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Stupid Blueberry
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
433
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
How bad CCP Z's idea for the Legion Skill system is.
Chillin, waitin on Legion.
Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!
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Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
399
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Please elaborate on the parts you think are bad.
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hold that
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
116
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
"We thank you for that" |
Stupid Blueberry
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
433
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
13:44 the way he's thinking about having certain weapons bound to dropsuits.
Chillin, waitin on Legion.
Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
764
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:13:44 the way he's thinking about having certain weapons bound to dropsuits.
I'm hoping he means you get certain bonuses good certain weapons on suits, cause if not that's kinda silly.
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Kelestia Colvolian
DUST'S Rouge Wedding
114
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hmm, I got the impression the lad hadn't really thought through what he was presenting.
It wouldn't surprise me if Rouge, on the Pub Crawl the night before, mentioned to Z the that he wanted him to give a talk the next day, so Z just scribbled down a few ideas on the back of a beer mat.
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Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
399
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:13:44 the way he's thinking about having certain weapons bound to dropsuits. I have my reservations about that too, but just to be clear:
CCP Z wrote:Keep in mind we are keeping what we currently have, meaning an item that you get from that tree is something you unlock, meaning if you unlock part of the logistic tree and the sentinel tree you can still mix-match items and modules between the two dropsuits. It's just, again, more just for newcomers to look at it. Also, looking at the weapons on the logistics tree example, I imagine there will be overlap where different roles get some of the same weapons and items. As long as items that can only be unlocked on a certain tree make sense to only be on that tree, I don't see a problem with it.
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Kelestia Colvolian
DUST'S Rouge Wedding
114
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gaelon Thrace wrote:CCP Z wrote:Keep in mind we are keeping what we currently have, meaning an item that you get from that tree is something you unlock, meaning if you unlock part of the logistic tree and the sentinel tree you can still mix-match items and modules between the two dropsuits. It's just, again, more just for newcomers to look at it. Also, looking at the weapons on the logistics tree example, I imagine there will be overlap where different roles get some of the same weapons and items. As long as items that can only be unlocked on a certain tree make sense to only be on that tree, I don't see a problem with it.
But didn't Z say something in the questions about that each role had different weapons and items. That was why they hadn't made a role for the Commando suit because it was a hybrid of all the others?
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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
1380
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah I don't like the sound of the new system.
Its seems like a step backwards. They used a fitting system for Dust 514 that ould have been much better on the PC.
Now they are moving to the PC, they are making a fitting system that seems like it would be more at home on a console.
We shall see, its early days yet.
"We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
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Aoena Rays
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
435
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
His presentation was very high level, don't think this is even close to being locked in though... So yeah he said to give feedback, but don't think of it like a done thing |
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MINA Longstrike
748
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
This equipment / suits / weapons / modules unlocked by clusters is just plain ****ing moronic. There is very few issues with the current skill tree and they fall down to 'it isn't straightforward' and 'there are dead skills in the tree'. And all that needs to be done to make it straightforward is a simple tab on the dropsuits with 'recommended items/skills/equipment' just like they had in eve with the certificate system, and the dead skills simply need a tiny bit of tweaking.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Stupid Blueberry
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
439
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:This equipment / suits / weapons / modules unlocked by clusters is just plain ****ing moronic. There is very few issues with the current skill tree and they fall down to 'it isn't straightforward' and 'there are dead skills in the tree'. And all that needs to be done to make it straightforward is a simple tab on the dropsuits with 'recommended items/skills/equipment' just like they had in eve with the certificate system, and the dead skills simply need a tiny bit of tweaking.
Pretty much this. Thank you for articulating these thoughts for me, I've been up all night wrangling kittens and can't really think straight 
Chillin, waitin on Legion.
Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Dirt Nap Squad.
1797
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
i hate setting up dust to work like battlefield.
http://www.reddit.com/r/evelegion
tell ccp what you think of legion.
eatsbabies cienfuegos
steward of the renegade alliance.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
764
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
soooo do we not get to see the composite running tallies of this survey?
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Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
937
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:This equipment / suits / weapons / modules unlocked by clusters is just plain ****ing moronic. There is very few issues with the current skill tree and they fall down to 'it isn't straightforward' and 'there are dead skills in the tree'. And all that needs to be done to make it straightforward is a simple tab on the dropsuits with 'recommended items/skills/equipment' just like they had in eve with the certificate system, and the dead skills simply need a tiny bit of tweaking.
What you talking bout? The current skill system is fuckin ********. There are just SP sinks everywhere that give no bonus or negligible ones.
We've been complaining about the skill system forever and now that they are trying something new we want the ****** system we have now?
Only this community.  |
Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
937
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't see a problem with it.
What I took away from that is you have to do extra work if you want to use weapons outside their role.
If I wanna be a heavy and use an RR, I'll have to put work into it.
If I wanna be a logi that primarily slays, I'll have to work for those weapons.
If I wanna be a scout that packs a little more punch, I'll have to work for it.
Since when is earning the right to use something a bad thing in a game? Especially when the system will make players go into a role they otherwise might not have wanted to, and maybe learned to like the role at the end his journey. |
Phoenix 85
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:13:44 the way he's thinking about having certain weapons bound to dropsuits.
Theres another video out where he says each suit tree would have a wildcard skill so you could add any weapon you like.
However, I agree with you, I dont like it at all. Would much rather keep the current system and redo NPE to explain it to newbies better.
Dust 514 cancelled, EvE players be like
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Dirt Nap Squad.
2750
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Its all about the NPE though. Most of us understand the skill system but I guess they said a lot of blueberries never got past the assault rifle because they didn't know how to (believe what you will).
They did say you will have the same freedom to fit your dropsuits today, they are just organizing their skill tree a bit to be more clear for newbies.
Someone asked in this roundtable video about what happens if I want to use x weapon on a different skill tree. He said they've been discussing that exact situation and gave an idea about wildcards allowing you to bypass skill tree restrictions and stuff.
I wouldn't worry about it too much yet, they've got some time to iterate on it. We're seeing some early ideas on a better NPE is all.
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3294
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
What are you talking about? The new skill system is exactly what new players need, it's the NPE that should have been here all along.
It even helps out vets by giving us the ability to skill into only the items we want to skill into. For example, the assault variants of rifles would each be their own separate node that we unlock. Instead of spending 600k sp to unlock all of the variants, you will only have to spend a fraction of that cost...unless you want all of the other weapon variants.
For the new player...if they skill into logistics for support, then they will find support weapons in that area. If they skill into sentinel, they will find heavy and breach weapons there.
Links:
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I make logistics videos!
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Phoenix 85
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Duran Lex wrote:I don't see a problem with it.
What I took away from that is you have to do extra work if you want to use weapons outside their role.
If I wanna be a heavy and use an RR, I'll have to put work into it.
If I wanna be a logi that primarily slays, I'll have to work for those weapons.
If I wanna be a scout that packs a little more punch, I'll have to work for it.
Since when is earning the right to use something a bad thing in a game? Especially when the system will make players go into a role they otherwise might not have wanted to, and maybe learned to like the role at the end his journey.
That's an unnecessary SP sink. I shouldnt have to skill through logistics to get RE's.
Dust 514 cancelled, EvE players be like
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Ankbar Latrommi
S.e.V.e.N.
General Tso's Alliance
124
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
The problem I have with the new skill tree layout is the loss of roleplaying. I know I'm a minority in that, and Dust/Legion is to be an MMOFPS not an MMORPG nor an MMORPFPS(that would be awesome in my opinion). I have mourned the constant erosion of meaningful character creation choices in Eve:Online for a long time, and this is just another one.
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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Phoenix 85
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Its all about the NPE though. Most of us understand the skill system but I guess they said a lot of blueberries never got past the assault rifle because they didn't know how to (believe what you will). They did say you will have the same freedom to fit your dropsuits today, they are just organizing their skill tree a bit to be more clear for newbies. Someone asked in this roundtable video about what happens if I want to use x weapon on a different skill tree. He said they've been discussing that exact situation and gave an idea about wildcards allowing you to bypass skill tree restrictions and stuff. I wouldn't worry about it too much yet, they've got some time to iterate on it. We're seeing some early ideas on a better NPE is all.
Perhaps assaultrifle should be named something else so it isnt the default goto rifle.
Dust 514 cancelled, EvE players be like
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Erobthedude
0uter.Heaven Academy
98
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
What the game(s) need(s) is a VR room where you can access any dropsuit or weapon for simulation gameplay, then make your choice in the skill tree. A feature like this could also help vets decide on new weaponry vehicles etc.
"Dear Lord, without you we are butt dust."
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Cai Mo
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
26
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aside from the increased sp-sink he discussed about (given that fittings are not hard-linked with roles), I was mostly dissagreeing with his statements about dropsuit usage.
I do not need a bpo to feel more connected with my suit as I already love the suit I'm skilled into and have to replace every death. I do like to see a wardrobe filled with my shiny suits tho, but we don't need bpo suits for that since it could just as well be filled with my prefitted/prepaid suits.
Mostly I dissagreed about his statement of prototype suit usage. Having a 'free' bpo suit with increased cost on modules won't change much to the total price of my suit. And as long as the goal of a battle is to make money (as a good mercenary should) rather than winning, I'm just not gonna take out the most expensive/best stuff I have.
forum explorer, dust prospector and eve illuminati
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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
1383
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:The problem I have with the new skill tree layout is the loss of roleplaying. I know I'm a minority in that, and Dust/Legion is to be an MMOFPS not an MMORPG nor an MMORPFPS(that would be awesome in my opinion). I have mourned the constant erosion of meaningful character creation choices in Eve:Online for a long time, and this is just another one.
The problem with races is there is always one race that excells in starting ability.
Before they did away with race skill sets and stuff half of eve was caldari akura or whatever. Simply because they started with the right skill set that let you generate money fast in pve missions.
"We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
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Stupid Blueberry
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
458
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Phoenix 85 wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Its all about the NPE though. Most of us understand the skill system but I guess they said a lot of blueberries never got past the assault rifle because they didn't know how to (believe what you will). They did say you will have the same freedom to fit your dropsuits today, they are just organizing their skill tree a bit to be more clear for newbies. Someone asked in this roundtable video about what happens if I want to use x weapon on a different skill tree. He said they've been discussing that exact situation and gave an idea about wildcards allowing you to bypass skill tree restrictions and stuff. I wouldn't worry about it too much yet, they've got some time to iterate on it. We're seeing some early ideas on a better NPE is all. Perhaps assaultrifle should be named something else so it isnt the default goto rifle.
They said that they're going to be calling it the Plasma Rifle.
Chillin, waitin on Legion.
Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!
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