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Matobar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
250
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Posted - 2014.05.04 14:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, things happened. People are angry. I'm not really surprised.
Most of you don't know me. I just lurk on the forums a lot. I'm not the most dedicated player or the most knowledgeable one, but there's one thing I can do really, really well.
Write a freaking awesome essay.
So I'm going to use my writing skill to explain exactly why what CCP did was really, really bad, dumb, stupid, ******, nonsense, and all those other adjectives.
Some things to note: I use a lot of outside material for this write-up, so please at least glance at the links I post if you want to get as much out of reading this as possible. I also want to acknowledge all the things I source and thank them for their contributions to this write-up.
In addition: I love that this is the first response to CCP's devblog announcement. It always makes me smile glancing at it.
Part 1: Before Fanfest:
So, apparently, DUST 514 was being retooled for PC as of "months ago," according to the CPM. Which is all well and good in and of itself, but it speaks to CCP's continued lack of business savvy or simple followthrough. According to CCP's own VP of product development:
Sean Decker wrote: Sean Decker is the VP of Product Development at CCP, and he told Polygon the days of waiting a few years to show off a game while hoping the fans like it are done. "Put it out in front of them, see if they like it," You can find his full statement here. So let me ask as simple a question as I can: if your own VP doesn't think you should keep developments a secret, why was Project Legion kept a secret from us, your DUST 514 players? According to EVE Vegas, you remained Laser Focused on the PS3 as of November. That's half a year ago now, I know, but when did it switch from "Laser Focus" to diverting staff from DUST 514 to this new project of yours?
Simply put: you let the DUST 514 players down. Here we are, all 100,000 of us, playing a game you know is bad (as admitted by Sean Decker in the Polygon article), and you've been diverting resources to something the majority of us, as console players, will not see. Remember CCP, it was your decision to put DUST on the PS3. It was your decision to include console fans in your EVE Universe. You have every right to try again, however you want to, but doing a 180 and saying the PC is the future amounts to a middle finger for the people who have been playing your self-admitted bad game for the last two years.
We, the players, deserved to know. We deserved to know about Project Legion as soon as it was being considered. We deserved to know it was going to be on PC. We deserved to know its development, or pre-development, or whatever, was taking resources away from the development of the game we were playing. We deserved to know about this well ahead of Fanfest. We deserved to know you were taking all of our DUST feedback over these last months and putting it into a game a lot of us won't be playing. We deserved to know that time taken from Fanfest, time you at CCP labeled as DUST 514 time on all your schedules and devblogs, was instead going to be all about something you people even admit has not yet received a greenlight from your superiors! We deserved better to be blindsided in this way.
Part 2: Fanfest
So the project was announced at Fanfest. In possibly the most dickish way possible. According to Nova Knife's blog, the entirety of the CPM had warned and pushed for CCP to announce Project Legion months ahead of Fanfest. Months. So, more than one? Ripard Teg's own take on this also explains that he and others knew, in advance, that this reveal would not go over well. I think we can safely say it hasn't. CCP, if you're not going to listen to the CPM, the people you brought on to represent us as the DUST 514 community, and announce your project ASAP, what kind of message does that sent? Do you just not take this community seriously? Did you honestly think we'd be happy with this news, especially in the way it was revealed?
Ripard Teg's piece goes into why he thinks the DUST 514 Keynote was poop. I'd like to add my own thoughts to this as well. The only time the console crowd was mentioned, in any capacity, was during the beginning of the Keynote, when JC asked everyone to applaud Sony for their contributions to DUST 514. That's really it. Afterwards, we saw some interesting stats, and then the focus shifted entirely to touting Project Legion. And the PC. And the tech demo. And then it was over.
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Matobar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
250
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Posted - 2014.05.04 14:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
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ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
995
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Posted - 2014.05.04 14:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
I enjoy the first response too, ...
Still reading.
xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own...
So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
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chill amarr
Austrian Tactical Hacker Corp
11
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
just want to add that last month with cancel of WoD the they were 'full committed to dust '.... with trashing ita month later....-.- https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2056856#post2056856 |
Global Enforcer
Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad.
167
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dude your speech was spot on CCP ****** everyone in the ass that has or stil plays dust
BPO-> K61-D13
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Mr Sanchez Asst
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hey Saberwing, LogiBro- come to these forums, please and clearly address THIS issue!
Be honest with those of us still reeling from the blow you have struck
Why did you do this? Why have you misled us about where CCP was focused with this product?
Why did you wait until the Dust keynote and fanfest to reveal what you are doing?
Tell us why. And tell us how you won't ever do it again.
And you will still be the liars and cash focused greed driven, hierarchy dependent spineless wretches that these actions make all of CCP appear to be
Don't like harsh words? They are spoken by PEOPLE that feel being treated harshly and callously by YOU justifies thier clealy spoken message.
But CCP doesn't get the value of clearly spoken messages |
Kinky Burrito
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
217
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Global Enforcer wrote:Dude your speech was spot on CCP ****** everyone in the ass that has or stil plays dust
You ****** yourself in the ass by playing it this long. |
Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
1272
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
this is pretty much how we see CCP clicky
us being the top picture and CCP being the bottom picture
Markdown
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
237
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
That was a great read, i lost so much respect for CCP. It's safe to say i will not purchase Anything from them in future. Not mad i just know they can't be trusted. CCP use ti be my favorite Dev but not any more.
What a disaster lol. |
DustMercsBlog
Galactic News Network
129
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
that was beautiful. we posted it on our blog.
matobar if you'd ever like to do op-eds or editorials in the future let us know. |
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Laz Ulian Sol
The Solecism of Limitation
233
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yep, agreed with most of your points.
Also, points to signature.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2129384
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Deamonwrath21 DeathReign
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
6
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Matobar wrote:Part 2: Fanfest (cont.)Seriously, the entire presentation took about 22 minutes. CCP, you had a freaking hour to spend. And you just walked off the stage as though you thought there was going to be no issue whatsoever. What about some news for DUST 514 during the DUST 514 Keynote CCP? Is its development continuing? Is it being axed? How does it relate to Project Legion? All of that could have been covered for the rest of the presentation, as a sort of "Oh yes we currently have 100,000 players on the PS3 and shouldn't forget about them" kind of move, perhaps. Or do we need to rely on post-presentation news articles like this one, with headlines like: "Dust 514 sees no planned updates, scraps survival mode and Vita app" to get our information? Do you know what kind of message that sends to us? It says you'd rather spend your time filling in outside press than your own playerbase, who you've told a completely different story. It's also telling that all of your DUST 514 presentations at Fanfest were actually about Project Legion, something that you continue to stress is not greenlit. Why are you telling us about Project Legion at Fanfest as though it's already a sure-thing if it isn't greenlit CCP? Did you forget about DUST 514, the game you actually released, that you actually admit is a bad game, and that you have actual players for? Or is it just less important to you than telling us all how cool your new toy is going to be? This all strikes me as extremely disingenuous on your part, CCP. Ostensibly setting aside time for our game, the game you've already made, DUST 514, and then throwing it out the window to talk about something your players never wanted is extremely dishonest. Maybe you didn't mean any harm, and legitimately thought we'd be excited. Well, we're not, and that was a dumb thing to think. Either way, you made a huge mistake, and now we're all mad at you. Part 3: What Next?So what's next CCP? We're all pissed. You've gone and screwed up everything with your "Project Legion." You didn't listen to your CSM or CPM, things you yourself put in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening. You've angered your current players for your current game on the PS3, in favor of your hypothetical players on your hypothetical game on the PC. You even spent the last Keynote at Fanfest trumpeting EVE United for the PC, which tells us you really don't want to be on consoles anymore. And you know what CCP? I'm ok with that. Go ahead and be on PC. I understand the things you wanted to do with DUST 514 just aren't feasible on the PS3. I understand the game's future lies on better hardware. I even understand you being faithful to your EVE playerbase. But you know what I don't understand? The need to lie to 100,000 loyal customers for months when our representatives were telling you not to. The need to **** us over at Fanfest. The need for talking to the media days before you came to us with the truth. The need to scramble for emergency roundtables and summits with the CPM who are just going to say "We told you so," hopefully in annoyingly high octaves, when all you needed to do was make one forum post, one devblog, one tweet, letting us know what was going on in Shanghai. Maybe you'll say "there was never a good time." And you'd be right. The PS3 fanbase you've built will never react well to a PC DUST version that's getting all the cool stuff you promised they'd have years ago. But you know what? You skipped straight to "the worst time possible" by telling us when you did. But maybe your executives will keep calling us "bumps in the road" to a great product. I hope you're happy with the result of your actions CCP. Yep i bout a PlayStation 4 with high hopes for a newer dust 514 on ps4 now my heart torwards dust and ccp is dying and if we dont get anything anounced for ps4 at e3 or soon, i fear planetside 2 will take all dust 514 console players |
Matobar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
268
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Posted - 2014.05.04 17:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
DustMercsBlog wrote:that was beautiful. we posted it on our blog.
matobar if you'd ever like to do op-eds or editorials in the future let us know.
Sounds good to me :)
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Guiltless D667
32
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Posted - 2014.05.04 17:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pretty much,it would have been all well and fine if CCP actually talked to us about this months ago they would have save themself so much fire.As a sole PS3 for 6 years,i cant say Im furious,anger,or upset as im not the type of person to get over emotional over something like this,BUT I am disappointed,im disappointed that CCP doesn't know who their player base is for Dust and now probably never will after shooting themself in the foot.
A Strange Game.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
710
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Posted - 2014.05.04 17:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mr Sanchez Asst wrote:Hey Saberwing, LogiBro- come to these forums, please and clearly address THIS issue!
Be honest with those of us still reeling from the blow you have struck
Why did you do this? Why have you misled us about where CCP was focused with this product?
Why did you wait until the Dust keynote and fanfest to reveal what you are doing?
Tell us why. And tell us how you won't ever do it again.
And you will still be the liars and cash focused greed driven, hierarchy dependent spineless wretches that these actions make all of CCP appear to be
Don't like harsh words? They are spoken by PEOPLE that feel being treated harshly and callously by YOU justifies thier clealy spoken message.
But CCP doesn't get the value of clearly spoken messages
You see blue tags but you wont get any questions that are Dust related at all .
They tag the legion threads only .
Wonder why ???
Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
710
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Posted - 2014.05.04 17:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kinky Burrito wrote:Global Enforcer wrote:Dude your speech was spot on CCP ****** everyone in the ass that has or stil plays dust You ****** yourself in the ass by playing it this long.
I just don't understand people like you because you yourself are here too else you wouldn't be able to comment on the matter .
You like some are just sucking until the last drop huh ???
CCP must taste that good to some , either your with us or against us .. and it's clear where you stand so just keep gobbling it up bub ... make sure you wipe your chin when your done and brush as well .
Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
5156
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Posted - 2014.05.04 17:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pretty sure they realize how bad it was at this point.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
1359
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Posted - 2014.05.04 17:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Wow.
Essentially the past 2 days of forum posts expressed coherently and concisely in 2 sections.
Very well written.
+1 to you sir, and if I can remember/find the time, you will get a nice, large, useless isk donation to your account.
Nos Nothi for Life
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Ducttape Tinker
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
111
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Posted - 2014.05.04 18:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
They lazor focus somehow broke itself, or maybe change direction for our ideas and community money. You know they need support somehow that dust2.0 port for pc.
Just disgusting behaviour, hell they even used our ideas for that, and what we have from it NADA, Nothing, ZERO.. GG CCP, your scam was acomplished in most possible vile way what i ever saw in my gaming years (and hell it from 1988)!!
"Just return back to see how this dust falling in to rust."
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Cyrus Militani
Leon Conglomerate
26
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Posted - 2014.05.04 18:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well said. |
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Pliny Eldritch
SCIENCE FOR LIFE Galactic Skyfleet Empire
5
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Posted - 2014.05.04 18:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
The part about this that really gets me is CCP's burning desire to go off and make a new mercs-on-the-ground game with blackjack and hookers. This is shown especially in this bit from the Digital Spy article:
Quote:"The thing with Dust 514 is that it's a full-on product in flight," he said. "I say in flight, because it's really difficult to change the engine of a plane in flight, and that's what Dust 514 is.
"You could not, I feel, iterate without putting that plane down, fixing it, and putting it back up. I'm not about to do that with Dust, because Dust is a really good experience out there, and that's something we should all remember
Really? Have you heard of a company called CCP that took a pretty graphical skin on top of TradeWars 2000 and iterated it into a massive open world sandbox game?
A straight port to Unreal Engine 4 on both PS4 and PC would keep the current player base playing and give CCP the technological breathing room they need to evolve Dust into the game they want Project Legion to be. It would also seriously reduce the risks involved in developing an entirely new game. A badly received patch doesn't make nearly as much news as a botched game launch. |
Matobar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
284
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Posted - 2014.05.04 18:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pliny Eldritch wrote:The part about this that really gets me is CCP's burning desire to go off and make a new mercs-on-the-ground game with blackjack and hookers. This is shown especially in this bit from the Digital Spy article: Quote:"The thing with Dust 514 is that it's a full-on product in flight," he said. "I say in flight, because it's really difficult to change the engine of a plane in flight, and that's what Dust 514 is.
"You could not, I feel, iterate without putting that plane down, fixing it, and putting it back up. I'm not about to do that with Dust, because Dust is a really good experience out there, and that's something we should all remember Really? Have you heard of a company called CCP that took a pretty graphical skin on top of TradeWars 2000 and iterated it into a massive open world sandbox game? A straight port to Unreal Engine 4 on both PS4 and PC would keep the current player base playing and give CCP the technological breathing room they need to evolve Dust into the game they want Project Legion to be. It would also seriously reduce the risks involved in developing an entirely new game. A badly received patch doesn't make nearly as much news as a botched game launch.
What is funny to me about that is that he's saying DUST 514 is a good experience, when Sean Decker, who I quoted in the original essay, said it was a bad one that needs to be redone.
I guess CCP confuses itself sometimes.
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