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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
386
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Posted - 2014.05.27 07:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here is the thing. In FW and Skirm I like to camp the home objective solo if I'm up against a tough crowd. I run a proto min scout and normally do 2 complex Dampeners and 1 enhanced/complex kinkat with 3 complex shields. I'm paper thin. But it is too avoid all of the passive and active scanners.
That being said, I relied on my cloak to keep me under a 18db (cal scout with 2 complex prec enhancers). Now I have to take out the kinkat (sometimes I use armor plate) and put another dampener. I have to use 3 dampeners to stay under the radar.
Basically, I'm only going to use cloak when I'm camping to protect an objective otherwise I think i'm gonna run without it and be more helpful. 3x Dampeners when Camping an objective or 2x when running normal scout type tactics.
Anyone else come up with a side plan given the dampening nerf?
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5574
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Posted - 2014.05.27 07:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Do what I'm doing.
Keep calling for a better fix - rebalancing other EWAR elements and giving back 10 to 15% dampening bonus across the board on cloaks.
At present, having a partial bonus only on the higher-tier gear is CCP moving back towards tier advantage while the playerbase has been clamouring for tiericide. |
Louis Domi
Pradox One Proficiency V.
325
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Posted - 2014.05.27 09:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cal scout here, running 3 precision enhancers, and 2 range amps. I scan you so far you and your damps cant do a thing, also being dampened is not needed since i scan you from so far that even if you do see me on your radar, I've come up with a plan to drop you quick. I have scanned cloaked scouts as well. |
Sir Dukey
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
947
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Posted - 2014.05.27 10:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Here is the thing. In FW and Skirm I like to camp the home objective solo if I'm up against a tough crowd. I run a proto min scout and normally do 2 complex Dampeners and 1 enhanced/complex kinkat with 3 complex shields. I'm paper thin. But it is too avoid all of the passive and active scanners.
That being said, I relied on my cloak to keep me under a 18db (cal scout with 2 complex prec enhancers). Now I have to take out the kinkat (sometimes I use armor plate) and put another dampener. I have to use 3 dampeners to stay under the radar.
Basically, I'm only going to use cloak when I'm camping to protect an objective otherwise I think i'm gonna run without it and be more helpful. 3x Dampeners when Camping an objective or 2x when running normal scout type tactics.
Anyone else come up with a side plan given the dampening nerf?
why not dump the whole cloak, 45 seconds max isn't enough to do jack.. |
SirManBoy
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
575
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Posted - 2014.05.27 11:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Eko Sol wrote:Here is the thing. In FW and Skirm I like to camp the home objective solo if I'm up against a tough crowd. I run a proto min scout and normally do 2 complex Dampeners and 1 enhanced/complex kinkat with 3 complex shields. I'm paper thin. But it is too avoid all of the passive and active scanners.
That being said, I relied on my cloak to keep me under a 18db (cal scout with 2 complex prec enhancers). Now I have to take out the kinkat (sometimes I use armor plate) and put another dampener. I have to use 3 dampeners to stay under the radar.
Basically, I'm only going to use cloak when I'm camping to protect an objective otherwise I think i'm gonna run without it and be more helpful. 3x Dampeners when Camping an objective or 2x when running normal scout type tactics.
Anyone else come up with a side plan given the dampening nerf? why not dump the whole cloak, 45 seconds max isn't enough to do jack..
You're out of your mind. 45 seconds is enough time to jack an entire squad's worth of mercs.
The cloak is getting balanced, not destroyed. You really should ask yourself if a piece of equipment is truly fair when all of sudden an entire class sees a 500% increase in its efficacy over night. The cloaks should have made your class relevant, not dominant. You were never supposed to be able to relive your favorite scenes from Predator, bro. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5575
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Posted - 2014.05.27 11:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:You really should ask yourself if a piece of equipment is truly fair when all of sudden an entire class sees a 500% increase in its efficacy over night. The cloaks should have made your class relevant, not dominant. You were never supposed to be able to relive your favorite scenes from Predator, bro. You're right.
They only added cloaks to make Scouts better. They didn't over-buff some Scout suit's PG and CPU, add an extra equipment slot to all of them, reduce our base scan profile massively and buff our precision slightly with it, or improve the slot layouts on the existing Scouts while adding new ones with comparable slot layouts as well.
No other change contributed to the improvements Scouts are seeing at all. Clearly.
Cloaks weren't OP before the nerf. They were borderline AT WORST, and now they've been over-nerfed, but Scout suits themselves are still in need of some attention to bring them back in line.
Certain cloaked Scouts were OP with 1.8's release because of the slightly higher-tier nature of the initial rollout of cloaks, AND because of the over-buffing of certain elements of some Scout suits, AND because of several glitches (primarily revolving around the cloak) making the combination perform better than it should in the hands of players who like to exploit such things. |
Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1222
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Posted - 2014.05.27 11:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
While I'm skilled to proto on my minmatar scout, I generally run the M/1. So of my current fits, exactly 0 get under a dual precision Cal.
Instead of running a triple dampened proto fit and still getting scanned by triple precision Cal and Gal logi's, I've decided to try extreme range sniping. I'm adapting!
Knowledge is power
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1561
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Posted - 2014.05.27 12:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:At present, having a partial bonus only on the higher-tier gear is CCP moving back towards tier advantage while the playerbase has been clamoring for tiericide. I do believe you are projecting a bit there Garrett. Sure some of the playerbase has been asking for tiericide, but speaking from a completely unbiased standpoint that segment of the population as far as I can tell represents well under 50%. As you are squarely on the tiericide end of the argument, allow me to refresh you on the concerns of the other side. I can see the advantages of tiericide clearly, but the unmentioned changes it would bring cause a lot of people to feel disconcerted about it. Consider this an opportunity to share with the community how things would change.
Here are the concerns I can think of for people against tiericide:
I can see how removing tiers would negate the benefits earned by those who have dedicated copious amounts of time to this game.
It would no doubt once again lead to a massive outcry for a complete respec.
Would skills still passively buff your dropsuits?
And if so, why? Because if the idea is to flatten the playing field by removing tiers, passive skills unbalance it almost as much as tiers when added together collectively.
And if not, then leveling a skill beyond the level you need to in order to unlock what you want would become non-existent. Is this an intended effect? And what are you supposed to do with your SP when there are no more skills you want to unlock?
One last bit. If tiers are flattened, then what is the point of having to spend so much SP to max out a skill? Even if you still get passive skills from it, that last 700,000ish SP on a 5x (I think that's right, too tired to load Dust and look it up) skill for a 3% bump isn't worth it. So what is there to make leveling those skills up worth the time investment grinding out that SP?
Once again, I'm neutral on this. I can take tiericide or leave it, either way the game still has an interesting system. As for NPE and overall balance between all players tiericide is the way to go, but for rewarding dedication and hard work of the playerbase it isn't. I'm just trying to make sure the right questions are asked in order to be sure people aren't making assumptions when writing rage posts about it.
Also, please forgive any misspellings or confusing sentences, I've been up for 22 hours and I'm fading fast.
Your welcome to add me on PSN, just give your Dust name in the request.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed.
802
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Posted - 2014.05.28 01:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
EVERYONE does NOT want tiericide .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5591
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Posted - 2014.05.28 05:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
There have been a LOT of people calling for tiericide.
Personally, I myself am NOT wanting full tiericide.
What I want is to keep only minor differences between tiers. It makes sense to give benefit to higher-skilled characters through both passive skill bonuses AND the gear itself. It's good to encourage people to skill up and get good gear because it's better. BUT there needs to be a decent balance between top-end and bottom-end gear. It shouldn't be enough to make a legitimately skilled player lose to a legitimately unskilled player. Rebalancing cloaks this way means that the only viable model will be the Prototype model. Rebalancing Locus Grenades the same way was a terrible decision for the same reason.
While not everyone agrees with tiericide in full, nobody I've spoken to actually wants to see CCP promoting protostomping like they seem to be doing now.
But over my (very long) time in DUST, there have been huge amounts of people requesting tiericide, and even larger amounts of people agreeing with those calls. The majority of people who have commented one way or the other HAVE been saying they want tiericide to at least some degree. Not all of them have wanted complete tiericide where Proto gear has no advantages over Militia, but there have been VERY few people who have EVER wanted to see LARGER gaps between tiers than we had before Alpha. |
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Eruditus 920
Prodigy Ops
120
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Posted - 2014.05.28 06:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
I am thinking about just jettisoning the cloak completely.
The fitting requirements were always prohibitive even with the bonus but reducing cloak time to 15 sec and removing the damp bonus makes it not worth it. It will be a novelty and I think most will eventually dump it. The fitting requirements for the advanced are ridiculous. I thought it added a really fun dynamic to the game play and never minded getting killed by a cloak.
Just shows you how utterly incompetent CCP is at managing this game that they would introduce a completely new and innovative dynamic in the cloak and then basically make it irrelevant in only two months. How can you be that off on your stats?
Oh well, at least I don't have to hear all the belly aching about cloaks anymore.
Fatties, enjoy your time now because they will come for you next. Once the complaining stops about cloaks, everyone will look for a new scapegoat for their frustrations. And the forums run this MF'er.
And around and around we go. Clueless...
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we should grow too fond of it."
-Robert E. Lee
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1764
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Posted - 2014.05.28 07:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:SirManBoy wrote:You really should ask yourself if a piece of equipment is truly fair when all of sudden an entire class sees a 500% increase in its efficacy over night. The cloaks should have made your class relevant, not dominant. You were never supposed to be able to relive your favorite scenes from Predator, bro. You're right. They only added cloaks to make Scouts better. They didn't over-buff some Scout suit's PG and CPU, add an extra equipment slot to all of them, reduce our base scan profile massively and buff our precision slightly with it, or improve the slot layouts on the existing Scouts while adding new ones with comparable slot layouts as well. No other change contributed to the improvements Scouts are seeing at all. Clearly. Cloaks weren't OP before the nerf. They were borderline AT WORST, and now they've been over-nerfed, but Scout suits themselves are still in need of some attention to bring them back in line. Certain cloaked Scouts were OP with 1.8's release because of the slightly higher-tier nature of the initial rollout of cloaks, AND because of the over-buffing of certain elements of some Scout suits, AND because of several glitches (primarily revolving around the cloak) making the combination perform better than it should in the hands of players who like to exploit such things.
Get a wood working hobby as that solves the too much free time. Also selling items produced by a woodworking hobby fixes the broken Dust 514 problem via a PS4 and PS4 games. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5593
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Posted - 2014.05.28 09:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Get a wood working hobby as that solves the too much free time. Also selling items produced by a woodworking hobby fixes the broken Dust 514 problem via a PS4 and PS4 games. I suck at making things, whether from wood or other materials.
I have a good variety of hobbies that aren't gaming, and a large collection of PS3 and PC games that aren't DUST. I don't see why I need another gaming console instead of the new PC I'm currently saving up for.
I also don't see how changing my habits to ones which don't suit my interests or skills as well as what I already do is helpful. And finally, I really don't see how it's relevant to the discussion at hand. Feel free to make a comment that's actually on-topic next time, so my next reply can be constructive instead of merely a disassembly of your own failure to address anything relevant to the conversation. |
boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
645
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Posted - 2014.05.28 11:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
people calling for tiericide who dont know what it means.
its simply a means of making sure that each class of ship vcan compete with another ship in the same class. ie rifter vs punisher.
and that tiericide actully made it harder to get into the higher end ships such as t2 frigates.
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RendonaSix
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
82
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Posted - 2014.05.28 12:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
So much fail.
The cloak will be more situational.
Scouting since beta.
Get good newbs.
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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BDiD
HEAVY LOGISTIC OPERATIONS
12
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Posted - 2014.05.28 13:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Do what I'm doing.
Keep calling for a better fix - rebalancing other EWAR elements and giving back 10 to 15% dampening bonus across the board on cloaks.
At present, having a partial bonus only on the higher-tier gear is CCP moving back towards tier advantage while the playerbase has been clamouring for tiericide.
Only ppl that complain about tiericide are noobs. I played beta, so what i have proto everything. It's proto stomp\tiericide? No its progression and specin the right fits and suites with the right guns. While some of you can only use advanced gear, well we were all there once. |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
393
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Posted - 2014.05.28 21:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Do what I'm doing.
Keep calling for a better fix - rebalancing other EWAR elements and giving back 10 to 15% dampening bonus across the board on cloaks.
At present, having a partial bonus only on the higher-tier gear is CCP moving back towards tier advantage while the playerbase has been clamouring for tiericide.
_
I like what they are doing. The cloak has made bad players perform well. It's a "win" button for bad players and bad playing styles.
Everyone has to grind it out to get what they want. It's up to Vets to guide new people toward specialized categories the first 4 to 8 mil SP. Because of that, Tier advantage should exist. I've done some PC as of late and I understand why tiercide would be a problem. It isn't the gear that makes winners and good players.
_
Louis Domi wrote:Cal scout here, running 3 precision enhancers, and 2 range amps. I scan you so far you and your damps cant do a thing, also being dampened is not needed since i scan you from so far that even if you do see me on your radar, I've come up with a plan to drop you quick. I have scanned cloaked scouts as well.
_ This is wrong. When I run two complex Dampeners and I am cloaked (with the current 25% damp bonus) you will not see me with 3 precision enhancers. This was the point of my thread. It was to mention that I have to come up with some alternative. Given the revised version has added 7.5% to ADV cloak and 15% to proto cloak you still won't see me on tacnet.
For the record, any scout with a complex precision enhancer has scanned cloak scouts. _
Sir Dukey wrote:
why not dump the whole cloak, 45 seconds max isn't enough to do jack..
_ I have a couple of fits where I do this. I run compact hives and RE's. Now I might just run complex armor rep b/c of the nerf to PG/CPU requirements so I might drop the compact hives altogether. Unfortunately, I disagree with your second statement. 45 seconds is ALOT of time. And the proto has been finalized at 40s for the record. I run basic cloak already for 80% of the time. If 30s is enough then 30s or 45s will be enough. -
Garrett Blacknova wrote:You're right. They only added cloaks to make Scouts better. They didn't over-buff some Scout suit's PG and CPU, add an extra equipment slot to all of them, reduce our base scan profile massively and buff our precision slightly with it, or improve the slot layouts on the existing Scouts while adding new ones with comparable slot layouts as well. No other change contributed to the improvements Scouts are seeing at all. Clearly. Cloaks weren't OP before the nerf. They were borderline AT WORST, and now they've been over-nerfed, but Scout suits themselves are still in need of some attention to bring them back in line. Certain cloaked Scouts were OP with 1.8's release because of the slightly higher-tier nature of the initial rollout of cloaks, AND because of the over-buffing of certain elements of some Scout suits, AND because of several glitches (primarily revolving around the cloak) making the combination perform better than it should in the hands of players who like to exploit such things.
_ I agree with this as well. They basically made a win button for bad players and made an even more "win" button for already good players. They need to get rid of an equipment slot and a module slot on all suits except amarr b/c it's missing a module slot already IMO. _
Eruditus 920 wrote:I am thinking about just jettisoning the cloak completely...
_ After reading the new numbers I think there is value in the proto cloak and I will likely use it for some of my strategies. I'm going to have to experiment though and get my Electronics/Engineering from 4 to 5. I've been able to fit the ADV cloak without an issue but the proto would be quite costly to my current fits. I have to do some math and dedicate some time to trying out the new stuff. -
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
1766
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Posted - 2014.05.28 22:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Get a wood working hobby as that solves the too much free time. Also selling items produced by a woodworking hobby fixes the broken Dust 514 problem via a PS4 and PS4 games. I suck at making things, whether from wood or other materials. I have a good variety of hobbies that aren't gaming, and a large collection of PS3 and PC games that aren't DUST. I don't see why I need another gaming console instead of the new PC I'm currently saving up for. I also don't see how changing my habits to ones which don't suit my interests or skills as well as what I already do is helpful. And finally, I really don't see how it's relevant to the discussion at hand. Feel free to make a comment that's actually on-topic next time, so my next reply can be constructive instead of merely a disassembly of your own failure to address anything relevant to the conversation.
Saveing up for a new PC?
Theres this thing called a job. A job generates money that is used to purchase items or services.
When the job does not generate sufficient money then the typical response is to try other some other hobby to generate positive cash flow instead of posting on a forum that generates negative cash flow.
It can be producing an item or generating a service such as a mundane marriage counselor that boils down to just being willing to listen to a married couple argue a bit to the tune of 20 dollars per hour to 200 dollars per hour depending on the office decor.
Or the hobby can be something cool like melting aluminium to pour down into an ant nest to then sell the resulting sculptures for a good amount of positive cash flow.
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
393
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Posted - 2014.05.29 01:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
I put numbers here for dampening:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2183751#post2183751
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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