DUST Search - Legion Skill Progression

Leeroy Gannarsein wrote:

ZDub 303 wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

The meta level.

Meta level in Eve often refers to little things that are not immediately apparent. Things like lower fitting requirements, more efficient use of the capacitor, etc.

For example: An Oneiros fitted with Sansha modules in the mid slots are able to handle themselves better in an Incursion fleet looking for effective Armor Logistic ships compared to an Oneiros fitted only with Tech II modules. Faction, Officer, and Deadspace modules and weapons in Eve are much more effective than their T2 counterparts due to these subtle advantages but they are exceedingly expensive. But regardless, they are often used even in null-sec fleets.

Whats the difference between standard and prototype gear then if not meta level?

Prototype is higher meta level than standard.
Rare is higher meta level than common.

So.... whats the difference between the two systems? (standard vs proto now and common vs rare in proposed legion system)

I'm assuming that proto in this context is comparable to tech 2 items, in that they're easily accessible but expensive, whereas rare might refer to officer gear and similar; gear that is actually rare and hard to find. Dropping into an ambush tells me protogear is bit at all rare.

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Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 55	Posted - 2014.05.12 15:11:00 - [1] - Quote So if I'm reading this right, CCP Z's solution to the (arguably) over complicated skill tree is to 'simplify' it. How will that affect endgame content i.e. Protogear? Without the 1-5 system, how will I access Complex Armour Repairers? Will they exist, or will it just be a single variant? Are passive skills going to exist? Will there be a way to actually differentiate myself from a new player in a greater degree than simply gear? I appreciate that my having 25% EHP passively over a new player and more than 2x after mods is a bad thing, but I don't see how removing customisation is a logical solution to that. I don't know if someone has addressed this specific issue already, but I didn't see anything specifically regarding module levels or passive skills in CCP Z's (why Z, out of curiosity?) presentation. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14921	Posted - 2014.05.12 15:25:00 - [2] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: So if I'm reading this right, CCP Z's solution to the (arguably) over complicated skill tree is to 'simplify' it. How will that affect endgame content i.e. Protogear? Without the 1-5 system, how will I access Complex Armour Repairers? Will they exist, or will it just be a single variant? Are passive skills going to exist? Will there be a way to actually differentiate myself from a new player in a greater degree than simply gear? I appreciate that my having 25% EHP passively over a new player and more than 2x after mods is a bad thing, but I don't see how removing customisation is a logical solution to that. I don't know if someone has addressed this specific issue already, but I didn't see anything specifically regarding module levels or passive skills in CCP Z's (why Z, out of curiosity?) presentation. Protogear no longer exists. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2861	Posted - 2014.05.12 15:50:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: So if I'm reading this right, CCP Z's solution to the (arguably) over complicated skill tree is to 'simplify' it. How will that affect endgame content i.e. Protogear? Without the 1-5 system, how will I access Complex Armour Repairers? Will they exist, or will it just be a single variant? Are passive skills going to exist? Will there be a way to actually differentiate myself from a new player in a greater degree than simply gear? I appreciate that my having 25% EHP passively over a new player and more than 2x after mods is a bad thing, but I don't see how removing customisation is a logical solution to that. I don't know if someone has addressed this specific issue already, but I didn't see anything specifically regarding module levels or passive skills in CCP Z's (why Z, out of curiosity?) presentation. Protogear no longer exists. What is the difference between rare gear and prototype gear though? Just skill requirement?
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Final Resolution. 1810	Posted - 2014.05.12 16:07:00 - [4] - Quote My guess is that there will be some kind of difference between the higher level gears. Even if it isn't called "Prototype", there has to be some kind of carrot to use the higher level stuff otherwise was is the point? It may just be a "Armor Repairer" that gets boosted by skills to the level of what Complex is now but that doesn't solve any problems currently. It just means that someone with 33 million SP has to actually equip and use their 'prototype' gear to get an advantage over someone with 3 million SP. With the change, they use the same gear but 33 million SP person gets 'prototype' level numbers out of it while 3 million SP player only gets 'basic' level numbers. I think with the meta level matchmaking, it probably won't matter too much in regards to public matches. If someone is using 'prototype' level gear they will be fighting people who also have 'prototype' level gear. The problem I see is with modules that suuuucccckkk until they are 'prototype' level. Basic Armor Plates are good, Enhanced are good, and Complex are good. Basic Shield Extenders are a total joke, Advanced Shield Extenders are a joke, and Complex Shield Extenders are decent. If the meta thing goes through with the current numbers, Shield Extenders are going to be worthless for lower meta level fights. I almost wonder if the drastic change is a little bit too much of a change. It is so alien to what everyone is used to that everyone is going to be lost with it; Vet and New Player alike. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyBrg7DnrYI&list=UUxA6K5KVbSpMkjPqYh2gIBQ In the video, someone mentions that Z is thinking about a "Wild Card" thing so you don't have to go down a certain tree just to get a module in that tree. It's... gonna be a weird adaptation. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2014.05.13 01:04:00 - [5] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: So if I'm reading this right, CCP Z's solution to the (arguably) over complicated skill tree is to 'simplify' it. How will that affect endgame content i.e. Protogear? Without the 1-5 system, how will I access Complex Armour Repairers? Will they exist, or will it just be a single variant? Are passive skills going to exist? Will there be a way to actually differentiate myself from a new player in a greater degree than simply gear? I appreciate that my having 25% EHP passively over a new player and more than 2x after mods is a bad thing, but I don't see how removing customisation is a logical solution to that. I don't know if someone has addressed this specific issue already, but I didn't see anything specifically regarding module levels or passive skills in CCP Z's (why Z, out of curiosity?) presentation. Protogear no longer exists. See, this is my question. I've just started skilling CalScout (as in I have level one) and in my single low slot I like to fit a basic reactive plate. I could fit an enhanced if I wanted, but there's no speed penalty with basics. Are you saying I don't have this option in Legion? MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8520	Posted - 2014.05.13 01:30:00 - [6] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: So if I'm reading this right, CCP Z's solution to the (arguably) over complicated skill tree is to 'simplify' it. How will that affect endgame content i.e. Protogear? Without the 1-5 system, how will I access Complex Armour Repairers? Will they exist, or will it just be a single variant? Are passive skills going to exist? Will there be a way to actually differentiate myself from a new player in a greater degree than simply gear? I appreciate that my having 25% EHP passively over a new player and more than 2x after mods is a bad thing, but I don't see how removing customisation is a logical solution to that. I don't know if someone has addressed this specific issue already, but I didn't see anything specifically regarding module levels or passive skills in CCP Z's (why Z, out of curiosity?) presentation. Protogear no longer exists. What is the difference between rare gear and prototype gear though? Just skill requirement? The meta level. Meta level in Eve often refers to little things that are not immediately apparent. Things like lower fitting requirements, more efficient use of the capacitor, etc. For example: An Oneiros fitted with Sansha modules in the mid slots are able to handle themselves better in an Incursion fleet looking for effective Armor Logistic ships compared to an Oneiros fitted only with Tech II modules. Faction, Officer, and Deadspace modules and weapons in Eve are much more effective than their T2 counterparts due to these subtle advantages but they are exceedingly expensive. But regardless, they are often used even in null-sec fleets. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2221	Posted - 2014.05.13 01:58:00 - [7] - Quote I honestly don't get why we just don't have a structured system, and what we have now, and the structured system is optional........ or just bring in ISIS click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 634	Posted - 2014.05.13 05:01:00 - [8] - Quote Again I find myself in agreement with most posters here. I dont really understand this whole new system and then these 'wild cards'. It seems kinda obsolete and pointless. Give new players a fancy tutorial and nice visuals to see and guide their progression - let us vets use a system similar to what we already have. To be honest we need to hear more from CCP Z and the others and really get more details on all of this.
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 58	Posted - 2014.05.13 08:58:00 - [9] - Quote I've been thinking about it while I was at work; I don't see how this is good for the game. I think a good compromise would be making levels one, two and three the unlocks, with levels four and five being passive bonuses, as well as (possibly) nerfing the base item and increasing the bonuses from the skill. Off the top of my head, this means you'd nerf basic plates to 70, and increase the bonus to 6% per level, thereby incentivising higher SP expenditure, but also removing the necessity to skill to 5 to get access to top-tier mods (which are, let's face it, often the only ones worth using). MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2838	Posted - 2014.05.13 12:11:00 - [10] - Quote From what I understand, there will be no proto gear, no proto modules, no proto weapons, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Instead each variation has different positives and negatives. This allows for more customization without the current trend, of proto stomping because someone has 3 times as much health as someone else. However what has me worried is having weapons, equipment and modules locked to specific skill trees, the wildcard system doesn't solve it and is proably most gonna be araum/microtransaction driven. Instead of unlocking weapons/modules/equipment I would prefer if you unlocked bonuses to them instead, for example a logistics suit fitted out for AV duties. Bonuses Skill Set: +200% Launcher Max Ammo Capacity -50% Nanite Cost for Explosive Weaponry +30% Launcher Projectile Velocity +3 RE Max Ammo Capacity And then a seperate skill tree applies for modules and weapons respectively. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!

ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2871	Posted - 2014.05.13 14:39:00 - [11] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The meta level. Meta level in Eve often refers to little things that are not immediately apparent. Things like lower fitting requirements, more efficient use of the capacitor, etc. For example: An Oneiros fitted with Sansha modules in the mid slots are able to handle themselves better in an Incursion fleet looking for effective Armor Logistic ships compared to an Oneiros fitted only with Tech II modules. Faction, Officer, and Deadspace modules and weapons in Eve are much more effective than their T2 counterparts due to these subtle advantages but they are exceedingly expensive. But regardless, they are often used even in null-sec fleets. Whats the difference between standard and prototype gear then if not meta level? Prototype is higher meta level than standard. Rare is higher meta level than common. So.... whats the difference between the two systems? (standard vs proto now and common vs rare in proposed legion system)
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 67	Posted - 2014.05.13 14:42:00 - [12] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: The meta level. Meta level in Eve often refers to little things that are not immediately apparent. Things like lower fitting requirements, more efficient use of the capacitor, etc. For example: An Oneiros fitted with Sansha modules in the mid slots are able to handle themselves better in an Incursion fleet looking for effective Armor Logistic ships compared to an Oneiros fitted only with Tech II modules. Faction, Officer, and Deadspace modules and weapons in Eve are much more effective than their T2 counterparts due to these subtle advantages but they are exceedingly expensive. But regardless, they are often used even in null-sec fleets. Whats the difference between standard and prototype gear then if not meta level? Prototype is higher meta level than standard. Rare is higher meta level than common. So.... whats the difference between the two systems? (standard vs proto now and common vs rare in proposed legion system) I'm assuming that proto in this context is comparable to tech 2 items, in that they're easily accessible but expensive, whereas rare might refer to officer gear and similar; gear that is actually rare and hard to find. Dropping into an ambush tells me protogear is bit at all rare. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... VOTE 1 CCP BLOWOUT
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2871	Posted - 2014.05.13 15:56:00 - [13] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: The meta level. Meta level in Eve often refers to little things that are not immediately apparent. Things like lower fitting requirements, more efficient use of the capacitor, etc. For example: An Oneiros fitted with Sansha modules in the mid slots are able to handle themselves better in an Incursion fleet looking for effective Armor Logistic ships compared to an Oneiros fitted only with Tech II modules. Faction, Officer, and Deadspace modules and weapons in Eve are much more effective than their T2 counterparts due to these subtle advantages but they are exceedingly expensive. But regardless, they are often used even in null-sec fleets. Whats the difference between standard and prototype gear then if not meta level? Prototype is higher meta level than standard. Rare is higher meta level than common. So.... whats the difference between the two systems? (standard vs proto now and common vs rare in proposed legion system) I'm assuming that proto in this context is comparable to tech 2 items, in that they're easily accessible but expensive, whereas rare might refer to officer gear and similar; gear that is actually rare and hard to find. Dropping into an ambush tells me protogear is bit at all rare. So, in reality, prototype gear does still exist, it just has a new name, its harder to get and therefore more expensive. and 'possibly' doesn't require additional SP to unlock.


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