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Ric Barlom
Seraphim Auxiliaries
382
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Posted - 2014.05.04 09:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I'm playing Mech Warrior Online these days and one of things I miss in that game is the financial management that we have in Dust and the decisions it brings with it. Should I go full proto stomp, should I go Militia, and unlike that CCP guy giving the prez I actually used Militia gear even after I had proto skills, or should I go somewhere in between these two extremes. To me the cost of the suit affected my decisions as much as the effectiveness and that made things more interesting to me. For example if I dropped into a game solo in a militia gear, I expected to get stomped by protobears in a squad but at the same time I thought it was always rewarding to kill a protobear knowing that you're eating away at their bottom line. Now in this thread I'm gonna talk about a few things that are loosely related to this very thing and it might a bit a long so bear with me here, guys.
First of all; The meta level based matchmaking. I really don't think that a "balanced matchmaking" should be a high priority goal when it comes to sandbox shooter with a strong player driven economy. I mean, sure, give new players the opportunity to learn the ropes without getting stomped on by full squads of vets. But beyond that, I think that whenever I'm dropping into a match of any kind, ISK should be a major consideration and the more artificial "regulations" are introduced into the mix, the more watered down the player driven economy and sandbox parts of the game are gonna become . At the end of the day the game shouldn't adapt to my decisions, but I should be adapting to the player driven, sandbox world that my merc is living in. Harsh? Yeah, but it's gonna add immersion, gonna make things more interesting and up the stakes. Give us tools and options, not permanent training wheels and crutches.
Next up; BPO drop-suits. So far I haven't really seen a viable explanation for this from the community, and the weak sauce reason given by the CCP dude in the progression presentation didn't really make much sense either. Basically the guy was saying "Drop-suits are so personal for every player that we don't wanna take them away from you. We want you to own them!" Guess what, bro, we already own our drop-suits as we speak. They're not just indestructible and they shouldn't be. If you weren't already working for CCP, I'd have four letters for you: HTFU. Seriously speaking that same reasoning could also be used for EVE ships, making all of them BOP too, but it would go against everything the game stands for. I think the same goes for Dust/Legion but from CCP's point of view there's a one major difference, and I really think this is the real reason for plans for BPO suits. Free to play.
In a recent GamerHub interview Jean-Charles Gaudechon confirms that the plan is to make Legion F2P and that they already have some great ideas for implementing this. I think one of these ideas is directly connected to the BPO drop-suit. I think there's gonna be a lot of Aurum suits out there, and I'm not exactly sure if it's a bad or a good idea either. This way, CCP, could make money by selling slightly different suits with a cheaper price than the current BOP suits as every single suit would be a BPO to begin with. It could be a viable option to sell different looking suits too and perhaps different colour and pattern variations as well and so on. Granted some of these things can be done with the current way of doing things but the way Dust514 handles BPOs at this moment I think the best way to go is to either have all BPO or NONE at all. Now if the blueprint was an actual blueprint and you'd still need to manufacture the suit out of this, then that'd be a whole different ballgame. I still don't like the idea of indestructible suits though and to me a permanent, indestructible doesn't fit well at all to the New Eden Vision. In fact, it's directly opposed to that.
Speaking of free to play and Aurum. I think CCP should really just focus on making a great game and implement a similar plan that LOL had in the beginning (I don't know how they handle it at the moment) where you can guy boosters to get more exp and a lot of novelty items and visual tweaks to your character with reasonable prices. No use to nickel and dime your fans. Just have confidence in your product, implement Aurum items that don't directly affect power balance and gameplay and focus on creating a game people enjoy playing. I'd also stop with the extravagant sales and just be a little bit less in your face about it. Sometimes it feels like Dust is trying to shovel this stuff down on people's throats. People will find the arum stuff they wanna buy, don't you worry CCP. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1540
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Posted - 2014.05.04 09:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
The BPO dropsuit makes sense, at least from their backwards perspective.
"Everything should focus on the dropsuit and what modules you have in it. This means that a player shouldn't be worry about 'do I bring my best dropsuit or not?' By making dropsuits BPO's and tying all prices into the modules and weapons, you can continue to have a meaningful way both AUR and ISK can be spent in the game without limiting THE most important thing to a mercenary."
It was in the DUST 514 (read: Project Legion) Progression panel. "You are not a mercenary or a soldier; you are your dropsuit. I want that to be emphasized." The analogy of Ironman was used. You are not Tony Stark, you are Ironman.
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Ric Barlom
Seraphim Auxiliaries
385
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Posted - 2014.05.04 09:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:The BPO dropsuit makes sense, at least from their backwards perspective.
"Everything should focus on the dropsuit and what modules you have in it. This means that a player shouldn't be worry about 'do I bring my best dropsuit or not?' By making dropsuits BPO's and tying all prices into the modules and weapons, you can continue to have a meaningful way both AUR and ISK can be spent in the game without limiting THE most important thing to a mercenary."
It was in the DUST 514 (read: Project Legion) Progression panel. "You are not a mercenary or a soldier; you are your dropsuit. I want that to be emphasized." The analogy of Ironman was used. You are not Tony Stark, you are Ironman.
To me that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If I'm the drop suit, how come I can have multiple different drop suits? Because I'm the clone that goes inside that drop suit, not the suit itself. Just like in EVE you're not the SHIP, you're the capsuleer. |
Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
345
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Posted - 2014.05.04 09:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
The tiered matchmaking will only apply to contracts. It will not effect sandbox areas at all.
The reason behind the BPO dropsuits was that people were skilling into Proto suits and not using them, not because they were making an economic or strategic choice, but because they simply could not afford to use them because they weren't able to grind ISK fast enough.
If you're able to buy anything related to suits with AURUM, it will have to be strictly cosmetic since dropsuits are no longer purchased, but unlocked through the progression tree.
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Ric Barlom
Seraphim Auxiliaries
385
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 10:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gaelon Thrace wrote:The tiered matchmaking will only apply to contracts. It will not effect sandbox areas at all.
The reason behind the BPO dropsuits was that people were skilling into Proto suits and not using them, not because they were making an economic or strategic choice, but because they simply could not afford to use them because they weren't able to grind ISK fast enough.
If you're able to buy anything related to suits with AURUM, it will have to be strictly cosmetic since dropsuits are no longer purchased, but unlocked through the progression tree.
Alright so if people aren't using their most expensive stuff in the first place because they can't afford them, then why do we need to implement a sophisticated system around protecting people from meeting these powerful monsters in the first place? Let people make these decisions instead. Give people the tools to mitigate the risks, increase their odds in battle and develop new strategies instead of adapting the game around them. At the end of the day you gotta use what you can afford and what makes sense to you.
Furthermore I don't think the game should be divided into sandbox part and non-sandbox part. All the elements should tie into the same immersive sandbox world that is largely supported by player driven economy. I don't wanna go into different parts of the game where different rules and regulations may or may not apply. |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
610
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Posted - 2014.05.04 10:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ok, so all the things that caused Dust to fail in the toilet, those things should be implemented into Legion. Gotcha, sounds like a recipe for success. |
Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
345
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Posted - 2014.05.04 10:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
I understand and appreciate the reasoning behind the BPO dropsuit idea, but at the same time one of the rules of EVE is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Granted capsuleers can afford a lot more than mercs, but the reason for that is that they have a lot more ways to earn ISK than we do. Another thing to consider though is that by the very nature of our game we get killed a lot more frequently than capsuleers.
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Ric Barlom
Seraphim Auxiliaries
386
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Posted - 2014.05.04 10:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gaelon Thrace wrote:I understand and appreciate the reasoning behind the BPO dropsuit idea, but at the same time one of the rules of EVE is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Granted capsuleers can afford a lot more than mercs, but the reason for that is that they have a lot more ways to earn ISK than we do. Another thing to consider though is that by the very nature of our game we get killed a lot more frequently than capsuleers.
Yeah I agree with you 100% there but I don't think the solution is to make the Dropsuit indestructible. How about lowering the price somewhat relative to the contract rewards? I mean I don't know about you, but I really enjoyed the depth that Dust provides with the options that are direct result from not having to only think about the items but also the cost of these items as well. And I don't mind going against people with different power level items because I know that there are cost drawbacks and benefits associated with those builds. So if I kill a protobear in a cheap suit, I find that very rewarding. Same thing goes for running high end gear and doing your best to absolutely destroy. I mean I get it, not everyone likes this but to me that adds both depth and fun to the game. |
Ric Barlom
Seraphim Auxiliaries
386
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 10:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shion Typhon wrote:Ok, so all the things that caused Dust to fail in the toilet, those things should be implemented into Legion. Gotcha, sounds like a recipe for success.
What exactly are the things that caused "Dust to fail in the toilet" because I don't know about you, but I never tried how well Dust does in the toilet.
On a more serious note, I'd like to know what things you're referring to here. |
meri jin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
943
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Posted - 2014.05.04 10:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:The BPO dropsuit makes sense, at least from their backwards perspective.
"Everything should focus on the dropsuit and what modules you have in it. This means that a player shouldn't be worry about 'do I bring my best dropsuit or not?' By making dropsuits BPO's and tying all prices into the modules and weapons, you can continue to have a meaningful way both AUR and ISK can be spent in the game without limiting THE most important thing to a mercenary."
It was in the DUST 514 (read: Project Legion) Progression panel. "You are not a mercenary or a soldier; you are your dropsuit. I want that to be emphasized." The analogy of Ironman was used. You are not Tony Stark, you are Ironman.
It makes a hell lot of sense!
R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014
EVE United
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Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
346
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Posted - 2014.05.04 10:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:
Furthermore I don't think the game should be divided into sandbox part and non-sandbox part. All the elements should tie into the same immersive sandbox world that is largely supported by player driven economy. I don't wanna go into different parts of the game where different rules and regulations may or may not apply.
I absolutely agree with this 110%. I never liked tiered matchmaking when it was being suggested on the forums and I don't support it for Legion either.
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Ric Barlom
Seraphim Auxiliaries
386
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 11:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Also I was kind of confused about the new "item" focused skill trees. I really hope it's not gonna dumb the system down to the lowest common denominator. I would think going PC, would mean they can afford more complexity and I really don't think the current skill system is hard to understand. Perhaps it is for that CCP dude giving that presentation. Not me, bro. |
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