I donGÇÖt necessarily agree with the EVE example, it remains a really difficult progression system to understand. Legion is not and will not be EVE, even if both games share the same universe. We have many reasons justifying that choice: we are not the same business model (subscription vs free to play), we are not talking to the same target audience (hardcore MMO players vs Online FPS Players). That isnGÇÖt to say that their progression system isnGÇÖt great and applicable to EVE GÇô only that it does not necessarily fit the game we want Project Legion to become.
I think that the new system will allow both: accessibility for new users to understand, while keeping the high level complexity of mix-matching modules, weapons and Dropsuits.

Im sure thats not what he meant xD, I sure he just means that Legion isn't a complicated game, and thus doesn't need to have over complications like a skill system that mirrors EvE.

Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity.

Casual gamers are what make up the overwhelming majority. They are what pay the bills with a game like Dust514/Legion.

Still, doesn't mean we need a derp version of anything.

I don't think he's calling us dumb, I think he's saying we're not the target audience.

I raised a concern with this very same comment in the stickied thread; I'm not sure this required a whole new thread.

I believe this is the point he was trying to make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU

Something else to remember are cultural differences. What might offensive to us might not be offensive in his native language and culture.

Tooltips, ISIS, certificates, and a proper tutorial are all that's needed. EVE is tons clearer and easier to follow with them, without taking away any of the complexity and customization.

red light this dream.

Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread.

1- I am not calling anybody dumb
2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not
3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible.

I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :)

I don't know about that... When I was a baby Merc back in Chromosome, I was walking around shooting people with my rifle, and suddenly a guy with a mini gun melts me.

I thought 'ooh damn I want one of those!' And I went and got one. And then I discovered I needed a suit for it, too ( didn't realise MLT was a thing...). So then I went and did that.

As long as they're not constraining us by role, and just structuring it by role, which seems to be the case, I can fit as many RRs to my sentinels as I have slots (i.e. One.); I just need to invest a small amount of SP to unlock them.
Looking at the tree Z provided, weapons are the lowest branch of the tree; in conjunction with DUST's layout with the cheapest being at the bottom, I very much doubt that the investment will be high, and for people like myself back in my noob stage, it'd be very helpful.

And once you work out how to customise your fittings properly and competently without needing your hand held, you shod have enough SP to skill things anyway.

I'm just not sold on the loss of the 1-5 system, tbh, or more specifically (because it is a stupid system IMO) the loss of complexity from the loss of prototype modules.

If I can fit a basic reactive and a complex extender to my suit in Legion (or the equivalents thereof) I will be happy.

95% of the people who tried DUST did not? Where does this number come from? Can I please see a study that proves this? Because I am willing to bet that most people that gave up on DUST did not enjoy being thrown to the proto-wolves after 2-3 academy battles. It has very little to do with the skill progression system.

The skill progression system only limits what players can do. If someone brings out a proto tank, I can't bring out a proto swarm launcher because I haven't skilled into it, even though I have plenty of ISK to buy one. Remove the skill tree and proto stomping will quickly be tempered by the economy.

Would that mean that anyone can buy all proto gear? Yes, and that's a good thing. But it may not always be the smartest thing to do. Buying better quality gear will deplete my wallet much faster than buying more economical fits.

Does this mean that corporations can provide proto gear to their members? Yes. For that, I say: Welcome to New Eden. If you allowed people to choose who to fight and where, avoiding certain players becomes a strategic maneuver.

I'm just looking for a little clarification:

When the presentation goes over how weapons will be grouped by roles. Does this mean you have to have an assault suit to unlock the assault riffle? Or will we have a system like the current system, but instead of everything in the "light weapons" or "heavy weapons" group you'll have sections designated by role? I really hate the former and would much prefer the latter.

Also, as far as the weapons, broken up into common, uncommon, and rare, Id like to say this really doesn't fit with the spirit of EvE. It fits more in the Blizzard Diabo/WoW realm of things. I believe if you're going to call them anything, call them either Tech I, Tech II, or Factional weapons. I would say as well that no weapon should be better then a previous version, it should have different qualities, or have more strengths but more weaknesses.

I'm not into the whole "Every suit is a BPO" either. The emotional attachment is to the fitting, not to the suit itself. Losing your suit is a unique twist that should stick around, it gives this FPS a unique twist which is a good thing.

I'm just looking for a little clarification:

When the presentation goes over how weapons will be grouped by roles. Does this mean you have to have an assault suit to unlock the assault riffle? Or will we have a system like the current system, but instead of everything in the "light weapons" or "heavy weapons" group you'll have sections designated by role? I really hate the former and would much prefer the latter.

Also, as far as the weapons, broken up into common, uncommon, and rare, Id like to say this really doesn't fit with the spirit of EvE. It fits more in the Blizzard Diabo/WoW realm of things. I believe if you're going to call them anything, call them either Tech I, Tech II, or Factional weapons. I would say as well that no weapon should be better then a previous version, it should have different qualities, or have more strengths but more weaknesses.

I'm not into the whole "Every suit is a BPO" either. The emotional attachment is to the fitting, not to the suit itself. Losing your suit is a unique twist that should stick around, it gives this FPS a unique twist which is a good thing.

I disagree. It may not have a place or feel fit in EVE, but to make a sweeping assumption like this in regards to New Eden as a whole (and by proxy, every game that is set in the Universe) is fairly presumptious. EVE, Valkyrie and Project Legion are different games, with different intended audiences and playtimes (see the CCP Presents Keynote).

The current 5 tier system adds choice in SP investment compared to reward. To a new player can get 1-3 LV in a skill with minimal investment while still adding a lot to whats available to them in game. While an older player will come back to the same skill and get it to level 5 because they need the extra few % to get a slight edge. This part of the system that needs to move into legion.

What legion doesn't need is all the 5 tier skills that unlock items at 1,3,5 and that's it. They just act as clutter on the skill screen and how no purpose at 2,4. Also when adding extra ammo to a firearm, there is no reason for it to be a %. They could be changed into a 2 tier skill, each level giving another clip/magazine worth of ammo.

The hard thing is for a new player to understand what skills are affecting what piece of gear, or what they need to use it. A solution to this would be use the fitting screen in a mode that acts like Pyfa/EFT in EVE. The player use the tool knowing it doesn't represent their current ability to use it. But they still are able to see the fit they want to use in the game. Then they can visually see what skills are in red and level them right there if they have the SP. Combine this with each of the equipment showing all the skills that currently affect it. So an older player can see what would happen to if it was maxed out.


Cliffs:
1. Current system is fine needs a few minor changes.
2. Over complexity of current system comes from how the player have to use it. Not the way it works.
3. We need an IN GAME Pyfa/EFT like tool.

This is pretty lame. How about splitting the tree up by racial parity? For example:

Caldari dropsuit -> Caldari medium, heavy, light -> specialized suits.
Caldari weaponary -> Caldari Light, Heavy, Sidaarm -> specialized weapon skills.
Caldari Vehicles -> Caldari LAV, HAV, DS -> specialized vehicles.

Then when someone is picking there race, explain to them that races doctrine.

- Caldari prefer long range weapons like railguns and missles with strong shield defenses.
- Minmatar prefer explosive weaponry along with high rate of fire weapons and speed.
- Gallante prefer plasma based close range weaponry and quick repairing armor.
- Ammar prefer laser based medium ranged weaponry and heavy armor.

Then you have your person pick what fits their play style the best and you will see them naturally progress into the racial variants of their suits and weapons. Then you just need to actually balance each weapon that parity's with another racial weapon (ie combat rifle <-> rail rifle <-> plasma rifle <-> scrambler rifle).