so hotly and violently contested. |
Wilhelm Klingspor
DUST University
Ivy League
253
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 20:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thanx for the vid, Asking the right questions, again with the cliffhanger...
Always nice to hear a dev talk about it in his own words in stead of short posts, ccp could do with more of the non typed way of getting things across. Also +1 to this booker dude for asking/sighing "what were you thinking?" although i highly doubt Saberwin and maybe even rouge had anything to do with the timing of the announcement.
Now where's that part 3, i still have halve a craft beer left
GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ DON'T PANIC GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
|
BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
417
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 20:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:
In short, I, like many, CANNOT follow and this is why the issue is so hotly and violently contested.
then join me and show CCP that there is a market for DUST 514 on the PS4 and join us there, im going to show CCP that there is a market on the PS4 ... im not sure how yet but I will
BEER TIME !
|
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
455
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
BAMM HAVOC wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:
In short, I, like many, CANNOT follow and this is why the issue is so hotly and violently contested.
then join me and show CCP that there is a market for DUST 514 on the PS4 and join us there, im going to show CCP that there is a market on the PS4 ... im not sure how yet but I will
Hah, with pleasure! Though I'm sorry if I have come across as annoyed at you: I'm just annoyed at CCP's disinterest. |
BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
422
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 22:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:BAMM HAVOC wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:
In short, I, like many, CANNOT follow and this is why the issue is so hotly and violently contested.
then join me and show CCP that there is a market for DUST 514 on the PS4 and join us there, im going to show CCP that there is a market on the PS4 ... im not sure how yet but I will Hah, with pleasure! Though I'm sorry if I have come across as annoyed at you: I'm just annoyed at CCP's disinterest.
I kinda figured that bit dude
BEER TIME !
|
Gemini Cuspid
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
84
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Not supporting Legion and not even being overly supportive of Dust. There's a degree of latitude that i apply the "how much can thee f**k up before I stop dealing with their bullsh!t" rule. I expect my burger to be messed up every so often at Burger King. I expect my grocery store to not always double-bag when they should because it is only a gallon of milk in a pretty crappy plastic bag.
There is nothing here thus far CCP or any developer can mount to their wall that says "we have GREAT, EXCITING EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE in making fps games". They can attest to tons of experience with mmo's but not the FPS genre. So they can say 'we are doing this which will be awesome" or "we know this works because based on our research". Was this the same stuff they deluded themselves when beginning Dust as well?
Yes it's a different head of the development team and yes they're taking it a different direction but my counter and only rebuttal was did it really, really require as mass exodus of both playerbase and rage to make these moves in the first place? They've broken a lot of hearts, goodwill, patience and, most importantly TRUST! A lot of us have been here since beta and we've been patient and it's not like anyone enjoys being backstabbed.
As I mentioned and posted before way too often, if Dust was more polished, was more functional, Legion wouldn't have been as taken with such ill will. But announcing stuff when Dust was in the condition it was in was like saying "we're jumping ship for greener pastures" and then the aftermath message "omgz we're sorry for the butthurt but we'll make these changes and continue to support us okay?".
My problem is does it take things to go this sour for action to be taken seriously? That was really the last nail in the coffin for me. Yea I'll continue to play Dust and I'm sure a bunch of white knights will say "don't post troll". But how many times have we made these suggestions and hammered it to home about hot fixes in the game? Anyone care to do a search because I'm sure as hell not the first. And that's the irony of it all; it takes this much escalation between a large amount of the community and the developers to actually see something when something as simple as a casual conversation would've sufficed. Thanks CCP, you were awesome in EvE but absolutely and horribly ****** in Dust and if you want to experiment and do all of this stuff in Legion, by all means. I'm not the only one who will never buy anything from CCP again or support them. And as I said in a prior post, I may be one customer but that's a customer you've lost for multiple purchases, game titles and future transactions as well. Same reason Dell has lost my business over my last 4 laptops and really all future laptops I will continue to buy; bad everything means I just take my dollar elsewhere. |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |