DUST Search - Its not the cloak or the scout suit that is OP

I-Shayz-I wrote:

I tried making this argument THREE TIMES. This was the community's counter argument:

-Active scanners were more OP (No they weren't, they were much easier to be avoided, and they took up an equipment slot too)
-Passive scans are not that big (doesn't matter, you only really need to see 30 meters around you anyways)
-Active scans were bright and glowy, easier to spot (hardly much of a difference, more of a distraction when players are in a blob, also you don't get a notification when you're passively scanned like you do when active scanned)

Passive scans benefit the solo slayer scout, not the team.

Honestly I feel that modules need to give us these amazing passive scans, not passive skills. It's like if my logi bonus gave me a permanant repair tool on my suit at all times, so I could use my pg/cpu/equipment slots for other things.
_______________________________________________

Maybe the best fix would to be to give scouts a bonus to the MODULES, and NOT just a suit bonus. That way you have to sacrifice module slots to get that bonus instead of just getting a bonus while stacking HP and proto weapons.

OMG I think I did it. I fixed scouts didn't I.

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The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2945	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:26:00 - [1] - Quote Its actually something that is highly underated by alot of players. Im talking about passive scans or how other people would call it "wallhack". Gallente and Caldari are the best scouts because they share the same bonus for extended passive scan range. Believe it or not but range on your passive scans are even more important because if you are inside a complex and you put a complex range amp on the scout you can easy see every 1 in medium suits and larger from up to 50m+. Basically the scout allmost allways knows where you are, where you moving and in which direction you are looking. Just think of it like having a 24/7 active scan, you can position yourself, cloak up and wait till the 2-3 guys walk past you just to shot them in the back. So next time you call the cloak OP you should be more concerned about it that the scout saw your red chevron trough walls long before he killed you with a shotgun in the back. The only exception would be other scouts which are much harder to detect and you need to make drawbacks to actually see a cloaked gallente scout. Head of public relations from The Rainbow Effect.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3123	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:29:00 - [2] - Quote Shush fool Don't listen clacks and damps are op Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Operative 2511 Dajli True Companion Planetary Requisitions 103	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:30:00 - [3] - Quote Cal and gal scout reminds me of a Steven Wright joke. I bought a humidifier and a dehumidifier. I put them in a room and figured I'd let them duke it out. DA DADA DAAAAA!
Asha Starwind 859	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:31:00 - [4] - Quote There are these nifty little things called Profile Dampeners. Throw enough of them on your suit and you won't show up on most tacnets. I know mindblowing, your welcome. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 448	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:33:00 - [5] - Quote Nope, it's still plate stacking. Of course, what you re talking about helps, a lot, but it is still just plate stacking+cloaks. QQ? Boo Hoo [Q] <-- Drink Moar Quafe
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3792	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:35:00 - [6] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: There are these nifty little things called Profile Dampeners. Throw enough of them on your suit and you won't show up on most tacnets. I know mindblowing, your welcome. There are these nifty things called Caldari Scouts. They don't give a damn about your complex dampeners unless you happened to be named Gal Scout. Your welcome.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13013	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:36:00 - [7] - Quote I don't actually see this as a problem. To me, scouts are all about the EWAR. I do think it's a problem when you can do that with either 600 armour or 450 shields with the best shield regen in the game. Of all the advantages scouts have presently, if you are looking to need them, EWAR is not the way to go. I do see it as a concern that they can basically be faster assaults with a number of other advantages. Also, the EWAR dynamic needs a little work - when quad amped Calscouts cannot have the scan precision to see single damped cloaked Galscouts, for example, that is also a problem. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Oh, forums
jhon hartigan Maphia Clan Corporation 247	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:39:00 - [8] - Quote I feel like the radar of scouts is strong, the cloak is strong, the scout is strong, the SG is strong, their speed is strong, their radar invisibility is strong... Mix all these things and scouts are totally OP!
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3792	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:45:00 - [9] - Quote Here's my take on the situation.... Scouts are about information warfare. Information is the most powerful tool in any battle. But how do you balance a suit that is capable of retrieving information, exploiting that information, and concealing his own relevant information? That is essentially what the scout is. They might as well be goddamn Jovians. They know everything before everyone else does, can pick any fight they want to, and struggle with no aspect of direct combat thanks to their speed and HP values on top of their ability to get the drop on anybody. So yes, scouts need to be information warriors. It's in the name for crying out loud. But they don't need to have easy access to all forms of information, and have incredible speed, and have incredible concealment, and have good HP. That's too much. Gallente, in all honesty, should have a garbage scan radius and precision. Or it should be crippled the moment they activate a cloak. Caldari should be having the opposite situation. Dunno how you would balance the minmatar and amarr yet. They are sorta ugly ducklings at the moment.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3222	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:45:00 - [10] - Quote I tried making this argument THREE TIMES. This was the community's counter argument: -Active scanners were more OP (No they weren't, they were much easier to be avoided, and they took up an equipment slot too) -Passive scans are not that big (doesn't matter, you only really need to see 30 meters around you anyways) -Active scans were bright and glowy, easier to spot (hardly much of a difference, more of a distraction when players are in a blob, also you don't get a notification when you're passively scanned like you do when active scanned) Passive scans benefit the solo slayer scout, not the team. Honestly I feel that modules need to give us these amazing passive scans, not passive skills. It's like if my logi bonus gave me a permanant repair tool on my suit at all times, so I could use my pg/cpu/equipment slots for other things. _______________________________________________ Maybe the best fix would to be to give scouts a bonus to the MODULES, and NOT just a suit bonus. That way you have to sacrifice module slots to get that bonus instead of just getting a bonus while stacking HP and proto weapons. OMG I think I did it. I fixed scouts didn't I. Links: 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! I make logistics videos!

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3792	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:50:00 - [11] - Quote Active scans were annoying as hell, but a lot more easily countered. And because everyone had access to them it created its own sense of stupid balance. If you wanted to go under them you didn't have to be a scout to do it. The only thing picking you up after a certain number of damps was going to be a focused scan, and those things had massive, massive drawbacks. Folks also became chevron hunters so you could walk right in front of them and they'd be blind. Almost made up for the HP you were missing from all the damps.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2947	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:52:00 - [12] - Quote lol active scanners. When you use them the enemy knows that he has beeing scanned but with passive scans the threat is literally invisible. You dont know if a scout can see you the only notice you get is when you are beeing shot in the back. Head of public relations from The Rainbow Effect.
Asha Starwind 860	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:52:00 - [13] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: There are these nifty little things called Profile Dampeners. Throw enough of them on your suit and you won't show up on most tacnets. I know mindblowing, your welcome. There are these nifty things called Caldari Scouts. They don't give a damn about your complex dampeners unless you happened to be named Gal Scout. Your welcome. <--- Cal Scout V, Gal Scout V No duh. Cal Scout != All scouts. Damps will get you under Cal Scout Scans if they are brick tanking. If they are running enhancers and range amps, they are paper thin, an angry look in their general direction kills them. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3792	Posted - 2014.05.02 13:00:00 - [14] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: There are these nifty little things called Profile Dampeners. Throw enough of them on your suit and you won't show up on most tacnets. I know mindblowing, your welcome. There are these nifty things called Caldari Scouts. They don't give a damn about your complex dampeners unless you happened to be named Gal Scout. Your welcome. <--- Cal Scout V, Gal Scout V No duh. Cal Scout != All scouts. Damps will get you under Cal Scout Scans if they are brick tanking. If they are running enhancers and range amps, they are paper thin, an angry look in their general direction kills them. Lots of Cal scouts run radar fit for PC specifically because every other scout is doing exactly what you describe and can be detected with precision enhancers. Heavies and Logis are effectively blind without scouts right now, but one good radar scout is going to catch any of the medium framers out there with damps as well as any scout who refuses to sacrifice their brick. And yea, they have to stay out of combat or in the back, but if thats what it takes that's what it takes. It enables other people to do their role in competitive play.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER R 0 N 1 N 1391	Posted - 2014.05.02 13:04:00 - [15] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I tried making this argument THREE TIMES. This was the community's counter argument: -Active scanners were more OP (No they weren't, they were much easier to be avoided, and they took up an equipment slot too) -Passive scans are not that big (doesn't matter, you only really need to see 30 meters around you anyways) -Active scans were bright and glowy, easier to spot (hardly much of a difference, more of a distraction when players are in a blob, also you don't get a notification when you're passively scanned like you do when active scanned) Passive scans benefit the solo slayer scout, not the team. Honestly I feel that modules need to give us these amazing passive scans, not passive skills. It's like if my logi bonus gave me a permanant repair tool on my suit at all times, so I could use my pg/cpu/equipment slots for other things. _______________________________________________ Maybe the best fix would to be to give scouts a bonus to the MODULES, and NOT just a suit bonus. That way you have to sacrifice module slots to get that bonus instead of just getting a bonus while stacking HP and proto weapons. OMG I think I did it. I fixed scouts didn't I. Have to point this out though. I ran with Aszazel, two G-1 scouts running literaly right next to each other, and since we were so close, our passive scan was shared. But since he had better mods then me, obviously he saw clearer and farther than I did. But we shared passive scan. Which is partially why scouts running together is so dangerous cause WE SEE YOU. Gallente Scout before 1.8, and after General John Ripper approved Yeah I ISK hoard
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 260	Posted - 2014.05.02 13:07:00 - [16] - Quote Went 33/7 last night with an advanced Gal, 1 complex shield, 1 complex precision, 1 enhanced cardio, 2 complex kin kats, CRG-3 shotty, standard ScP, flux nades and basic cloak. 160 shields, 162 armor = 322 eHP I have stated a couple times, that it's not the cloak. It's that most scouts that are FoTM now are vets with 30 mil SP. I only very recently got most of my core upgrades to 4/5 but finally getting range, precision, and damps to 5 was a HUGE difference. You aren't getting shot by some hack with a shotty, you are getting ganked by someone who has been playing this game for 8+ months who has all weapon proficiencies and core skills. I personally believe a lot needs to change to make the scout class viable again, I mean I know they are more powerful then ever, but everyone uses them as assaults now and I miss being among the 10% of the field, not the 50%. I'd like to see HEAVY speed penalties for stacking armor plate. A removal of the damp bonus to cloak, so it's a piece of visual equipment rather than a piece of equipment needed to maintain EWAR. A return to all suits profile/precision to 40/45. And ALL SCOUT SUITS receive a 5% damp per level (as the minimatar had before). PS. I have also died A LOT in that suit, it all depends on who I am going up against and whether I need to damp or have spawn campers, 322 doesn't give much room to screw up. Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
PARKOUR PRACTIONER R 0 N 1 N 1393	Posted - 2014.05.02 13:10:00 - [17] - Quote Aszazel, I laugh so hard every time I read your signature. Gallente Scout before 1.8, and after General John Ripper approved Yeah I ISK hoard


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