DUST Search - Dust to Legion skill point transfers

Meeko Fent wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Aran Abbas wrote:

That is to say, if we've accumulated a year of skill points in Dust, don't nerf us down to a month of skill points in Legion when we transfer. Why? Because what's being proposed with Legion is not another lobby shooter, but an open world MMOFPS. And just as with any other MMO there are safe places where the newbies start and very dangerous places where the higher level players hang out.

I did my time in Dust. I don't want my skill points nerfed so that I have to start in the newbie areas in Legion. I want to head straight to null sec. If it is absolutely necessary to make players "balanced" by nerfing our skill points, it means we're probably getting a lobby shooter all over again rather than the massive sandbox we've been promised. I have no intention nor desire to go to the safe areas to ruin a newbies day. Let them come to me in null sec when they're ready.

I would be extremely disappointed if they tried any heavy-handed attempt to force us back just so the PC players are happy.

Hmm...

It would make sense however. Remember when we went into open beta, and then the new guys were saying they were getting artifically weakened because we were here before.

And then we got our characters completely reset. There was no difference between them and us.

Imagine the shitstorm then if we keep our SP and ISK but the others are slapped with lolNewbie Skills. Its unfair and its mean to them. Why did they get that cookie? Because they played a (rather bad) PS3 game because they either bought one or had one?

Not saying we should get nothing for playing dust, but maybe a 1/4th of the DUST SP in legion. We'd have a 3 month headstart on the other players, but it would still be even enough that people won't **** themselves in anger.

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Aran Abbas Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 423	Posted - 2014.05.30 10:51:00 - [1] - Quote That is to say, if we've accumulated a year of skill points in Dust, don't nerf us down to a month of skill points in Legion when we transfer. Why? Because what's being proposed with Legion is not another lobby shooter, but an open world MMOFPS. And just as with any other MMO there are safe places where the newbies start and very dangerous places where the higher level players hang out. I did my time in Dust. I don't want my skill points nerfed so that I have to start in the newbie areas in Legion. I want to head straight to null sec. If it is absolutely necessary to make players "balanced" by nerfing our skill points, it means we're probably getting a lobby shooter all over again rather than the massive sandbox we've been promised. I have no intention nor desire to go to the safe areas to ruin a newbies day. Let them come to me in null sec when they're ready.
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 213	Posted - 2014.05.30 11:00:00 - [2] - Quote AMEN brother. Spread the word, mmmh hmmm! I think they are on this. It is the reason Dust didnt lift off ever after all. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
PLAYSTTION Universal Allies Inc. 142	Posted - 2014.05.30 11:32:00 - [3] - Quote BUMP BUMP BUMP YES this is war we need 44/4 in a BPO Scout 40/5 in a Proto Assault Open Beta Vet 22mil sp R.I.P Dust 514
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5285	Posted - 2014.05.30 11:59:00 - [4] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: That is to say, if we've accumulated a year of skill points in Dust, don't nerf us down to a month of skill points in Legion when we transfer. Why? Because what's being proposed with Legion is not another lobby shooter, but an open world MMOFPS. And just as with any other MMO there are safe places where the newbies start and very dangerous places where the higher level players hang out. I did my time in Dust. I don't want my skill points nerfed so that I have to start in the newbie areas in Legion. I want to head straight to null sec. If it is absolutely necessary to make players "balanced" by nerfing our skill points, it means we're probably getting a lobby shooter all over again rather than the massive sandbox we've been promised. I have no intention nor desire to go to the safe areas to ruin a newbies day. Let them come to me in null sec when they're ready. I would be extremely disappointed if they tried any heavy-handed attempt to force us back just so the PC players are happy.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1370	Posted - 2014.05.30 12:05:00 - [5] - Quote As would I. But I don't think it will happen. JC has been very clear that what footprints we've made in the sand should make it to legion. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 371	Posted - 2014.05.30 12:07:00 - [6] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: As would I. But I don't think it will happen. JC has been very clear that what footprints we've made in the sand should make it to legion. I'm not quite certain what you mean here; do you mean to say that they will, or that they won't, give us a comparable amount of SP in legion to what we've earnt in dust? MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Cyrus Militani 100	Posted - 2014.05.30 16:20:00 - [7] - Quote It's supposed to be comparable. If it isn't I'm going to be pissed. Will have to wait and see I guess.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 48	Posted - 2014.05.30 16:33:00 - [8] - Quote anything less than a MEANINGFUL transfer of our dust characters to legion is absolutely unacceptable, if they want to keep the player base they already have.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1371	Posted - 2014.05.30 19:10:00 - [9] - Quote I meant that the equivalent amount of SP in Dust will make it to Legion. We don't know yet what's happening about BPO's, I'm sure CPM0 and 1 when elected will get into that. ISK is more problematic as it might knacker up the fledging Legion player based market. We'll have to wait and see on that one. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Joey-Number1 Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven 104	Posted - 2014.05.30 19:57:00 - [10] - Quote Cyrus Militani wrote: It's supposed to be comparable. If it isn't I'm going to be pissed. Will have to wait and see I guess. In dust everything went too fast, you could have every kind of weapon learned to max (without proficiency) in matter of few days, that is wrong. It should take time and skill to what you really want to skill into, then it also gives you the sense that what you own you worked hard on and that it have some value. Its more important to talk about 'health' of the game rather than one's needs. Minmatar Logistics since the beginning. Mass Driver my first and the only fully specialized weapon. Explorer.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2199	Posted - 2014.05.31 01:10:00 - [11] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: anything less than a MEANINGFUL transfer of our dust characters to legion is absolutely unacceptable, if they want to keep the player base they already have. I completely agree, and it seems that CCP understand this as well. The specifics aren't released yet, because the actual game systems aren't in place yet, but persistence of SP seems to be something CCP is supporting. /incoming shameless plug It is certainly something I'll push for as a member of the community and (hopefully) CPM 1 rep/end shameless plug 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2014.05.31 06:07:00 - [12] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: I meant that the equivalent amount of SP in Dust will make it to Legion. We don't know yet what's happening about BPO's, I'm sure CPM0 and 1 when elected will get into that. ISK is more problematic as it might knacker up the fledging Legion player based market. We'll have to wait and see on that one. there are so few people with a ton of isk that it wont effect the market.... not to mention if the eve and legion markets are connect, eve players have trillions of isk... they can make what the average merc makes in a week in an hour...and if eve players can transfer isk to legion players well, then those trillions of isk will flood the legion market 10 fold over what the richest dust/legion player could do.... so no.... isk isn't the problem... our bpo's and sp are the major issues. let me also say that when eve 1st started the market was npc seeded.... legion could do the same keeping our influence over it at bay until things get moving...
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 273	Posted - 2014.05.31 13:31:00 - [13] - Quote SP can be tricky as I explained in the linked thread. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2182860#post2182860 They can't just look at the total amount, but have to take into consideration active playtime, boosters etc. If you have 30mil SP in Dust and want 30mil in Legion, then I think you will be disappointed. With that said, I think CCP will make sure we are well compensated for our time in Dust.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2199	Posted - 2014.05.31 17:55:00 - [14] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: SP can be tricky as I explained in the linked thread. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2182860#post2182860 They can't just look at the total amount, but have to take into consideration active playtime, boosters etc. If you have 30mil SP in Dust and want 30mil in Legion, then I think you will be disappointed. With that said, I think CCP will make sure we are well compensated for our time in Dust. SP is not tricky, it'll be a simple 1:1 ratio with a possible algorithmic conversion applied if Legion uses differing skill multipliers. Anything less than a full value transfer for all characters results in extra development resources being diverted into unneeded restrictions while also increasing the likelihood that player investment of time and/or money is stripped away and made non-persistent. This removal of player investment (at the cost of additional development resources no less) is simply unacceptable. From the example in your quote I am both A & B (there was a span when I was out of town without net due to visiting relatives... CCP, rollover system on the cap for Legion, yes?). Speaking as someone who's done both, and who has spoken with people across various playstyles it is vastly prefreible that some players who may have opted out of Dust for awhile get SP in Legion and thus give it a try (yes even if they are "C" SP gainers) than to spend development resources on excluding them or to increase the risk that other players are excluded. Obviously even your example is an edge case representation and the real application becomes shades of gray. Ex: Player D has hardly logged in and hasn't spent a dime on Dust since Live Release; in closed however he spent over a grant on AUR, capped out every day, and had community interaction. Does he get nothing because during live he fits your criteria for "C" or does he get everything because during Closed he fits your criteria for A & B? Player E, created a character at live launch, played for 2.5 months and then was called overseas for work. Has been away for an extended span without access to a PS3 but has avidly followed the game and its progression. Is looking forward to playing Legion and is pleased to have a bit of SP built up even though he was unable to play Dust as much as he wanted. Most of his SP is passive and he hasn't been able to play in months, should player E get nothing? Player F, has the same profile as your player A, but has never spent a dime on the game and has stated that he will not, does he still retain his SP or is he below the cut off line and becomes an example of player C? Player G, has a 5 month old character, and has played casually in intermittent intervals for a total of 2 weeks average play from 'player B' style playing. Doesn't show up often, SP is overwhelmingly from passive gains, but he still plays the game. Does player G deserve nothing? Player H, has played actively on two characters, never spent a dime, and left all passives on a third character (he's using all three slots). He is active, but at a casual level over the two characters, which of these alts, if any, would retain their SP under your proposal? Player I, 2 year old character, plays very rarely, mostly just a few matches after every update to see where balance stands. Loves the possibilities and concept offered by Dust-Legion but finds the current iteration of the game too limiting or frustrating in some way to play actively at this time. Has still been involved in the game since closed beta and hasn't given up on the idea, he's just waiting and keeping an eye on things until they really live up to their potential. Does he deserve nothing? End of the day When it comes right down to it, players who aren't actually going to play Legion won't gain anything from having played Dust. Many won't even transfer their characters. The few edge cases where someone will gain an advantage from a 'passive ride' are so minimal in implication that they're not worth disenfranchising members of the community (or spending development dollars) on seeking to avoid. 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3553	Posted - 2014.05.31 18:11:00 - [15] - Quote From everything I have heard the intend is to transfer Skill Points equivalently so that the equivalent of a year in DUST will transfer as a yearGÇÖs worth of skill points in Legion. I have heard no talk from the Devs or from CPM0 of any skill point nerfs on transfer. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3553	Posted - 2014.05.31 18:27:00 - [16] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: SP can be tricky as I explained in the linked thread. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2182860#post2182860 They can't just look at the total amount, but have to take into consideration active playtime, boosters etc. If you have 30mil SP in Dust and want 30mil in Legion, then I think you will be disappointed. With that said, I think CCP will make sure we are well compensated for our time in Dust. You can normalize the effect of boosters and active play by simply dividing your total SP by the accrual rate of passive skill point gain in DUST to get an GÇ£equivalentGÇ¥ time played. That is, you may have a 2 year old character, but due to boosters and active play it is the GÇ£equivalentGÇ¥ of a 3 year old character using only passive skill point accrual. Then multiply your GÇ£equivalentGÇ¥ time played (3 years in the example) by the passive skill point gain in Legion, and you get an equivalent amount of Skill Points in Legion to what you had in DUST. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2052	Posted - 2014.05.31 19:44:00 - [17] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Aran Abbas wrote: That is to say, if we've accumulated a year of skill points in Dust, don't nerf us down to a month of skill points in Legion when we transfer. Why? Because what's being proposed with Legion is not another lobby shooter, but an open world MMOFPS. And just as with any other MMO there are safe places where the newbies start and very dangerous places where the higher level players hang out. I did my time in Dust. I don't want my skill points nerfed so that I have to start in the newbie areas in Legion. I want to head straight to null sec. If it is absolutely necessary to make players "balanced" by nerfing our skill points, it means we're probably getting a lobby shooter all over again rather than the massive sandbox we've been promised. I have no intention nor desire to go to the safe areas to ruin a newbies day. Let them come to me in null sec when they're ready. I would be extremely disappointed if they tried any heavy-handed attempt to force us back just so the PC players are happy. Hmm... It would make sense however. Remember when we went into open beta, and then the new guys were saying they were getting artifically weakened because we were here before. And then we got our characters completely reset. There was no difference between them and us. Imagine the shitstorm then if we keep our SP and ISK but the others are slapped with lolNewbie Skills. Its unfair and its mean to them. Why did they get that cookie? Because they played a (rather bad) PS3 game because they either bought one or had one? Not saying we should get nothing for playing dust, but maybe a 1/4th of the DUST SP in legion. We'd have a 3 month headstart on the other players, but it would still be even enough that people won't **** themselves in anger. Because you wanted to be something you're not.
Aran Abbas Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 427	Posted - 2014.05.31 19:57:00 - [18] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Hmm... It would make sense however. Remember when we went into open beta, and then the new guys were saying they were getting artifically weakened because we were here before. And then we got our characters completely reset. There was no difference between them and us. Imagine the shitstorm then if we keep our SP and ISK but the others are slapped with lolNewbie Skills. Its unfair and its mean to them. Why did they get that cookie? Because they played a (rather bad) PS3 game because they either bought one or had one? Not saying we should get nothing for playing dust, but maybe a 1/4th of the DUST SP in legion. We'd have a 3 month headstart on the other players, but it would still be even enough that people won't **** themselves in anger. It makes sense if we assumed Legion is just going to be just another lobby shooter (which may be true given CCP's broken past promises). Dust alpha > beta needed a skill wipe because it was a lobby shooter where newbies and vets alike were forced into the same environment given no differentiated environments existed. Legion is supposed to run the full gamut from high sec planets to null sec planets. In theory, there is huge differentiation and choice with regards to where we are able to go and hunt, and I envision Dust vets will head out to null sec where the best loot is. Assuming CCP don't break yet another promise and give us just a lobby shooter again.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8725	Posted - 2014.05.31 20:50:00 - [19] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Aran Abbas wrote: That is to say, if we've accumulated a year of skill points in Dust, don't nerf us down to a month of skill points in Legion when we transfer. Why? Because what's being proposed with Legion is not another lobby shooter, but an open world MMOFPS. And just as with any other MMO there are safe places where the newbies start and very dangerous places where the higher level players hang out. I did my time in Dust. I don't want my skill points nerfed so that I have to start in the newbie areas in Legion. I want to head straight to null sec. If it is absolutely necessary to make players "balanced" by nerfing our skill points, it means we're probably getting a lobby shooter all over again rather than the massive sandbox we've been promised. I have no intention nor desire to go to the safe areas to ruin a newbies day. Let them come to me in null sec when they're ready. I would be extremely disappointed if they tried any heavy-handed attempt to force us back just so the PC players are happy. Hmm... It would make sense however. Remember when we went into open beta, and then the new guys were saying they were getting artifically weakened because we were here before. And then we got our characters completely reset. There was no difference between them and us. Imagine the shitstorm then if we keep our SP and ISK but the others are slapped with lolNewbie Skills. Its unfair and its mean to them. Why did they get that cookie? Because they played a (rather bad) PS3 game because they either bought one or had one? Not saying we should get nothing for playing dust, but maybe a 1/4th of the DUST SP in legion. We'd have a 3 month headstart on the other players, but it would still be even enough that people won't **** themselves in anger. Well, here's the thing. A lot of those Dust newbies who faced the veterans were dedicated console players. Many of which never played a PC game or no longer want to for whatever reason they come up with. Those people are use to playing in fair games with fair mechanics. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.


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