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Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
387
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
This has to happen in Legion for a few reasons, #1 being the fact that we cant create a safe zone for players to abuse ranged assets like the sniper rifle, turret and rail tank and prevent running away and hiding with tanks or dropships.
If safe zones are important to prevent spawn camping (and they are) then make the safe zones legitimate by first giving the MCC cannons for enemy players who get too close to the ship.
Next, give each team multiple spawn areas with bunkers, turrets and supply depots in addition to the MCC (preferably 2-3) put these points far on the flanks while the MCC is in the middle to lower the effectiveness of spawn camping.
Let's not reward non-participatory gameplay in Legion. If a person wants to snipe 600m away from the battle? fine. Give the enemy the ability to travel to that person by vehicle or foot without dying from phantom forces. This will prompt more balanced gameplay and will remove the crutch of players hiding in safe areas where the enemy isn't allowed. |
Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3326
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Posted - 2014.06.01 01:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm against removing the redline, and remain convinced despite your well written points.
My reaction to the idea of MCC guns idea was people creating an artificial redline, they'll just figure out the limit of the guns and wait.
[list=3]
I think if the redline is drawn correctly so that it gives no advantage terrain wise
Make it impossible to shoot in or out of the redline (prevents people killing your vehicles before you can land them)
Not being able to return to the redline after you exit it (think 5 seconds and you die instead of the 30 seconds)
Once you enter the redline (spawn or enter) there's a cumulative amount of time (meaning if you exit and reenter the redline you continue a countdown from say...1:30 to suicide
[/list]
That's just a quick brainstorm.
Alternatively, we could just implement a star hawk pod type deal (just had a fun debate in chat about starhawk pro's and cons' vs a redline)
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Hawk-eye Occultus
ARKOMBlNE
219
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Posted - 2014.06.01 01:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Or... For a touch of cruelty, make it so that all damage you deal while in the redline is redirected... TO YOU!
Shofixti beats an Ur-Quan Dreadnought and a Kor-Ah Marauder.
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2498
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Posted - 2014.06.01 02:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
How about we get rid of these gamemodes?................
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Hawk-eye Occultus
ARKOMBlNE
219
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Posted - 2014.06.01 03:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:How about we get rid of these gamemodes?................
You are aware that (in the context of the entire game), that the concepts of the Sandbox and game mode are not mutually exclusive?
Also, something that has been bugging me for a while, your ellipses are too long. They should contain three dots ( " ... " ), although uncommonly there can be a fourth.
And place punctuation AFTER the ellipsis.
e.g.
* I wonder...?
* How can you say that...!
Shofixti beats an Ur-Quan Dreadnought and a Kor-Ah Marauder.
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ZDub 303
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
3000
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Posted - 2014.06.01 04:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:How about we get rid of these gamemodes?................
Instant battles are still one of the strong points that Dust has over Eve. It would be senseless to remove that feature in Legion. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4325
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Posted - 2014.06.01 04:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:I'm against removing the redline, and remain convinced despite your well written points.
My reaction to the idea of MCC guns idea was people creating an artificial redline, they'll just figure out the limit of the guns and wait.
I think if the redline is drawn correctly so that it gives no advantage terrain wise
Make it impossible to shoot in or out of the redline (prevents people killing your vehicles before you can land them)
Not being able to return to the redline after you exit it (think 5 seconds and you die instead of the 30 seconds)
Once you enter the redline (spawn or enter) there's a cumulative amount of time (meaning if you exit and reenter the redline you continue a countdown from say...1:30 to suicide
That's just a quick brainstorm.
Alternatively, we could just implement a star hawk pod type deal (just had a fun debate in chat about starhawk pro's and cons' vs a redline)
Or just remove the redline, and make it so the capturing of all points results in faster destruction of the MCC so being camped is never really a thing. |
Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3328
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Posted - 2014.06.01 04:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've heard the idea many times where if you get 4 capped there should be a 3-5 minute timer initiated for you to capture a point, if not the game is over. Prevent long boring matches in skirm/dom where the teams are obviously imbalanced.
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4327
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 04:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:I've heard the idea many times where if you get 4 capped there should be a 3-5 minute timer initiated for you to capture a point, if not the game is over. Prevent long boring matches in skirm/dom where the teams are obviously imbalanced.
The way it works in classic battlefield is basically tickets start rapidly depleting once all points are captured. You can come back from it, but you have to snag something very quickly or you'll lose damn near instantly. It creates a sense of urgency even among bad players and demands people pull their heads out of their collective asses. |
DAMIOS82
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
123
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Posted - 2014.06.01 07:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
I believe redzones should remain, its there to allow safe entering of the game or of vehicle. If it wasn't for those redzones half of my hav would have been destroyed before i got to play with them and how long one remains there is there business. The best map example is Ashland Skirmish. As soon as the red's get redlined all blue berry's flock near E and base camp. If it wasn't for the redline or entry behind the buildings everybody that landed would get shotdown straight away. Now if they made the main bases like the OP said into a fortress and entry into the fortress is the redzone or so many meters outside of it then ok, that could perhaps work or even just put the redlines closer to the bases we have now, that would be better aswell. But it will encourage basecamping.
And putting something on timers is counter productive, since your payout is based on wp and time you spend ingame. So the shorter the less pay. |
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
1374
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Posted - 2014.06.01 07:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
The redlines are a result of poor map design. End of discussion.
Better map design = no need for redlines.
CPM1 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
387
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Posted - 2014.06.01 14:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Agree with Kevall, which is why I recommend more spawn options for each team. the redline has caused more problems than it fixes. I also agree with Zatara re: ending boring matches...if the opposition doesnt cap the objective within 5 minutes allow their MCC to be landed on/entered with air vehicles and destroyed a la titan mode in BF 2142.
make the XP and ISK gained from destroying the opponents MCC via this method significant. |
Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3331
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Posted - 2014.06.01 15:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Prius Vecht wrote:Agree with Kevall, which is why I recommend more spawn locations for each team. the redline has caused more problems than it fixes. I also agree with Zatara re: ending boring matches...if the opposition doesnt cap the objective within 5 minutes allow their MCC to be landed on/entered with air vehicles and destroyed a la titan mode in BF 2142.
make the XP and ISK gained from destroying the opponents MCC via this method significant.
Making more set spawn locations I feel like with no redline will still retain the problems of no redline with limited spawns.
you still provide a climate for spawn camping, difficult to bring in vehicles when they know where the limited amount of places you can call a vehicle in and thus camp you, etc.
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4331
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 16:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why should mechanics cater toward benefiting bad players instead of forcing bad players to get good like every other successful competitive game does?
Did you know it's actually possible to be suspended from League and DOTA if you are worthless enough?
Center the mechanics towards competition, but don't allow for torture to happen. Torture only happens when you drag something out that was decided long before it started. Magical redlines are nonsensical and take away player freedom and efficiency. |
Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3331
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Posted - 2014.06.01 16:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Appia brought up a revision of my assertion about pods dropping in IF you're adamant about no redline by suggesting you move the MCC above the flight ceiling and allows players to direct their flight paths when they jump out.
I love the idea.
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4331
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Posted - 2014.06.01 16:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Appia brought up a revision of my assertion about pods dropping in IF you're adamant about no redline by suggesting you move the MCC above the flight ceiling and allows players to direct their flight paths when they jump out.
I love the idea.
The MCC is supposed to be player controlled. What we have now a garbage placeholder system that is 100% visual.
We shouldn't keep operating on the assumption it will stay this way forever, nor should we be content with it.
And were it to upgrade to how its SUPPOSED to be, what you suggest would pretty much be in the cards except you'd have a slow moving MCC dropping people off with large guns as cover. |
Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3331
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 16:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Why should mechanics cater toward benefiting bad players instead of forcing bad players to get good like every other successful competitive game does?
Did you know it's actually possible to be suspended from League and DOTA if you are worthless enough?
Center the mechanics towards competition, but don't allow for torture to happen. Torture only happens when you drag something out that was decided long before it started.
Just because you get redlined doesn't mean your team is bad, just that they played bad or didn't execute.
Or perhaps because you don't have spawn links in a relevant location. Much like I'd go to the redline to call a derpship because it's more safe than calling one in where i have spawns in the city.
Punishing players with no redline and justifying it because "get gud scrubs" isn't solid ground to build an argument from. >.<;;
Balancing for player skill is absolutely a factor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4333
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 17:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
The desire FOR a redline is a symptom of a bad players being bad forever, though.
It's a crutch mechanic that is meant to allow bad players to hang out in limbo and flirt with the idea of actually playing the game rather than simply doing it.
Were bad players capable of being anything other than bad, there would be no need for such a thing. Simply end the game faster so they realize they are worthless in a timely manner, then start the next game. |
steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3140
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Posted - 2014.06.01 17:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
So if your bad at shooters you dont get to play? What an elitest attitude to have, what we need is a way for players who are not great slayers a useful role,
The one thing EvE does well everybody can have a role regardless of skill
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
745
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Posted - 2014.06.01 18:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:So if your bad at shooters you dont get to play? What an elitest attitude to have, what we need is a way for players who are not great slayers a useful role,
The one thing EvE does well everybody can have a role regardless of skill
I think the lack of redline will be more like "learn to play within these parameters" rather than " u dont get to play"
right now its a crutch that hurts gameplay and really hurts the tactical and objective side of shooters. as long as people can sit in a safe area and are rewarded for avoidance style gameplay they'll continue to do it.
Stay tuned for the largest community project ever! The Legion Whiteboard. Email us here: [email protected]
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