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dzizur
6 dayz
37
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Posted - 2014.05.27 18:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Why all the balancing is assuming all people run proto all the time?
I mean c'mon, i run adv most of the time, sometimes std to make some cash and very rarely proto as you only need to die about 3-4 times to go negative. so the balancing is for pc guys and proto stompers or what? |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9962
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Posted - 2014.05.27 18:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
dzizur wrote:Why all the balancing is assuming all people run proto all the time?
I mean c'mon, i run adv most of the time, sometimes std to make some cash and very rarely proto as you only need to die about 3-4 times to go negative. so the balancing is for pc guys and proto stompers or what?
Proto is where stuff gets broken really fast.
Modules are at their maximum, suits have the most slots and CPU/PG to fit it all, shit can get crazy when it comes to balancing.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1062
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Posted - 2014.05.27 20:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
I am COMPLETELY 100% fine with requiring two damps.
But according to the math I saw around here, it will require three damps.
That's crossing the line IMHO.
As far as I know, Cat, two damps on a GalScout should cut it in all but extreme cases.
Source: https://googledrive.com/host/0B_YSJ6FRJlihQjFXdzdNYU5MQWM/alpha.html
Extreme Cases:
* CalScout w/3 Precision (if you're uncloaked)
* CalScout w/4 Precision Enhancers
* GalLogi w/Duvolle Focused
Cat Merc wrote:
You can run circles around a Gallente Heavy with 4x plates being repaired by a logi. I have done it, it's hilarious.
Pirouetting Heavies have been a problem since rotation speed was equalized. Still not sure why they did it.
Now that HMGs are super devastating and come with built-in tractor beams, maybe CCP can undo it.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2665
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Posted - 2014.05.27 20:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
I am COMPLETELY 100% fine with requiring two damps.
But according to the math I saw around here, it will require three damps.
That's crossing the line IMHO.
As far as I know, Cat, two damps on a GalScout should cut it in all but extreme cases. Source: https://googledrive.com/host/0B_YSJ6FRJlihQjFXdzdNYU5MQWM/alpha.htmlExtreme Cases: * CalScout w/3 Precision (if you're uncloaked) * CalScout w/4 Precision Enhancers * GalLogi w/Duvolle Focused
If 2 complex dampeners and a proto cloak don't get you below the extreme then there becomes no difference in any scout type in that regards. Which is dumb if the Gallente scout get a bonus to dampening. It means that they have a skill bonus that doesn't do anything
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1064
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Posted - 2014.05.27 20:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:
If 2 complex dampeners and a proto cloak don't get you below the extreme then there becomes no difference in any scout type in that regards. Which is dumb if the Gallente scout get a bonus to dampening. It means that they have a skill bonus that doesn't do anything
The GalScout is unique in that it is the only Scout which can beat 28 dB Prototype Scanners, without the aid of Damps or Cloak.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9972
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Posted - 2014.05.27 20:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:
If 2 complex dampeners and a proto cloak don't get you below the extreme then there becomes no difference in any scout type in that regards. Which is dumb if the Gallente scout get a bonus to dampening. It means that they have a skill bonus that doesn't do anything
The GalScout is unique in that it is the only Scout which can beat 28 dB Prototype Scanners, without the aid of Damps or Cloak.
It doesn't actually.
It hits 30dB.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9972
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 20:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
I am COMPLETELY 100% fine with requiring two damps.
But according to the math I saw around here, it will require three damps.
That's crossing the line IMHO.
As far as I know, Cat, two damps on a GalScout should cut it in all but extreme cases. Source: https://googledrive.com/host/0B_YSJ6FRJlihQjFXdzdNYU5MQWM/alpha.htmlExtreme Cases: * CalScout w/3 Precision (if you're uncloaked) * CalScout w/4 Precision Enhancers * GalLogi w/Duvolle Focused
So let's look at those extreme cases.
The GalLogi + Duvolle focused can do 360 spin scans because that's not fixed.
The Cal Scout with 4 enhancers can stay cloaked all day while he shares what he sees on his TacNet.
Since he knows where everyone is, he can also choose the perfect time and place to attack, to minimize his eHP disadvantage.
While my Gal Scout can... hide... barely... :|
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1068
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Posted - 2014.05.27 21:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
1) The GalLogi + Duvolle focused can do 360 spin scans because that's not fixed.
2) The Cal Scout with 4 enhancers can stay cloaked all day while he shares what he sees on his TacNet. Since he knows where everyone is, he can also choose the perfect time and place to attack, to minimize his eHP disadvantage.
1. Seriously? CCP specifically said that spin scanning was fixed. If you're right, that's gonna raise alot of stink.
2. That CalScout will be running Range Extenders. Not damps. Locate and eliminate his 29 dB squishy arse using your 28 dB scanner.
Cat Merc wrote:
It doesn't actually.
It hits 30dB.
If I'm not mistaken, Haerr's table reads 27 dB.
This sssumes all Skills are at Level (5).
Am I reading it wrong (again)?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
970
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Posted - 2014.05.27 21:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Alder King wrote:This was not my own writing, and I won't say who the original author was, only if he wants to come out and say it was him will you find out from me. Quote:The Nerf Hammer, a Brief History:
Item overperforms. Becomes FoTM. CCP nerfs multiple aspects of the item at once. Item gets broken. Oops. CCP says they'll be more careful next time. CCP says they'll stick to small changes. No more nerf hammer.
Hotfix Alpha:
* Combat Rifle overperforming. Rattati grabs scalpel.
* Tanks overperforming. Rattati grabs scalpel.
* GalScout overperforming. Rattati reaches for hammer.
* the crowd goes wild * This seems very much a problem right now. There seems to be too many variable changing all at once when it comes to scouts.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, as I'm a vehicle person more than anything. I'm a scout at heart though, and will admit I haven't looked as deeply as you into the upcoming changes.
Very good breakdown and analysis of scouts.
I too agree that WAY to much is being done at once. I don't agree though with the idea that the invisibility of the cloak is USELESS.
When scanners are involved, yes useless without dampening. I do not agree with the nerf to cloaks dampening, I think time is enough. I also think that the scanners dampening should scale up keeping current numbers in mind. Thing is, a scout sacrifices a hefty amount of PG/CPU to use cloak, to be invisible. Not just invisible (or in this case, tricky to see) physically, but invisible to radar.
What's the point if you simply get scanned out when you are trying to be sneaky? And why be forced to use dampeners, just to play what a scout is? If anything, less emphasis should be put on the physical cloak feature itself and more on the dampening effect that goes with it!
When I think scout, I relate this to COD MW, where you chose certain perks that made you invisible to radar. May have worked a bit differently (scanning) but the idea of what a scout is and how it operates is there. If I remember right, you wouldn't show up on radar and you no longer lit up when a player aimed at you, other perks to muffle movement sounds. THIS is what invisibility is about.
Being physically invisible works when you DON'T HAVE A RADAR FEATURE. When a radar feature is present, then that is what you want to be invisible to. Players, in competitive environments, rely heavily on electronic intel for gaining tactical insight on enemy movements over actually physically watching for enemy movement.
Why? Because you can't see through walls, buildings, ect. Duh, we knew that. That is why it's so important for a scout who is trying to get behind enemy lines be invisible to radar, over physical invisibility. The invisibility is nice, but at this point everyone sees them when they are moving, so that by itself doesn't hide their movements. It does shine though when you physically stop moving, becoming basically invisible, so it does well to hide your presence, not so much your movements.
Throw a scanner in the mix and scouts basically get ****** if they aren't running damps. What it seems to me, is that the devs have taken to thinking a scouts best defense is the invisibility provided by a cloak. Or that scouts were fitting too much eHP when paired with a cloak.
In my opinion, all scouts should be able to easily, at proto level, reach scanner invisibility, while maintaining decent defenses. Defenses in the form of speed, extra HP, stam, ect. Additionally, they shouldn't simply be untouchable to scans, from another scout. All scouts need the ability to hunt out other scouts, but this is achieved through fitting. I don't see it very fair that only one scout can scan them all.
TL;DR
You have scouts fitted for scanning out other scouts, and scouts fitted to better avoid other scouts. So in this case they max out the damps, or the amps. But as I was saying with scanning or scanners I should say, it shouldn't take max damps for a scout to be invisible from anything but another scout and it's scanning. To sum it up in a nutshell.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1069
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Posted - 2014.05.27 21:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
@ Cat Merc
Just spin-scanned roughly 300 degrees with my 90 Degree Scanner.
What's the catch? They said they fixed this.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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