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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
13384
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Posted - 2014.05.16 16:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
In the high slots there isn't much reason to do anything but stack shield extenders, unless you're a Gal/Cal scout.
A complex shield extender will perform much better than a complex damage modifier until you're around 1000 EHP.
I'm going to drag up some old maths for this - this was with old numbers. It is even more slanted in favour of the shield extender after rifle damage was reduced and damage modifiers were nerfed.
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The base HP of a C-1 frame is 210 shields and 120 armour, for a total of 330 HP (the ratio of shield:armour doesnGÇÖt actually matter to an element neutral weapon). With the complex shield extender, that goes up to 402 HP. Both rifles have a base DPS of 430 (about average for an assault variant rifle in 1.7). The damage modded one has a DPS of 473. It will take the extender-fit frame 0.76 seconds to kill their opponent. It will take the damage mod fit frame 0.84 seconds to kill their opponent.
All other things being equal, the extender fit frame wins the fight. LetGÇÖs look at the proto level. Consider a ck.0 with four extenders vs a ck.0 with three extenders and a damage mod. The base DPS of the rifles has jumped to 470, due to the higher tier gear. The damage modded rifle now hits 517 DPS. The extender fit ck.0 has 553 shields and 150 armour, for a total of 703 HP. The damage mod fit ck.0 has 631 HP. It will take the extender-fit frame 1.34 seconds to kill their opponent. It will take the damage mod fit frame 1.36 seconds to kill their opponent.
After the TTK changes and the damage modifier nerfs in a 1v1 situation it's now silly to use a damage modifier over a shield extender. Previously it was justifiable in that damage modifiers gave you a tactical advantage in the form of being able to 'gank' opponents but with a 3-5% change per module that sometimes doesn't even mean a single bullet's difference (ergo, zero difference in TTK for fitting the damage mod).
Precision enhancers are not useful on anything but a scout, as the base precision on non-scout frames and base scan range is not worth amping up with %-based modules.
Myofibril stimulants can be amusing for some gimmick fits, but they're useless in a competitive situation.
This leaves shield extenders as the one module worth using for the majority of situations (the exceptions being if you are a scout or a sniper).
Do not nerf shield modules. Shield tanking is generally not as good as armour tanking at the moment.
I would say that all high slot modules are in need of some tweaking.
Discuss.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Oswald Rehnquist
1352
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Posted - 2014.05.16 16:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hard to get creative in Dust when most of the advance work is going towards legion. If this is legion brain storming then I'd could come up with quite a few, but here is one just to keep it simple and to keep it in line with CCP's tweaking of armor.
Armor Idea, with a low number of high slots, you'd need an armor module that works with that in mind.
As I mentioned in CCP's official Armor tanking is broken thread "paraphrased", there could be a high slot armor plate which is built around a reduction on alpha damage or the first second of an attack, etc. Sort of like an "active passive" module, it could have a built in cool down as another balancing variable.
Below 28 dB
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
13385
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Posted - 2014.05.16 16:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Hard to get creative in Dust when most of the advance work is going towards legion. If this is legion brain storming then I'd could come up with quite a few, but here is one just to keep it simple and to keep it in line with CCP's tweaking of armor.
Rattati seems to be asking for feedback and this isn't a topic covered in one of the sticky threads so I thought I'd post it here.
This isn't about armour. This is about high slot modules in general. I'm not really suggesting new ones so much as I'm suggesting tweaks to the ones we have.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Oswald Rehnquist
1352
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Posted - 2014.05.16 16:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
The simplest solution would be to collapse modules then
combine Myofibril + KinCats
combine regulators and rechargers (make it a high)
Below 28 dB
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2023
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Posted - 2014.05.16 17:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Hard to get creative in Dust when most of the advance work is going towards legion. If this is legion brain storming then I'd could come up with quite a few, but here is one just to keep it simple and to keep it in line with CCP's tweaking of armor.
Rattati seems to be asking for feedback and this isn't a topic covered in one of the sticky threads so I thought I'd post it here. This isn't about armour. This is about high slot modules in general. I'm not really suggesting new ones so much as I'm suggesting tweaks to the ones we have.
This is only a 'first blush' thought but what would the implications be of considering a touch up on the skills related to some/all of these mods to allow them more functionality? (clearly this question isn't just a solve on it's own, but I figured I'd throw it into the mix )
Cheers, Cross
SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
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Cyrus Grevare
WarRavens Final Resolution.
201
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Posted - 2014.05.16 18:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
As someone mentioned somewhere sometime ago, giving Myofibril stimulants a bonus to jumping power might make it more attractive. It's easy to see how the same module that gives you added punching power can do the same for your legs.
Don't think it'd be difficult to implement since armor plates seem to add a penalty to jumping speed as guessing by the SDE data, the relevant attributes seem to be these:
mCharProp.movementSprint.jumpSpeed mCharProp.movementRun.jumpSpeed
Having Myofibril stimulants give their bonus to these attributes will likely make you jump higher :p, curse those railings!
www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
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Defy Gravity
411
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Posted - 2014.05.17 05:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Agreed +1
poop
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MINA Longstrike
766
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Posted - 2014.05.17 09:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cyrus Grevare wrote:As someone mentioned somewhere sometime ago, giving Myofibril stimulants a bonus to jumping power might make it more attractive. It's easy to see how the same module that gives you added punching power can do the same for your legs. Don't think it'd be difficult to implement since armor plates seem to add a penalty to jumping speed as guessing by the SDE data, the relevant attributes seem to be these: mCharProp.movementSprint.jumpSpeed mCharProp.movementRun.jumpSpeed Having Myofibril stimulants give their bonus to these attributes will likely make you jump higher :p, curse those railings!
If myo's gave +100% to jump height and speed, I would be using a 3x complex myo, 3x kincat scout and jumping 20+ meters a jump. None would escape my nova knives.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
13488
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Posted - 2014.05.18 13:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Cyrus Grevare wrote:As someone mentioned somewhere sometime ago, giving Myofibril stimulants a bonus to jumping power might make it more attractive. It's easy to see how the same module that gives you added punching power can do the same for your legs. Don't think it'd be difficult to implement since armor plates seem to add a penalty to jumping speed as guessing by the SDE data, the relevant attributes seem to be these: mCharProp.movementSprint.jumpSpeed mCharProp.movementRun.jumpSpeed Having Myofibril stimulants give their bonus to these attributes will likely make you jump higher :p, curse those railings! If myo's gave +100% to jump height and speed, I would be using a 3x complex myo, 3x kincat scout and jumping 20+ meters a jump. None would escape my nova knives.
Aaaand this is why they don't give 100% to jump height and speed.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2069
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Posted - 2014.05.19 19:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pushing this back to the top, and still chewing on the idea in hopes of coming up with something more meaningful to contribute.
~Cross
Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens Final Resolution.
2697
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Posted - 2014.05.20 10:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think a shift of our current modules being switched from low to high and vice versa, with a balance more akin to EVE, would be a great start. I feel some modules don't play well with certain playstyles in the position they exist.
For example, we have rechargers in the highs, this creates very uncompetitive shield recharging builds due to they lack of overall HP. Or post 1.8 when armor tanks could boast high HP and very high damage.
I wrote this a couple months back on how I see the restructuring of high slot and low slot modules should be
Quote:Key: (--) high slot (-) low slot
So my suggestion is:
High slot modules:
>Shields
*Shield extenders (--) {high CPU/low PG}
*Shield booster (--) {Regulator} {high CPU/Low PG} (Numerical increase to shield repair values or a timed boost to shield HP)
>Kinetic catalyzer (--) {low CPU/High PG} (Does not affect strafing speeds can counter forward speed loss for Armor but agility remains slow, similar to EVE)
>Profile dampener (--) {high CPU/Low PG}
>Code breaker (--) {vanilla}
>Range amplifiers (--) {vanilla}
Low slot modules:
>Armor
*Armor plate (-) {high PG/Low CPU}
*Armor repairers (-) {high PG/Low CPU}
*Reactive plates (-) {low PG/High CPU}
*Ferro scale plates (-) {med PG/med CPU}
>Cardiac regulators (-) {high PG/ low CPU}
>Damage amplifiers (-) {low PG/High CPU}
>Shield recharging
*Shield energizer (-)
*Shield rechargers (-)
>Precision enhancers (-)
There is a balance between utility modules between lows and highs.
Lows contain shield utility modules, damage modifiers, stamina modules, precision enhancers , and armor.
Highs contain utility modules, speed modifiers, dampeners, and shields.
Markdown:
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect
1226
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Posted - 2014.05.20 19:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:This leaves shield extenders as the one module worth using for the majority of situations (the exceptions being if you are a scout or a sniper). Well as you say, if you're over 1000HP you get more value %-wise from a damage mod. So that's all sentinels, some commandos, and some logis that get value from the damage mod. So it's only really assaults that lack choice. That's not great, I suppose, but I think there are more pressing issues. |
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