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headbust
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback
13
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Posted - 2014.05.22 15:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
make armor modules raise the scan profile of a suit this will affect almost noone besides the gal scouts heavys usually dont care about being scanned lol they will just unload on the guy trying to capitallize on the scan from his buddy
a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
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headbust
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback
13
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
headbust wrote:make armor modules raise the scan profile of a suit this will affect almost noone besides the gal scouts heavys usually dont care about being scanned lol they will just unload on the guy trying to capitallize on the scan from his buddy anyone have a better idea short of nerfing something
a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
631
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
ive been saying armor and shield modules should increase your scan profile for the longest time but no one seemed to listen, it would be a better change than nerfing the cloak damping bonus |
Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
87
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nerfing the suits skill is counter productive... I've seen others mention that armour modules can be changed to a % based value, instead of a fixed 148.5hp per complex plate, and calculated the result based off of that assumption. If done correctly, this allows a decent amount of hp between light, medium, and heavy suits, without changing the current hp values of the medium and heavy suits. My results were that Gallente assaults and logis retain an approximate 950 armour, Gallente Sentinels retain 1200-1300 armour, and Gallente Scouts have about 550 armour. The previous values are all using the maximum values when using a proto suit. |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
631
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:Nerfing the suits skill is counter productive... I've seen others mention that armour modules can be changed to a % based value, instead of a fixed 148.5hp per complex plate, and calculated the result based off of that assumption. If done correctly, this allows a decent amount of hp between light, medium, and heavy suits, without changing the current hp values of the medium and heavy suits. My results were that Gallente assaults and logis retain an approximate 950 armour, Gallente Sentinels retain 1200-1300 armour, and Gallente Scouts have about 550 armour. The previous values are all using the maximum values when using a proto suit. again READ READ READ this is notabout armor values it is about armor modules adding to your scan profile making you easier to scan |
headbust
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback
16
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Posted - 2014.05.22 18:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
i wish that the dev would look at this post its an excellent idea not sure wat the problem would be not seeing much downfall
a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
734
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
This sudden obsession with dampening is a result of the cloak, becoming electronically invisible became even more important after becoming visually invisible became possible. Galscouts have the advantage in this paradigm, taking away the dampening bonus of cloaks widens this gap because of the low slots and fitting capability if the Galscout. If it is going to be changed there should be a dampening penalty so EVERYONE using a cloak has the possibility of being scanned. Yes, scouts depend on being stealthy, this means that if they are electronically invisible they can be visually very hard to see and if they are visible they can be electronically invisible and use their stealthiness skills to be sneaky. They should not have the ability for stealth both electronically and visually merely as a result of modules. Take this away and the scouts are much closer to each other and much closer to the other suits.
Armor tanking is already being addressed. Having nothing but scouts and, and only two of each race of those, is not balanced.
Because, that's why.
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
634
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
no cloaks should never make u more scanable |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
530
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Yes, scouts depend on being stealthy, this means that if they are electronically invisible they should be visually visible and if they are visually invisible they should be electronically visible, and they would need to gain their stealthiness from skill. They should not have the ability for stealth, both electronically and visually, merely as a result of modules. Take this away and the scouts are much closer to each other and much closer to the other suits. I call this either having cake or eating it.
I like it because this splits scouts in two roles. Either be invisible on scanners while standing behind a wall or be invisible to the eye until somebody points a scanner at you.
We had the invisibility on scanners until 1.7 and it worked very well. Now we could add the visually invisible scout that gets a penalty to dampening as a second way to play a scout. You could even reduce the shimmer in that case. |
Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
88
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Nerfing the suits skill is counter productive... I've seen others mention that armour modules can be changed to a % based value, instead of a fixed 148.5hp per complex plate, and calculated the result based off of that assumption. If done correctly, this allows a decent amount of hp between light, medium, and heavy suits, without changing the current hp values of the medium and heavy suits. My results were that Gallente assaults and logis retain an approximate 950 armour, Gallente Sentinels retain 1200-1300 armour, and Gallente Scouts have about 550 armour. The previous values are all using the maximum values when using a proto suit. again READ READ READ this is notabout armor values it is about armor modules adding to your scan profile making you easier to scan
The title states otherwise, and it states fixing the Gallente Scout tanking issue, which is solved when you simply change the armour value, making it less versatile compared to other suits, and changing it from a buffed up assault/logi. The % value, for example of about 80% per complex plate from the suit's base health, which is 130 armour for the Gallente Scout, is 104 armour per complex plate. A Prototype Gallente Scout has 4 low slots, and can have a maximum of 416 armour in plating with this system. That with the base suit armour (130) and the Amour skill bonus that offers +25% armour of the base suit armour (32.5), equates to a maximum of 578.5 armour HP, which is significantly lower than the Gallente Assault and Logi suits, who retain their health of around 950-980 armour with this system.
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
634
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Nerfing the suits skill is counter productive... I've seen others mention that armour modules can be changed to a % based value, instead of a fixed 148.5hp per complex plate, and calculated the result based off of that assumption. If done correctly, this allows a decent amount of hp between light, medium, and heavy suits, without changing the current hp values of the medium and heavy suits. My results were that Gallente assaults and logis retain an approximate 950 armour, Gallente Sentinels retain 1200-1300 armour, and Gallente Scouts have about 550 armour. The previous values are all using the maximum values when using a proto suit. again READ READ READ this is notabout armor values it is about armor modules adding to your scan profile making you easier to scan The title states otherwise, and it states fixing the Gallente Scout tanking issue, which is solved when you simply change the armour value, making it less versatile compared to other suits, and changing it from a buffed up assault/logi. The % value, for example of about 80% per complex plate from the suit's base health, which is 130 armour for the Gallente Scout, is 104 armour per complex plate. A Prototype Gallente Scout has 4 low slots, and can have a maximum of 416 armour in plating with this system. That with the base suit armour (130) and the Amour skill bonus that offers +25% armour of the base suit armour (32.5), equates to a maximum of 578.5 armour HP, which is significantly lower than the Gallente Assault and Logi suits, who retain their health of around 950-980 armour with this system.
if you would read more than the title you would know that the thread is NOT about armor modules hp values but about changing them to add to your scan profile making bricked scouts scannable even while invsible. people who stack plates on scouts are a joke and comletely ignorant to ewar anyway therefore not a problem to begin with |
Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
88
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Nerfing the suits skill is counter productive... I've seen others mention that armour modules can be changed to a % based value, instead of a fixed 148.5hp per complex plate, and calculated the result based off of that assumption. If done correctly, this allows a decent amount of hp between light, medium, and heavy suits, without changing the current hp values of the medium and heavy suits. My results were that Gallente assaults and logis retain an approximate 950 armour, Gallente Sentinels retain 1200-1300 armour, and Gallente Scouts have about 550 armour. The previous values are all using the maximum values when using a proto suit. again READ READ READ this is notabout armor values it is about armor modules adding to your scan profile making you easier to scan The title states otherwise, and it states fixing the Gallente Scout tanking issue, which is solved when you simply change the armour value, making it less versatile compared to other suits, and changing it from a buffed up assault/logi. The % value, for example of about 80% per complex plate from the suit's base health, which is 130 armour for the Gallente Scout, is 104 armour per complex plate. A Prototype Gallente Scout has 4 low slots, and can have a maximum of 416 armour in plating with this system. That with the base suit armour (130) and the Amour skill bonus that offers +25% armour of the base suit armour (32.5), equates to a maximum of 578.5 armour HP, which is significantly lower than the Gallente Assault and Logi suits, who retain their health of around 950-980 armour with this system. if you would read more than the title you would know that the thread is NOT about armor modules hp values but about changing them to add to your scan profile making bricked scouts scannable even while invsible. people who stack plates on scouts are a joke and comletely ignorant to ewar anyway therefore not a problem to begin with
If you read the second comment in this thread that is by the author, he states if "anyone have a better idea short of nerfing something". This is simply my evaluation as to how to solve the tanking issue with the Gallente Scout, without actually nerfing it's ability to dampen, which is in its operation skill. I do not take credit for the idea of percentage based amour, but I do take credit for the math behind it. I do not remember where I saw this idea, but I consider it to be a viable solution. The purpose of these forums is to present ideas formally and constructively. That is all I'm merely doing. |
Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
88
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough.
It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak.
Note: This is from another thread regarding cloaks and the Gallente Scout's ability to stack armour. I have edited some of it to match further evaluation.
Thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2167888#post2167888
A suggestion in another thread was to make armour plating (and potentially shield extenders) percentage based. An example of this would be the following:
Let's say that complex armour plates offer 80% more armour to your suit, instead of a fixed 148.5 HP (135*1.1)
Single Plate Values:
-- Gallente Scout has 130 armour HP by default. , which equates to 234 armour
-- Gallente Logi has 180 armour HP by default, which equates to 324 armour
-- Gallente Assault has 210 armour HP by default. which equates to 378 armour
-- Gellente Sentinel has 525 armour HP by default, which equates to 945 armour
Proto Suit Values When Fully Stacked:
-- Gallente Scout > 546 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (32.5), 578.5 maximum armour HP
-- Gallente Logi > 900 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (45), 945 maximum armour HP
-- Gallente Assault > 882 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (52.5), 934.5 maximum armour HP
-- Gallente Sentinel > 2,205 armour, +25% of the default armour HP form the Armour Skill (131.25), 2,336.25 armour HP
That Gallente Sentinel I'll try this...
Scaling The Gallente Sentinel Amour To Match Assaults and Scouts:
The Gallente Assault has 210 armour, while the Gallente Scout has 130. To scale the Sentinel armour, 210/130 is approximate to 1.615. So, from this, the Gallente Assault has 210 armour, to find the new Sentinel armour, you simply multiply 210*1.615, which is approximate to 339.
-- Gallente Sentinel Base Armour > 339
-- Gallente Sentinel Maximum Armour HP from Plating > 1084.8
-- Gellente Sentinel Armour Skill Bonus +25% Base Armour > 84.75
Maximum Health > 1508.15
The % value could be adjusted to suit the Gallente Sentinel, while having minimum effect on the Assault, Logi, and Scout, as the Gallente Sentinel has around 300 more armour than it currently has. Something around 75-78% could suffice.
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
634
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
why nerf plates when fitted to scout frames thats still a nerf |
Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
88
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:why nerf plates when fitted to scout frames thats still a nerf
I know I must have posted this before you were able to read it, but the above post doesn't actually nerf them, according to my math, which reflects current health values for other suits, and solves the tanking problem with Gallente Scouts. |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
634
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
honestly the change you are suggesting is entirly too complicated for such a small issue, we dont need all these numbers and math to fix what some people precive as a problem, i have no issue with bricked tanked scouts because they are not a threat to me in any way. i do have an issue with cloaks being changed due to igorant qq by a few people who cant deal with everything 1.8 brought to the table. changing armor values is not a smart decision if its just being done because one scout suit is used more often, changing the cloak damping bonus gimps all other suits except the gallente, the one that a few people precive as a probem its not goin to fix anything |
Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
88
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:honestly the change you are suggesting is entirly too complicated for such a small issue, we dont need all these numbers and math to fix what some people precive as a problem, i have no issue with bricked tanked scouts because they are not a threat to me in any way. i do have an issue with cloaks being changed due to igorant qq by a few people who cant deal with everything 1.8 brought to the table. changing armor values is not a smart decision if its just being done because one scout suit is used more often, changing the cloak damping bonus gimps all other suits except the gallente, the one that a few people precive as a probem its not goin to fix anything
Too complicated? This is simple math that only requires a 3rd to 4th grade education to understand. A child can literally understand this... and coding in itself is complicated, and varies with the system your using. In comparison, this isn't complicated whatsoever... it's effortless calculations.
I personally don't have an issue with brick tanked scouts, but honestly it does sound imbalance. The ability to be sufficiently dampened, easy to fit cloak, fit 2 equipment slots, have around 725 armour, and a proto weapon, it's a little too good.
Just so you know, I am fully proto in the Gallente Scout, and I don't tank it myself, but for it's role and purpose it's a little too strong in comparison to other scouts, and breaches into being more favorable than medium frames, as it almost overlaps their roles. |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
635
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Posted - 2014.05.22 21:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
725 armor on a scout suit is tanked dont say u dont tank it, and the amar suit can get its hp just as high it has the same slot layout with more base hp and pg/cpu |
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3120
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Posted - 2014.05.22 21:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
headbust wrote:make armor modules raise the scan profile of a suit this will affect almost noone besides the gal scouts heavys usually dont care about being scanned lol they will just unload on the guy trying to capitallize on the scan from his buddy Are you actually serious? Since when are plates giving away signatures? Would it not make more sense that shield extenders increase your signature because of the higher amount of power emitted? |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
635
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Posted - 2014.05.22 21:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:headbust wrote:make armor modules raise the scan profile of a suit this will affect almost noone besides the gal scouts heavys usually dont care about being scanned lol they will just unload on the guy trying to capitallize on the scan from his buddy Are you actually serious? Since when are plates giving away signatures? Would it not make more sense that shield extenders increase your signature because of the higher amount of power emitted? metal reflects radio waves and sound waves among other stuff, there is no reason why both types of modules, armor and shield, should not raise your scan profile |
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