+1. I agree totally.

CCP Z's post added nothing to the discussion; everything he said I could have got out of his presentation.

I don't like, for example, the implication that I need to actually skill a particular suit to access a particular module, no matter how little SP it may take. I'm not suggesting that our current system is perfect, but to paraphrase Winston Churchill, it's better than all the one you've suggested.

I like thats it's going to stop the ridiculous fits like heaves with light weapons, however it also feels like its going to stop a lot of theory crafted suits, like plasma cannon scouts and the like. I would love to see some heavy weight diagrams describing how it's going to look so people can see it before it's released in the beta. I would hate for all of that hard work to not add up to much. On the other hand I would also love all of his hard work pay off!

EVE: Legion will be just another cookie cutter fps. Calling it now.

Project Legion is far from done. It has not even entered proper alpha phase. But sure, you can call it now. If you don't like what you called, why are you even still on these forums? :(

The issue here is that he is using concepts from WoW (Common/Uncommon/Rare items) and progression from BF games/CoD. It scares me.

EVE: Legion will be just another cookie cutter fps. Calling it now.

I like thats it's going to stop the ridiculous fits like heaves with light weapons, however it also feels like its going to stop a lot of theory crafted suits, like plasma cannon scouts and the like. I would love to see some heavy weight diagrams describing how it's going to look so people can see it before it's released in the beta. I would hate for all of that hard work to not add up to much. On the other hand I would also love all of his hard work pay off!

EVE has tech 1, Faction, and Deadspace, which are basically just fancy names for common, uncommon, and rare (or common as dirt, rare, and really rare) - so long as the the drop rates are sufficiently low (and therefore the prices high) that they're only really used in battles that really matter, like proto was supposed to be, I don't have a problem with that aspect of the proposal.

EDIT: Just so long as they aren't actually called common, uncommon and rare in the actual game, that would be a step too far.

I like thats it's going to stop the ridiculous fits like heaves with light weapons, however it also feels like its going to stop a lot of theory crafted suits, like plasma cannon scouts and the like. I would love to see some heavy weight diagrams describing how it's going to look so people can see it before it's released in the beta. I would hate for all of that hard work to not add up to much. On the other hand I would also love all of his hard work pay off!

EVE has tech 1, Faction, and Deadspace, which are basically just fancy names for common, uncommon, and rare (or common as dirt, rare, and really rare) - so long as the the drop rates are sufficiently low (and therefore the prices high) that they're only really used in battles that really matter, like proto was supposed to be, I don't have a problem with that aspect of the proposal.

EDIT: Just so long as they aren't actually called common, uncommon and rare in the actual game, that would be a step too far.

I still don't understand why we can't just go with the ISIS system, or make that tree optional. I don't like being forced to do jack ****..........

I still don't understand why we can't just go with the ISIS system, or make that tree optional. I don't like being forced to do jack ****..........

Okay, I dont care if I get banned for this, but I believe it is a legit question:

Why does CCP Z have the role of Progression and Monetization Manager?

That role just feels wrong. I have a concern that he is going to design the skill tree to generate $ for CCP rather than to offer a good experience for us players.

How can he not be biased?

So... Your goal is to make the skill tree more accessible. I definately agree with this! But you probably should not waste time on revamping it from scratch, since that will take a lot of manhours, and we do not want the game to be delayed!!! I will describe how to save development time in the following section.

There is a way to make both the hardcore theorycrafters from EVE and the instant gratification crowd pleased. And this concept already exists in the game (in a crude sense):
The graphical skill tree/Skill tree list.

In Diablo 3, there is a game option to enable advanced customization (check box in the game menu, which is off by default on new accounts), I.E. remove the conditional dependence between certain modules and slots. This kind of supportive game option could be great support wheels for the new players, while at the same time offering the option to remove the support wheels and offer a interesting and complex skill tree for the hardcore theorycrafters.

So how would this be implemented?

1. Add an option in the game menu related to advanced skill progession OFF/ON (OFF by default for new players).
2. The option should enable/disable a skill tree overlay UI that makes it more accessible and add 'conditioned' paths through the skill tree.
3. If the option of advanced skill progession is enabled, there should be no dependence between dropsuits, modules and weapons, other than what we have today.

I do not support your wild card idea, it gives me and many others the picture that you did not design the system well enough from the beginning.

Funny you should mention Diablo III.

That's the last game which was also ruined when marketing was given priority over development of the game.

There is a way to make both the hardcore theorycrafters from EVE and the instant gratification crowd pleased. And this concept already exists in the game (in a crude sense):
The graphical skill tree/Skill tree list.

...

So how would this be implemented?

1. Add an option in the game menu related to advanced skill progession OFF/ON (OFF by default for new players).
2. The option should enable/disable a skill tree overlay UI that makes it more accessible and add 'conditioned' paths through the skill tree.
3. If the option of advanced skill progession is enabled, there should be no dependence between dropsuits, modules and weapons, other than what we have today.

I do not support your wild card idea, it gives me and many others the picture that you did not design the system well enough from the beginning.