DUST Search - An effective way to deal with Heavies

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Heavy's are for combat superiority. I don't see any reason they should bow to the whims of rock-paper-scissors anything. So long as any other suit has something to contribute, they are not entitled to being able to beat a heavy 1v1 without an incredibly good setup. They are harder to position and contribute nothing other than combat potential in a limited area. Put anyone else on even ground with them and why the hell would you ever deploy a heavy? They just wouldn't be versatile enough to be relevant in a serious game.

The entitlement complex comes from the fact that they have literally no role other than combat. If they aren't the absolute best at their job within that limited sphere of influence, why even have them in the game? What the hell else are they contributing? We rely on other peoples reps, other peoples ammunition, other peoples uplinks and other peoples radar. CCP is even talking about removing the Heavy's ability to hack anything. We are either better than the other suits are at combat, or we're worthless.

That's all there is to it.

I agree. We should remove Assaults and Commandos. Their role is absolutely pointless.

Assaults need limited vertical movement. That gives every frame a reliable and useful battle gimmick which contributes something tactical to the game.

Assaults with vertical movement are able to transition across structures and gain tactical vantage points.

Scouts have the fastest land speed movement and the best stealth/radar configuration.

Logistics are the masters of equipment spam and... well, logistics.

Heavy's are dedicated face-melters who are not to be screwed around with unless you either have a friend or an incredible vantage point/trap.

Commandos are already removed in Legion, and assaults effectively mimic them at the moment in that game.

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Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5654	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:00:00 - [1] - Quote Obviously, this is something most veteran FPS players will debate the hell out of so this isn't meant for you guys, lol. Mostly just beginner stuff but it's how I was taught back in the day when they actually had turn speed restrictions. http://i.imgur.com/poVOxr5.gif Basically, the theory is that because of their slow movement you can generally out-maneuver them. HMGs have an insanely high fire rate so attempting to do a side-to-side, oval or 'v' strafe will inevitable incur some damage on you. Moving around in a wide circle puts them on the defense as they have to turn fast enough to land hits. Lot of players have trouble with that by over-compensating (kicking in aim acceleration) and aiming too far ahead or not turning fast enough to land shots. Inevitable problem though is that it requires a lot of open space to move around, so it doesn't work too well for corridor combat like in your typical Gallente Research Facility maps. Anyway, it was just a random GIF I found and decided to share. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Denchlad 7 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 263	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:02:00 - [2] - Quote 1. Do that 2. RE 3. ??? 4. Feast on the tears I will be the only player to Prototype every single god damn weapon before Dust dies. I swear to it.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5654	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:03:00 - [3] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: 1. Do that 2. RE 3. ??? 4. Feast on the tears Hah. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3408	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:19:00 - [4] - Quote This is actually...not a bad idea, but you have to be within 10 meters. Heavy being my secondary role apart from logistics, I know from experience that the hardest thing to track with the HMG is anything that can move around you quickly. For example, jumping over me, hitting me in the back then quickly moving past me on the side in order to make me spin around wildly is probably the best tactic. Trying to locate a player in CQC is pretty hard to do in this game, especially with the FOV being as it is. But with any HMG user (especially a burst) it's extremely risky to get that close. If I do manage to spot you, one quick swipe over your face deals enough damage to kill most players at that range. Personally I just rely on the heavy to not have an insane amounts of reps so that I can duck into cover and take him in chunks. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
PARKOUR PRACTIONER The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 1508	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:29:00 - [5] - Quote I am obsessed with how simple this is. I usually get their back but I NEVER move around them. Thank you. Going to practice that now thanks. Should save me some suits. +1 That ROF reminds me of my Breach & TAC ARs. Cool. Jack-Of-All-Trades, GJR Approved Favorite Suits Weapons- GLU-5, SCR, SCP, BP, HMG, Turtle, Tux, CalLogi, CalAssault
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9770	Posted - 2014.05.17 13:18:00 - [6] - Quote Bleh, it is problematic since they increased their turn speed. Not all fall for this trap. People in PC especially can track you just fine. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2589	Posted - 2014.05.17 13:23:00 - [7] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: I am obsessed with how simple this is. I usually get their back but I NEVER move around them. Thank you. Going to practice that now thanks. Should save me some suits. +1 That ROF reminds me of my Breach & TAC ARs. Cool. I just bait and RE most of the time. Or, well, used to. I usually just used to go behind them, pull 2 shots of the SG, then start doing this on a 2m radius.
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1525	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:42:00 - [8] - Quote i just call a heavy and kill them. or a tank.. or a ***** slap them with flux smg on my assault. tbh my duel wielding side arm fit seems to have no issue with heavies..i use car 9 burst scp on shields and smg on their armor and just run around them in circles but besides simples tactics most heavies cant tell they're head from they're ass..allot of heavies are just straight up nubs and are only running heavy because its all they can run with. granted in scout /heavy/tank 514 i can understand sticking to one of those three roles ..i personally cannot enjoy limiting myself to just heavy tank scout..even though i have all three i stilll like using my assault and logi.. also md tears them up just destroys heavies ehp
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13465	Posted - 2014.05.17 15:02:00 - [9] - Quote This worked well when they actually had turn speed limits... You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 277	Posted - 2014.05.18 20:32:00 - [10] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Obviously, this is something most veteran FPS players will debate the hell out of so this isn't meant for you guys, lol. Mostly just beginner stuff but it's how I was taught back in the day when they actually had turn speed restrictions. http://i.imgur.com/poVOxr5.gif Basically, the theory is that because of their slow movement you can generally out-maneuver them. HMGs have an insanely high fire rate so attempting to do a side-to-side, oval or 'v' strafe will inevitable incur some damage on you. Moving around in a wide circle puts them on the defense as they have to turn fast enough to land hits. Lot of players have trouble with that by over-compensating (kicking in aim acceleration) and aiming too far ahead or not turning fast enough to land shots. Inevitable problem though is that it requires a lot of open space to move around, so it doesn't work too well for corridor combat like in your typical Gallente Research Facility maps. Anyway, it was just a random GIF I found and decided to share. Run and jump around them and aim for the head.

THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. 773	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:19:00 - [11] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Personally I just rely on the heavy to not have an insane amounts of reps so that I can duck into cover and take him in chunks. This. I just hit until my shields drop and run until I recover over and over again until they die. TDBS "Does Krin want his gun back?" - sub random nub
Eko Sol Strange Playings 326	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:40:00 - [12] - Quote Why is it that people have to win every fight against a heavy? Just run if you can. If you are bricked tank logi that is confronted by a heavy you already effed up by being slow. The easiest way to beat a heavy is either shot gun, RE's, they are already without shields or low on EHP in general AND you get the jump on them OR you are a heavy yourself. OR you freaking run. Just get away and do something the hell else. I don't understand why you have to beat one. BTW, doing the circular thing doesn't actually work b/c of serious hit detection issues. I've literally ran so fast that I was looking at the back of the heavy (obviously ran past him) and was firing shots before it could even turn to see me and I die. This happened often enough that I can honestly say it doesn't work b/c the damage registers if the "aimer" is on you when they fired the weapon and not whether the bullet hits you. It happens with blaster tanks. The best way to see this in action is to go somewhere high with a RR. Keep the aimer on the fast scout running in a straight line perpendicular to you and fire. You'll see that zero bullets actually land on the scout but the damage registers. Heavies are no different. I beat heavies with my scout suit by picking my battles. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. 773	Posted - 2014.05.18 22:06:00 - [13] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: --snip-- Why do heavies feel so entitled? I have a proto heavy suit and proficiency 5 HMG and proficiency 3 forge. I don't understand it. TDBS "Does Krin want his gun back?" - sub random nub
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5673	Posted - 2014.05.19 07:59:00 - [14] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Eko Sol wrote: --snip-- Why do heavies feel so entitled? I have a proto heavy suit and proficiency 5 HMG and proficiency 3 forge. I don't understand it. Using a heavy suit used to require skill now any monkey can do well in one. This. It should never, -EVER- require another heavy to kill a heavy. We tried that with tanks Nah, in a game about rock/paper/scissors style balancing, there needs to be counters. Completely different or at the very least -similar- counters that are not the same. If it requires a heavy with an HMG to kill a heavy (which I would call a stalemate of who has the higher skill investment at that point) than the game is encouraging a flatlined playstyle. Further more, if that is the case, why run anything else? Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3023	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:11:00 - [15] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This worked well when they actually had turn speed limits... I have no issues with turn speed. I get killed by shout shotties and tanks as a heavy. RE's I hear and the rest is me being dumb, in a bad position, etc. BUT, I like dat GIF Aeon. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5674	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:20:00 - [16] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This worked well when they actually had turn speed limits... I have no issues with turn speed. I get killed by shout shotties and tanks as a heavy. RE's I hear and the rest is me being dumb, in a bad position, etc. BUT, I like dat GIF Aeon. I like the Scout vs Heavy meta but it probably shouldn't require an entire tank just to down a heavy lol >_>;;; Yeah, I thought the GIF was pretty cool too.... Just wish they had one for different types of strafing =\ Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3024	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:29:00 - [17] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This worked well when they actually had turn speed limits... I have no issues with turn speed. I get killed by shout shotties and tanks as a heavy. RE's I hear and the rest is me being dumb, in a bad position, etc. BUT, I like dat GIF Aeon. I like the Scout vs Heavy meta but it probably shouldn't require an entire tank just to down a heavy lol >_>;;; Yeah, I thought the GIF was pretty cool too.... Just wish they had one for different types of strafing =\ No doubt. In PC I got a lot of complaints against the use of RE's pre 1.8 when I encountered teams that were spamming heavies. But the fact of the matter was that I didn't feel like I was using a cheap tactic so much as realizing that this was the ideal means of countering 4-5 heavies spamming a point until 1.8 also gave me quite a problem with shotties and cloaks. As the the tanks, no I promise you it's just particularly easy to get redline railed OR blasted by tanks with impunity as an HMG heavy. I've even taken to simply reducing myself to running forge with SMG as my primary weapon until I see a tank in ambush matches . CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 464	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:34:00 - [18] - Quote AS a Heavy that runs at 7.44m/s I have to say the only thing that can kill me on a regular basis are scouts with cloaks and wallhack like passive scans shooting me in the back with a shotgun like cowards. I hate shotty scouts. So much. @JebusMcKing
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3024	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:37:00 - [19] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: AS a Heavy that runs at 7.44m/s I have to say the only thing that can kill me on a regular basis are scouts with cloaks and wallhack like passive scans shooting me in the back with a shotgun like cowards. I hate shotty scouts. So much. I know right!? Shotty scouts make me so paranoid! :3 I really hope fix that bug that allows you to shoot cloaked soon. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE duna corp 37	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:49:00 - [20] - Quote Ideed. A full squad of scout is unstopable, as a heavy you can't survive longer because you gonna die for RE's or cloack bug. most of heavys are getting bored of this If you read this you probably going to die by my tank. Dust is not dead, stop biomassing like scrubs.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5675	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:56:00 - [21] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: Ideed. A full squad of scout is unstopable, as a heavy you can't survive longer because you gonna die for RE's or cloack bug. most of heavys are getting bored of this Honestly there's so many factors into the whole mix-up it's just a mess. - HMGs were never balanced to accomodate a longer TTK - Armor Plates are easily spammed in the great HP buffer war (this applies to everyone, not just heavies) - Can't hear anything behind you because of an animation optimization, so no footsteps - Shooting while cloaking - etc. There's a lot of things that play into it and I feel like it would be far too easy to over-compensate and be too heavy handed on any of them. Needs to proceed delicately. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4223	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:10:00 - [22] - Quote Heavy's are for combat superiority. I don't see any reason they should bow to the whims of rock-paper-scissors anything. So long as any other suit has something to contribute, they are not entitled to being able to beat a heavy 1v1 without an incredibly good setup. They are harder to position and contribute nothing other than combat potential in a limited area. Put anyone else on even ground with them and why the hell would you ever deploy a heavy? They just wouldn't be versatile enough to be relevant in a serious game. The entitlement complex comes from the fact that they have literally no role other than combat. If they aren't the absolute best at their job within that limited sphere of influence, why even have them in the game? What the hell else are they contributing? We rely on other peoples reps, other peoples ammunition, other peoples uplinks and other peoples radar. CCP is even talking about removing the Heavy's ability to hack anything. We are either better than the other suits are at combat, or we're worthless. That's all there is to it.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5675	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:13:00 - [23] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Heavy's are for combat superiority. I don't see any reason they should bow to the whims of rock-paper-scissors anything. So long as any other suit has something to contribute, they are not entitled to being able to beat a heavy 1v1 without an incredibly good setup. They are harder to position and contribute nothing other than combat potential in a limited area. Put anyone else on even ground with them and why the hell would you ever deploy a heavy? They just wouldn't be versatile enough to be relevant in a serious game. The entitlement complex comes from the fact that they have literally no role other than combat. If they aren't the absolute best at their job within that limited sphere of influence, why even have them in the game? What the hell else are they contributing? We rely on other peoples reps, other peoples ammunition, other peoples uplinks and other peoples radar. CCP is even talking about removing the Heavy's ability to hack anything. We are either better than the other suits are at combat, or we're worthless. That's all there is to it. I agree. We should remove Assaults and Commandos. Their role is absolutely pointless. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4223	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:21:00 - [24] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Heavy's are for combat superiority. I don't see any reason they should bow to the whims of rock-paper-scissors anything. So long as any other suit has something to contribute, they are not entitled to being able to beat a heavy 1v1 without an incredibly good setup. They are harder to position and contribute nothing other than combat potential in a limited area. Put anyone else on even ground with them and why the hell would you ever deploy a heavy? They just wouldn't be versatile enough to be relevant in a serious game. The entitlement complex comes from the fact that they have literally no role other than combat. If they aren't the absolute best at their job within that limited sphere of influence, why even have them in the game? What the hell else are they contributing? We rely on other peoples reps, other peoples ammunition, other peoples uplinks and other peoples radar. CCP is even talking about removing the Heavy's ability to hack anything. We are either better than the other suits are at combat, or we're worthless. That's all there is to it. I agree. We should remove Assaults and Commandos. Their role is absolutely pointless. Assaults need limited vertical movement. That gives every frame a reliable and useful battle gimmick which contributes something tactical to the game. Assaults with vertical movement are able to transition across structures and gain tactical vantage points. Scouts have the fastest land speed movement and the best stealth/radar configuration. Logistics are the masters of equipment spam and... well, logistics. Heavy's are dedicated face-melters who are not to be screwed around with unless you either have a friend or an incredible vantage point/trap. Commandos are already removed in Legion, and assaults effectively mimic them at the moment in that game.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5675	Posted - 2014.05.19 11:47:00 - [25] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Heavy's are for combat superiority. I don't see any reason they should bow to the whims of rock-paper-scissors anything. So long as any other suit has something to contribute, they are not entitled to being able to beat a heavy 1v1 without an incredibly good setup. They are harder to position and contribute nothing other than combat potential in a limited area. Put anyone else on even ground with them and why the hell would you ever deploy a heavy? They just wouldn't be versatile enough to be relevant in a serious game. The entitlement complex comes from the fact that they have literally no role other than combat. If they aren't the absolute best at their job within that limited sphere of influence, why even have them in the game? What the hell else are they contributing? We rely on other peoples reps, other peoples ammunition, other peoples uplinks and other peoples radar. CCP is even talking about removing the Heavy's ability to hack anything. We are either better than the other suits are at combat, or we're worthless. That's all there is to it. I agree. We should remove Assaults and Commandos. Their role is absolutely pointless. Assaults need limited vertical movement. That gives every frame a reliable and useful battle gimmick which contributes something tactical to the game. Assaults with vertical movement are able to transition across structures and gain tactical vantage points. Scouts have the fastest land speed movement and the best stealth/radar configuration. Logistics are the masters of equipment spam and... well, logistics. Heavy's are dedicated face-melters who are not to be screwed around with unless you either have a friend or an incredible vantage point/trap. Commandos are already removed in Legion, and assaults effectively mimic them at the moment in that game. Heavies are for point defense. This has always been the case. They're not just supped up Assault Suits that are better slayers, they have a role and it's a very focused role as opposed to general front-line combat. Edit: Either way, this argument doesn't belong in this thread. Move on. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182


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