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Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
84
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Posted - 2014.05.26 00:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:Atli Mar
GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian
@Templar_10 we are talking about the evolution of the vision, and it allows PC and transfers of characters! We wnt leave ne1 behind
Quote:Atli Mar GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian 3 mag
@Templar_10 @angelnomoon @Cookie_Stein we love console, and we are moving to next gen. We need to start with PC bcs range of graphics option
Quote:Atli Mar
GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian
supporting a range of graphic cards allows better framrerate and thus better gameplay.
*confused* |
Michael Arck
4534
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Posted - 2014.05.26 00:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
84
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Posted - 2014.05.26 00:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? That's simply untrue...
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176
Anyway, it wasn't my point... |
Michael Arck
4534
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Posted - 2014.05.26 00:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? That's simply untrue... 1.84 teraflop GPU doesn't seem "outdated" imo. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176Anyway, it wasn't my point...
How does a confused person have a point? I simply explained the most likely logical solution that you rejected because it didn't fit the answer you wanted. How funny that is
And lets just face the truth here. PS4 is outdated by PC standards.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Criteria Shipment
Dogs of War Gaming
Zero-Day
915
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 00:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? That's simply untrue... 1.84 teraflop GPU doesn't seem "outdated" imo. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176Anyway, it wasn't my point... How does a confused person have a point? I simply explained the most likely logical solution that you rejected because it didn't fit the answer you wanted. How funny that is And lets just face the truth here. PS4 is outdated by PC standards.
So... could that explain why the Xbox one looks like a VCR? |
Michael Arck
4534
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Posted - 2014.05.26 00:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Criteria Shipment wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? That's simply untrue... 1.84 teraflop GPU doesn't seem "outdated" imo. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176Anyway, it wasn't my point... How does a confused person have a point? I simply explained the most likely logical solution that you rejected because it didn't fit the answer you wanted. How funny that is And lets just face the truth here. PS4 is outdated by PC standards. So... could that explain why the Xbox one looks like a VCR?
LOL! Retrograde designs for electronic devices ftw
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
85
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 00:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? That's simply untrue... 1.84 teraflop GPU doesn't seem "outdated" imo. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176Anyway, it wasn't my point... How does a confused person have a point? I simply explained the most likely logical solution that you rejected because it didn't fit the answer you wanted. How funny that is And lets just face the truth here. PS4 is outdated by PC standards.
Which component is exactly outdated? You at least know something about what you're saying or are you just talking relying on hearsay?
No, it didn't fit the whole thread at all, anyway.
The *confusion* wes about porting a MMOFPS PC game on console, "range of graphic cards allows better framrerate and thus better gameplay" and the "We wnt leave ne1 behind" thing when they actually cut off at least half of their community. |
Michael Arck
4534
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 01:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh god, I'm just going to forget stepping into this stupid thread talking to an idiot
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
85
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 01:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Oh god, I'm just going to forget stepping into this stupid thread talking to an idiot
And here we go again...
Are you still talking by hearsay or is it just your preconceived, uncultivated and uninformed opinion? Really mature.
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Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
1050
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Posted - 2014.05.26 01:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Oh god, I'm just going to forget stepping into this stupid thread talking to an idiot And here we go again... Are you still talking by hearsay or is it just your preconceived, uncultivated and uninformed opinion? Really mature.
You'll soon find out he throws around opinions like facts. |
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OliX PRZESMIEWCA
Bezimienni...
109
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Posted - 2014.05.26 01:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
To be honest it's still UT engine. Modified but still PS3 is fully capable to work with games that looks 10x better.
But we don't play Dust for graphics aren't we ? |
Leeroy Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
313
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Posted - 2014.05.26 02:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Oh god, I'm just going to forget stepping into this stupid thread talking to an idiot And here we go again... Are you still talking by hearsay or is it just your preconceived, uncultivated and uninformed opinion? Really mature.
R9 280X is a $300AUD GPU. It's a midrange card; runs at 4.1tflops.
1.83 seems outdated to me.
MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK
It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
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Leeroy Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
314
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Posted - 2014.05.26 02:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
http://ps4daily.com/2013/03/nvidia-playstation-4-has-outdated-specs/
I can't be bothered finding actual numbers, but clearly Nvidia agrees.
That last sentence should be taken with a (large) grain of salt, considering that the PS4 has to render some games in 720p.
And also that KZ only looks good when you reach the set piece moments; otherwise it was pretty normal.
ANYWAY. I AM OFF TO GO PLAY MY PS4 :)
MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK
It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
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Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
90
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 03:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Leeroy Gannarsein wrote:Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Oh god, I'm just going to forget stepping into this stupid thread talking to an idiot And here we go again... Are you still talking by hearsay or is it just your preconceived, uncultivated and uninformed opinion? Really mature. R9 280X is a $300AUD GPU. It's a midrange card; runs at 4.1tflops. 1.83 seems outdated to me.
It's true, still it doesn't mean it effectively calculate that fast. This thread shouldn't be about this, but while we're at it...
A console, as you may know, is all for gaming. Everything is thought so that you have the best experience for the price you pay.
The 1.83 is the effective Tflops, not the max.
Now, for sure, you may build a PC with 2 to 8 times its power, but if you do, you should be a good engineer in order to make all those wonderful things works at their best.
Hell, you can even crossfire more GPUs in order to make them work 10 times better than a console (still, having big stuttering problems on some games). But this doesn't necessarily mean your game performance will be 10 times better. |
Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
90
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 03:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
And, please, the topic was the three almost conflicting statements quoted in the OP. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15203
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 05:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? That's simply untrue... 1.84 teraflop GPU doesn't seem "outdated" imo. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176Anyway, it wasn't my point...
1.84???
PS3 has waaaay more than that theoretical in lab environments.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
381
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Posted - 2014.05.26 05:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:Quote:Atli Mar
GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian
@Templar_10 we are talking about the evolution of the vision, and it allows PC and transfers of characters! We wnt leave ne1 behind Quote:Atli Mar GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian 3 mag
@Templar_10 @angelnomoon @Cookie_Stein we love console, and we are moving to next gen. We need to start with PC bcs range of graphics option Quote:Atli Mar
GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian
supporting a range of graphic cards allows better framrerate and thus better gameplay. *confused*
What I read is:
"We made a lot of unrecoverable mistakes in our outsourcing and coding in the game DUST514. In the time we attempted to rectify we decided that it would be better to start from scratch. It's easier to do this on PC. We will not go back to consoles ever again. Thanks for being a part of what we do."
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
70
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 08:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Your view maybe, but the math says otherwise. They have half the processing power of a proper gaming PC.
Carmack is correct that they will out perform 'a comparable PC' but that is merely a slow tablet or netbook solution with a mid to low tier APU (ie 28watt). A gaming PC will have a CPU that is > 3 GHz, a video card with a processor that has at least twice the number of shaders. His double statement is PR comparing a mid-level PC to the next gen. But all mid-level PCs (and the next gen console) will suffer when compared to a decent gaming PC. Even a $600 version will stomp either console.
Their high speed combined (AMD designed) video/main memory solution will mask their deficiencies for a few years, then they will consistently be behind every PC on the market. In particular any PC that uses the combined memory solution from AMD. It is funny when you think about it. If AMD can convince others to follow that path then the next gen consoles will be out of date even faster than their predecessors.
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
70
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 08:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:1.84??? PS3 has waaaay more than that theoretical in lab environments.
Yes, but it also sucks a lot more power than 28 watts. And it took six years before the development community finally started producing code that actually used the processor. The now cancelled processor BTW. The processor took years to develop, costing Toshiba, Sony and IBM nearly a billion dollars. While it is fascinating it proved too difficult to program for. It made a slight dent in the high performance computing market but now it is merely a footnote in the processor time line. A failed experiment.
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
70
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 08:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:Quote:Atli Mar
GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian
@Templar_10 we are talking about the evolution of the vision, and it allows PC and transfers of characters! We wnt leave ne1 behind Quote:Atli Mar GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian 3 mag
@Templar_10 @angelnomoon @Cookie_Stein we love console, and we are moving to next gen. We need to start with PC bcs range of graphics option Quote:Atli Mar
GÇÅ@CCP_Praetorian
supporting a range of graphic cards allows better framrerate and thus better gameplay. *confused*
Basically they are admitting they are a PC company that never should have gone into the console market. The PS3 has less memory in total over a cheap video card. A quick check of my local PC parts provider (not the cheapest solution but a good store) and I cannot find a card that has less than 1GB. The PS3 has 256M Video and 256M system RAM. While it was a decent enough design for the time frame (release a few years late) it has aged poorly and the last few years of PC development have left it further behind every quarter. The xbox 360 even the more so.
The memory limitation means nothing until you realize that every single texture that the game is using must fit in memory. Once a battle is started there is no way to swap out textures. A modern PC (even the next gen consoles) will be able to keep several GBs of texture data available. That means better graphics, better detail, bigger maps and less time in the various loading screens (one would hope). The problem is that it takes good developers to squeeze what was initially a PC game into a console and their developers had never done a western style FPS, much less one on a console.
The other bits are PR BS. The demo to journalists showed several developers playing (?) project legion but nobody was interacting with each other. Sort of a single player FPS versus MMO they were claiming. Also it was clearly stated that improved skills were solely based on getting better weapons through salvage, not a skill tree. So transferring ISK and the name is probably all that would make sense (aka be applicable to being transferred).
Next gen does not actually mean consoles in that context (although as a console gamer would certainly assume that it should). It means next generation of the gaming environment. Which is PC based. Both the new consoles are mid level PCs with a low power APU from AMD. Truncated graphic functionality and a slow clock means it is a cheap device to make. Being essentially a PC means it is much cheaper to code for as well.
The whole frame rate, graphics detail and adjusting to a wide range of customer PCs is typical PC game marketing speak. If you are a console only gamer then it is doubtful you have heard that as many times as PC gamers have. It means they will have an in game option to turn all the goodies off so your junk walmart PC will run the game fast enough so you don't always get trashed by those with better gear (their better gaming PC that is). Mostly PC gamers don't believe it anyway, which is why video game reviews by trusted game reviewers is so important to those that aren't running a maxed out PC.
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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The-DON of-DOT-MAFIA
The DOT MAFIA
3
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Posted - 2014.05.26 10:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? lol
UE3 is outdated circa 2009
win/vista SP2 with direct x 11 is outdated
GTX 560 is outdated
evetards are outdated...lol
get that STEAM OS downloaded..
long live the comfy couch console!
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End Is Here
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.05.26 14:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
Last time I heard, dust514 was ps3 EXCLUSIVE 'laser focused'....... I HATE playing games on PC. Causes seizures in lab rats. |
Lanius Pulvis
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
282
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Posted - 2014.05.26 14:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Oh god, I'm just going to forget stepping into this stupid thread talking to an idiot
Just run while you still can....
Abandon hope all ye who enter here....
Not new, just new to you.
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Schecter 666
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14
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Posted - 2014.05.26 14:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
it will still have major performance issues and look like a game from 2007 no matter how much of a best of a PC you have. |
Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
92
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Posted - 2014.05.26 22:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Glyd Path wrote:Your view maybe, but the math says otherwise. They have half the processing power of a proper gaming PC. Carmack is correct that they will out perform 'a comparable PC' but that is merely a slow tablet or netbook solution with a mid to low tier APU (ie 28watt). A gaming PC will have a CPU that is > 3 GHz, a video card with a processor that has at least twice the number of shaders. His double statement is PR comparing a mid-level PC to the next gen. But all mid-level PCs (and the next gen console) will suffer when compared to a decent gaming PC. Even a $600 version will stomp either console. Their high speed combined (AMD designed) video/main memory solution will mask their deficiencies for a few years, then they will consistently be behind every PC on the market. In particular any PC that uses the combined memory solution from AMD. It is funny when you think about it. If AMD can convince others to follow that path then the next gen consoles will be out of date even faster than their predecessors.
Numbers are numbers, you're right. And as you said, performances are performances.
Let's take cars as an example:
You can put a 4.0 / 600 Hp on a 2000 Kg Car.
Now take a 2.0 / 300 Hp on a 700 Kg Car.
The first is, on the paper, more powerful. But when you actually compare both the cars you'll notice a big difference: The first has a weight/power ratio of 3.33, the second is 2.33 (the lesser, the better).
Another example with cars, you can actually build your Nissan Skyline and Tune it with whatever thing on, but the race version of the same car with the same engine on it will always win on track. Simply because it has been built with only one purpose: race.
Optimization, is the same thing. You can buy all the components a PS4 has (actually, you can't, but just pretend you could): if you want to effectively reach the same levels, you effectively need to double your power or at least to emulate the architecture of the consoles in your PC (which will seriously require a lot of hard work and an expert, not a geek)
That said, a gaming PCs, because of their upgradable nature, will be much more powerful in the next few years.
Anyway, the tweets does not refer to the "limits" of PS4, they just say that:
- They won't leave no one behind while that's untrue
- They need to start with PC because of the graphic options which doesn't make sense to me
- Supporting a range of graphic cards allows better framerate which is absolute nonsense to me.
I simply didn't want this Console vs PC thread again. Jesus- |
The-DON of-DOT-MAFIA
The DOT MAFIA
3
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Posted - 2014.05.26 23:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
End Is Here wrote:Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
Last time I heard, dust514 was ps3 EXCLUSIVE 'laser focused'....... I HATE playing games on PC. Causes seizures in lab rats.
the seizures where caused by rats having no thumbs.
steam box console with steam controller...lol cannot wait. |
The-DON of-DOT-MAFIA
The DOT MAFIA
3
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Posted - 2014.05.27 03:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:And, please, the topic was the three almost conflicting statements quoted in the OP.
if you throw steam into the mix then there is no conflic. the vendor proposals for the steambox are i5 or i7 machines with 8-16 gigs of ram, and the graphics card is variable.
CCP is going to use UE3, and if pushed as in the "samaritan" tech demo, will run on a $100.00 gtx560 card. eve online also recommends the gtx560.
CCP used UE3's limited matchmaking module-the steam OS will have match making built in.
CCP needs anti hack-the steam OS will have it built in.
a pc owner will be able to dual boot WIN and STEAM OS
or you could by a small form factor PC, gigabyte sells on look at tiger direct online.
so any computer from 2010 will run UE3, as long as it has Win VISTA SP2 (Direct X11) and an old GTX560.
but i'm going to sit on my couch with my steam controller, and smash PCmasterretards till the cows come home..lol |
Void Echo
Total Extinction
2601
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Posted - 2014.05.27 07:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
wow... I got confused reading half these comments looking like they were comparing cars and others are comparing PC specs.
but seriously, the only way this move would ever be forgiven is if CCP could literally give us back the 2 years (closed beta vet) we spent on building up our characters so we don't waste 2 years of this **** for nothing in return and for our stuff to be taken away and given to some ******** PC players.
Closed Beta Vet.
Playstation 4 or nothing CCP.
Only the strongest can do good and the weakest do evil. - Void Echo
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jadzia idris
Whips n Chains
UNITED STAR FEDERATION
1
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Posted - 2014.05.27 08:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? That's simply untrue... 1.84 teraflop GPU doesn't seem "outdated" imo. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176Anyway, it wasn't my point...
it is when a entry level Gtx 750 ti card pushes 1,705 flops in double precision.
Thats just a entry level GPU...
price point between 130- 140 for ti version and 120 price point non ti version.
Pair it with a i3 and your still getting above console level performance..
Not advocating ccp here but if they have any hope of saving dust and or moving it to ps4 they will build and test it on pc then port it to ps4... Sense now consoles use the same x86 arch that pc's run...
Honestly they should have never released it on the ps3.. While i love the game i think the biggest issue is the platform it was released on.
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Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
96
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 13:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
jadzia idris wrote:Freccia di Lybra wrote:Michael Arck wrote:To get the optimized vision that they want of Dust, PC will be better grounds to achieve this. Once they reach the quality of game they want, then they discuss bringing it to next gen consoles.
Because starting from consoles first, even though it has PC like architecture, is still limited since the tech in the console is outdated.
outdated? That's simply untrue... 1.84 teraflop GPU doesn't seem "outdated" imo. https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176Anyway, it wasn't my point... it is when a entry level Gtx 750 ti card pushes 1,705 flops in double precision. Thats just a entry level GPU... price point between 130- 140 for ti version and 120 price point non ti version.
Please read the other posts. It's all about optimization. |
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