DUST Search - An effective way to deal with Heavies

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Heavy's are for combat superiority. I don't see any reason they should bow to the whims of rock-paper-scissors anything. So long as any other suit has something to contribute, they are not entitled to being able to beat a heavy 1v1 without an incredibly good setup. They are harder to position and contribute nothing other than combat potential in a limited area. Put anyone else on even ground with them and why the hell would you ever deploy a heavy? They just wouldn't be versatile enough to be relevant in a serious game.

The entitlement complex comes from the fact that they have literally no role other than combat. If they aren't the absolute best at their job within that limited sphere of influence, why even have them in the game? What the hell else are they contributing? We rely on other peoples reps, other peoples ammunition, other peoples uplinks and other peoples radar. CCP is even talking about removing the Heavy's ability to hack anything. We are either better than the other suits are at combat, or we're worthless.

That's all there is to it.

I agree. We should remove Assaults and Commandos. Their role is absolutely pointless.

Assaults need limited vertical movement. That gives every frame a reliable and useful battle gimmick which contributes something tactical to the game.

Assaults with vertical movement are able to transition across structures and gain tactical vantage points.

Scouts have the fastest land speed movement and the best stealth/radar configuration.

Logistics are the masters of equipment spam and... well, logistics.

Heavy's are dedicated face-melters who are not to be screwed around with unless you either have a friend or an incredible vantage point/trap.

Commandos are already removed in Legion, and assaults effectively mimic them at the moment in that game.


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Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5654	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:00:00 - [1] - Quote Obviously, this is something most veteran FPS players will debate the hell out of so this isn't meant for you guys, lol. Mostly just beginner stuff but it's how I was taught back in the day when they actually had turn speed restrictions. http://i.imgur.com/poVOxr5.gif Basically, the theory is that because of their slow movement you can generally out-maneuver them. HMGs have an insanely high fire rate so attempting to do a side-to-side, oval or 'v' strafe will inevitable incur some damage on you. Moving around in a wide circle puts them on the defense as they have to turn fast enough to land hits. Lot of players have trouble with that by over-compensating (kicking in aim acceleration) and aiming too far ahead or not turning fast enough to land shots. Inevitable problem though is that it requires a lot of open space to move around, so it doesn't work too well for corridor combat like in your typical Gallente Research Facility maps. Anyway, it was just a random GIF I found and decided to share. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5654	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:03:00 - [2] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: 1. Do that 2. RE 3. ??? 4. Feast on the tears Hah. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5673	Posted - 2014.05.19 07:59:00 - [3] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Eko Sol wrote: --snip-- Why do heavies feel so entitled? I have a proto heavy suit and proficiency 5 HMG and proficiency 3 forge. I don't understand it. Using a heavy suit used to require skill now any monkey can do well in one. This. It should never, -EVER- require another heavy to kill a heavy. We tried that with tanks Nah, in a game about rock/paper/scissors style balancing, there needs to be counters. Completely different or at the very least -similar- counters that are not the same. If it requires a heavy with an HMG to kill a heavy (which I would call a stalemate of who has the higher skill investment at that point) than the game is encouraging a flatlined playstyle. Further more, if that is the case, why run anything else? Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5674	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:20:00 - [4] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This worked well when they actually had turn speed limits... I have no issues with turn speed. I get killed by shout shotties and tanks as a heavy. RE's I hear and the rest is me being dumb, in a bad position, etc. BUT, I like dat GIF Aeon. I like the Scout vs Heavy meta but it probably shouldn't require an entire tank just to down a heavy lol >_>;;; Yeah, I thought the GIF was pretty cool too.... Just wish they had one for different types of strafing =\ Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5675	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:56:00 - [5] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: Ideed. A full squad of scout is unstopable, as a heavy you can't survive longer because you gonna die for RE's or cloack bug. most of heavys are getting bored of this Honestly there's so many factors into the whole mix-up it's just a mess. - HMGs were never balanced to accomodate a longer TTK - Armor Plates are easily spammed in the great HP buffer war (this applies to everyone, not just heavies) - Can't hear anything behind you because of an animation optimization, so no footsteps - Shooting while cloaking - etc. There's a lot of things that play into it and I feel like it would be far too easy to over-compensate and be too heavy handed on any of them. Needs to proceed delicately. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5675	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:13:00 - [6] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Heavy's are for combat superiority. I don't see any reason they should bow to the whims of rock-paper-scissors anything. So long as any other suit has something to contribute, they are not entitled to being able to beat a heavy 1v1 without an incredibly good setup. They are harder to position and contribute nothing other than combat potential in a limited area. Put anyone else on even ground with them and why the hell would you ever deploy a heavy? They just wouldn't be versatile enough to be relevant in a serious game. The entitlement complex comes from the fact that they have literally no role other than combat. If they aren't the absolute best at their job within that limited sphere of influence, why even have them in the game? What the hell else are they contributing? We rely on other peoples reps, other peoples ammunition, other peoples uplinks and other peoples radar. CCP is even talking about removing the Heavy's ability to hack anything. We are either better than the other suits are at combat, or we're worthless. That's all there is to it. I agree. We should remove Assaults and Commandos. Their role is absolutely pointless. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5675	Posted - 2014.05.19 11:47:00 - [7] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Heavy's are for combat superiority. I don't see any reason they should bow to the whims of rock-paper-scissors anything. So long as any other suit has something to contribute, they are not entitled to being able to beat a heavy 1v1 without an incredibly good setup. They are harder to position and contribute nothing other than combat potential in a limited area. Put anyone else on even ground with them and why the hell would you ever deploy a heavy? They just wouldn't be versatile enough to be relevant in a serious game. The entitlement complex comes from the fact that they have literally no role other than combat. If they aren't the absolute best at their job within that limited sphere of influence, why even have them in the game? What the hell else are they contributing? We rely on other peoples reps, other peoples ammunition, other peoples uplinks and other peoples radar. CCP is even talking about removing the Heavy's ability to hack anything. We are either better than the other suits are at combat, or we're worthless. That's all there is to it. I agree. We should remove Assaults and Commandos. Their role is absolutely pointless. Assaults need limited vertical movement. That gives every frame a reliable and useful battle gimmick which contributes something tactical to the game. Assaults with vertical movement are able to transition across structures and gain tactical vantage points. Scouts have the fastest land speed movement and the best stealth/radar configuration. Logistics are the masters of equipment spam and... well, logistics. Heavy's are dedicated face-melters who are not to be screwed around with unless you either have a friend or an incredible vantage point/trap. Commandos are already removed in Legion, and assaults effectively mimic them at the moment in that game. Heavies are for point defense. This has always been the case. They're not just supped up Assault Suits that are better slayers, they have a role and it's a very focused role as opposed to general front-line combat. Edit: Either way, this argument doesn't belong in this thread. Move on. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182