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Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
269
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Posted - 2014.05.02 23:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, Dust 514 on PC. That was the big announcement. And it's something I've been wanting for a long time, and was outwardly excited at the news.
Except that wasn't the announcement. The announcement was that the Dust 514 line is being ended (through lack of meaningful updates), and that a new game, Project Legion, is going to be the vessel for all those things that Dust 514 was supposed to be.
Now as a PC player, Project Legion, from the little I've seen, looks awesome. I may actually have a chance of most of my friends playing this game, because they have all have PC's, but only one has a PS3.
But there's so much about this announcement that just isn't good, and it boils down to this: we've invested a LOT of time, and for some a lot of money, for a game that was supposed to be the vessel for all those things like player markets, industry, pve, meaningful deep EVE-Dust interaction, and so on. Dust 514 is not that game, despite us being told it was. And those of us who are PC players (I'll have some more to say about the PS3-only people later) need to be assured that our efforts will be transferred. We paid money and invested time, playing the game through those times when it just wasn't fun, to get to a stage now where it's starting to get fun (at least for me), only to be told that a new game will be the beneficiary of all those things Dust 514 was supposed to be.
The name does not matter. We didn't put our time and money into the name 'Dust 514'. We put our time and money into the game that is going to be the 10+ year FPS that CCP commits to, that has player trading and markets, and meaningful EVE-Dust interactions, pve and pvp, manufacturing, and so on. That is what CCP must acknowledge. Because that's what I put my time and money into. And the transfers must happen, and reflect that this is what I bought into.
Now we have a lot of questions, as can be seen, and I understand these are early days for Project Legion. But there's something that puzzles me deeply about the fanfest announcement. CCP should have realised that there would be people deeply upset, but I can understand when you are so involved with a project that it slips your mind. But did CCP approach the CPM about this? If they did, and the CPM did not anticipate people's reactions, then I think either: a) CCP did not tell them enough about what Legion is, or b) (however great the CPM members are) they were and are not suitable choices for the CPM. They should have been able to tell CCP how people would react. And CCP should have had answers, ready, for the keynote. It is puzzling that they did not see this, and perhaps CCP simply do not understand their customers.
With all that said, I understand why they are starting again. There are fundamental flaws with Dust 514 that prevent it from becoming the long term shooter they dreamed of. These problems may be fixable, but it would be a long road ahead. These problems solved by Legion include:
* Economy with EVE and Dust do not mix (I think I figured out how to fix this, though)
* A ton of bpo's on players -- by retaining Dust 514 but removing it from the position of being the seat of that great vision, there is no longer any question about how to properly reimburse players for removed BPO's -- no need to remove bpo's, because there is no need to get the economy in a good state in a game that is being left to die
* PS3 is a platform on its way out, and Dust failed to tap into its vast playerbase (sure they could port and run simultaneous, but then those ports to PC and PS4 are limited by the PS3)
* Sony overcharging Australian and NZ players
The problem is, Legion does not solve the problem of purchased goods. It is not going to be so clean as this. A transfer needs to not only respect skillpoints earned, but money spent, and special goods earned (for example, skinweave). BPO's, for example, need to be valued and something of equivalent value given in Legion. Aurum spent on gear needs to be reimbursed (or something of roughly equivalent value given). I realise that there will be no BPO's in Project Legion, but there will be things of value, so we can be reimbursed with those. And given that Dust 514 will be left on its own to die slowly (through lack of meaningful content updates), a transfer does not need to involve a removal of gear or characters from Dust 514. Who cares if CCP's players benefit from their achievements in both Dust 514 (a dead game), and Legion (the one that we signed up for those couple of years ago)? Don't court trouble with Sony. When Legion arrives, I won't need Dust 514, so I don't care if CCP leaves the gear on that character I won't use.
Now if CCP can pull all this off, there's still one group of players who are truly betrayed -- those who have only a PS3 for whom moving to PC is not an option. And I can't think of any easy solution for CCP. I think those who choose no transfer should be able to opt in for a full refund. That will still be a reimbursement too small for all the time (worth far more) that they invested thinking that Dust 514 was actually Project Legion. But at least a refund of their money spent will help move in the right direction.
As for me, I'd choose a transfer over a refund. I expect many players would. Project Legion could be exactly what we need -- but it needs transfers, of both skill points and most items earned (in whatever form in the new system seems reasonable as a conversion).
And I'm happy to talk with CCP as one member about what would be a fair transfer reimbursement. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
269
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 23:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
So in summary, CCP needs to respect us:
* Guarantee transfers (and actually do them, too, as a compulsory feature for Project Legion)
* Treat Dust 514 players like VIP's -- early access to Legion Beta's, generous rewards for participation (CCP needs to make money from Legion somehow, so how about giving us as freebies some of what must be paid for?)
* Reimburse for those PS3 only players all their money spent, if they ask for it, but with no transfer.
Project Legion could be exactly what is needed, but current players must be respected. The announcement was botched.
Winsaucerer
(posted also on dust514.info) |
zzZaXxx
The Phoenix Federation
349
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Posted - 2014.05.02 23:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
If they do plan on doing any of this they need to tell us soon because of course the lack of that assurance gives us the message that there won't be any transition. I know they want us to be able to transfer our accomplishments in DUST to Legion but they're not sure what they can promise yet. |
Cotsy
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
52
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Posted - 2014.05.02 23:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Winsaucerer wrote:So in summary, CCP needs to respect us: * Guarantee transfers (and actually do them, too, as a compulsory feature for Project Legion) * Treat Dust 514 players like VIP's -- early access to Legion Beta's, generous rewards for participation (CCP needs to make money from Legion somehow, so how about giving us as freebies some of what must be paid for?) * Reimburse for those PS3 only players all their money spent, if they ask for it, but with no transfer. Project Legion could be exactly what is needed, but current players must be respected. The announcement was botched. Winsaucerer (posted also on dust514.info)
There will be a complete reset at 0 for everything if this negative post by Logi Bro is any foresight. He writes: No, it's actually a matter of can we. There are technical questions and restrictions, policy questions (with Sony) and design questions (how do we convert experience when the progression system is different, items are different and ISK works in different ratios).
When we can answer the questions above, we'll share with you. Trust me when we say we want to let people carry over progress. But we just honestly don't know if we can do so yet. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
272
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 00:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:
There will be a complete reset at 0 for everything if this negative post by Logi Bro is any foresight. He writes: No, it's actually a matter of can we. There are technical questions and restrictions, policy questions (with Sony) and design questions (how do we convert experience when the progression system is different, items are different and ISK works in different ratios).
There are troubles. But this is why for example (for Sony) I recommend a transfer be more like a duplication. Don't change Dust characters, but rather make some sort of equivalent transfer. By "design questions" I assume he includes BPO's as well. BPO's won't exist in Legion, I'm quite sure. But there will be other things worth money that they can be converted into, since CCP needs to make money -- even if, at worst, it's just a bunch of plex's or something.
CCP needs to commit to doing transfers, and having a dialogue with us about what format would make for a fair transfer. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
278
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Posted - 2014.05.03 01:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wow, threads sure are moving off the front page quick. Many unhappy people. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
291
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
For anyone who cares, I have some updated thoughts on dust514.info. |
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1207
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Posted - 2014.05.04 05:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Winsaucerer wrote:
* Reimburse for those PS3 only players all their money spent, if they ask for it, but with no transfer.
We all knew that Dust 514 wouldn't last on the PS3 forever, it just ended sooner than expected. We shouldn't be offered a refund if we are offered a transfer because Dust 514 isn't being abandoned, it's just moving off the PS3 under a new name.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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