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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2082
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Posted - 2014.05.26 19:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
I keep being shot at by swarmers who have no idea you need to use skill to fight with swarms. So this video has tips from the dropships perspective and some analysis; and even one of my two most secret dropship maneuvers.........
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Chimichanga66605
Myrmidon Syndicate
123
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Posted - 2014.05.26 20:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
As always, sweet video. I run Python (part-time, no where in your league) & SL MinCommondo regularly. Thanks for the tips on both fronts.
"Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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THUNDERGROOVE
The Last of DusT.
846
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Posted - 2014.05.26 20:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
I watched this yesterday when you uploaded it. Judge thank you.
People don't realize that swarms require a half decent amount of thinking to use effectively.
TDBS
Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2084
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Posted - 2014.05.26 20:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:I watched this yesterday when you uploaded it. Judge thank you.
People don't realize that swarms require a half decent amount of thinking to use effectively.
You are right. Still , I do feel they need a slight effectiveness change. Also, thanks for watching my channel. The Legion announcement lost us many players. Loyal ones like you make this worthwhile.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Will Driver
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
59
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Posted - 2014.05.26 20:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks for your video, Judge. I'm a fan.
Dropships seem to be able to outrun my swarms with elevation changes. From my position, eventually I see the missiles explode before making contact. This simple dropship maneuver can be repeated indefinitely whereas I will run out of ammo, so my ability to engage is much more limited.
This is not a particularly skillful dropship tactic, but it is effective. I do think there should be an escape zone, but it's currently too easy to escape and think it should be adjusted by making swarm missiles travel more quickly.
BTW, thanks for the tips. I haven't noticed the turn and fire maneuver, it mostly seems dropships fly straight on, but I'll link for that more closely now that I've seen your video.
GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥
GÇò Albert Einstein
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DJINN GITAXIS
Sebiestor Field Sappers
Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
?? "fire and forget rockets of death" ??
In it's current state you clearly turned this into the "thinking man's anti-vehicle weapon" in order to be effective.
Curious why you didn't showcase yourself turning on a hardener and face tanking prototype swarms.
Instead we got to see you perform a maneuver very few ADS pilots do to avoid swarms. Flying away in straight lines using forward momentum is faster than attempting a vertical climb and used far more often. It just hast he disadvantage of putting you further away from the action, takes longer, and requires less skill.
What is the best thing a player with infinite skill points and infinite isk can do to kill an ADS?
1 person trying to answer 1 person. (because it usually takes 2 infantry using combined effort to down an ADS)
I think the best actual answer is to ram the other player with a viper. Wouldn't you agree? Something needs to change. |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2085
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Good points Will Driver. Sometimes an ADS escapes swarms and it is BS. Often it is skill. We need to leave the skill part in and get rid of the BS.
I hate getting swarmed to death, but i also hate just floating around with nothing to worry about. A middle ground is needed, BUT swarmers do need to realize that its a weapon like any other, Skill with a weapon gets victory, not just holding it.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2085
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
DJINN GITAXIS wrote:Curious why you didn't showcase yourself turning on a hardener and face tanking prototype swarms.
Easy. That does not work. Period.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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DJINN GITAXIS
Sebiestor Field Sappers
Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
It does if you kill the 1 person swarming you in.. (however long your module lasts)
Well how many volleys can you sustain while replenishing your hit points until you actually start taking damage. You get most of it back while the swarmer reloads. |
Fremder V1
Armed And Aimless
10
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
I always have to think "Sesame Street", when i watch one of those videos. Can't help it. |
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2085
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
there are more things at play here than just damage. Look at the video at 4:11. Look at that knock effect. How can I even aim at the swarmer after that. We have to consider not only how hard it is to kill me but how hard it is for me to kill him. Did you see that part where the guy by the wall did not render at all?
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2085
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fremder V1 wrote:I always have to think "Sesame Street", when i watch one of those videos. Can't help it.
I don't follow.....
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3146
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Glitcher. |
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
298
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Posted - 2014.05.26 22:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Very hard to use tactics when 9/10 times when you shoot an ads they activate an afterburner and stay up there until it cools down. Also armour dropships are bugged so swarms cant do much. |
THUNDERGROOVE
The Last of DusT.
846
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Posted - 2014.05.26 22:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:
You are right. Still , I do feel they need a slight effectiveness change. Also, thanks for watching my channel. The Legion announcement lost us many players. Loyal ones like you make this worthwhile.
Well to be fair, your early assault dropship tutorials got my into flying and I do have a slight YouTube addiction so I've been watching every upload.
You are right about their effectiveness, but I'm afraid we will get issues with current AV being balanced too much around other vehicles that are less fragile. A lot of people forget that assault ships are only any good with a good pilot inside and without the knowledge about how to maneuver in specific situations they loose pretty much all of their survivability.
TDBS
Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1556
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Posted - 2014.05.26 23:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:there are more things at play here than just damage. Look at the video at 4:11. Look at that knock effect. How can I even aim at the swarmer after that. We have to consider not only how hard it is to kill me but how hard it is for me to kill him. Did you see that part where the guy by the wall did not render at all?
I decided to read the thread first and post later after watching the video. However this fallacy that keeps popping up makes me feel that I should post now too.
Short of AV roof campers, there is almost (almost) never a time that a swarmer can focus 100% on a dropship. All it takes is one infantryman, even just a random noob in a starter fit with halfway decent aim, to put an end to a swarmer when his attention is focused above him. Even if the infantryman doesn't finish the swarmer, the dropship has ample time to take him out while he's dealing with the infantry. Even if the dropship is foolish enough to stick around long enough to get destroyed by the swarmer, the chances of the swarmer being attacked by infantry during that time is in my experience nearly 90%.
Meaning that yes there is more than just damage at play, but that goes for the swarmer too. And not every swarm volley knocks a dropship around to crazy extents, I know this as both seeing this from the ground and from the air. Sometimes a volley will send you almost spiraling through the air. And sometimes it just shakes you enough to spill your coffee a bit. (You full time pilots do drink coffee in there, right?)
It would be great if you could balance a game based on numbers alone, but stat numbers do not account for battle tactics, probabilities, random occurrences, individual circumstances, game errors, latency issues, nor dumb luck. The numbers on the new scouts sounded balanced when we first heard them, but plug them into the game and they override the need for assault suits. The Combat rifle if you recall was widely expected to be the worst rifle available in the game before it was released, but once implemented it soon became the go-to complaint of every infantry player in Dust. Tankers were convinced, despite the stats announced for them, that tanks were going to be at least as bad off after 1.7 as they were before it. I don't think I need to go any further on that one.
Numbers are important, don't get me wrong, they are the basis for all balancing. But what matters is what works, not what looks good on a spreadsheet.
All that being said, I will watch your video (today if I find the time) and see if adjusts my viewpoint any.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
MAG Vet ~ Raven
R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1556
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Posted - 2014.05.26 23:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:
You are right. Still , I do feel they need a slight effectiveness change. Also, thanks for watching my channel. The Legion announcement lost us many players. Loyal ones like you make this worthwhile.
Well to be fair, your early assault dropship tutorials got my into flying and I do have a slight YouTube addiction so I've been watching every upload. You are right about their effectiveness, but I'm afraid we will get issues with current AV being balanced too much around other vehicles that are less fragile. A lot of people forget that assault ships are only any good with a good pilot inside and without the knowledge about how to maneuver in specific situations they loose pretty much all of their survivability.
Also, to this, the forge is unlikely to be changed, the PLC is unlikely to hit you, and the ADS's resistance to swarms can always be adjusted as needed.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
MAG Vet ~ Raven
R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
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