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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM Top Men.
1245
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Posted - 2014.05.01 11:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
So clones are intended to be used and disposed of. Many of our weapons, like the forge gun, give off lethal radiation or some such that makes using them very hazardous, but we don't care because they aren't intended to be used for long.
So why do we have genders?
Wouldn't it be more efficient to have an androgynous clone without any sex charateristics? We can already manipulate clones genetics (scouts have two hearts, heavies have two spines) so why would we waste space and biomass on female breasts, for example? Couldn't that material go to better musculature or somesuch?
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Aisha Ctarl
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
4644
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Posted - 2014.05.01 11:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
We have battle and vanity clones. Also, there was some bit where they tried to put a male mind in a female body and vice versa, and they went mad.
=^,.,^=
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM Top Men.
1245
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Posted - 2014.05.01 11:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Where is this lore at? And technically, this clone would be neither male nor female, as sex organs are not necessary for combat.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
229
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Posted - 2014.05.01 11:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
They want to appeal to a wide variety of players. Don't pull too hard on the threads of the fabric of a games universe. It's make believe not everything has a reason or cause and not everything will make sense.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14461
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Posted - 2014.05.01 11:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lorewise its for physiological reasons. Clone lifespans are 5 years. We're not body centric informorphs rather were datamass centric informorphs which the clones are instances of us. Balac had such incident happen to him but didn't understand the tech as its something that makes use different from the sleepers. We don't seem to have the capacityor awareness we are just ghosts in a box.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
265
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Posted - 2014.05.01 12:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Go ask the Jove. |
MINA Longstrike
650
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Posted - 2014.05.01 12:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:So clones are intended to be used and disposed of. Many of our weapons, like the forge gun, give off lethal radiation or some such that makes using them very hazardous, but we don't care because they aren't intended to be used for long.
So why do we have genders?
Wouldn't it be more efficient to have an androgynous clone without any sex charateristics? We can already manipulate clones genetics (scouts have two hearts, heavies have two spines) so why would we waste space and biomass on female breasts, for example? Couldn't that material go to better musculature or somesuch?
It had very disconcerting psychological effects for the mercs, they decided to just give us our fun bitz andleave it at that.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM Top Men.
1246
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Posted - 2014.05.01 14:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lorewise its for physiological reasons. Clone lifespans are 5 years. We're not body centric informorphs rather were datamass centric informorphs which the clones are instances of us. Balac had such incident happen to him but didn't understand the tech as its something that makes use different from the sleepers. We don't seem to have the capacityor awareness we are just ghosts in a box. Gonna need that in English.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Aleksander Black
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
256
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Scouts have two hearts and heavies two spines? Seriously? |
Aisha Ctarl
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
4647
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aleksander Black wrote:Scouts have two hearts and heavies two spines? Seriously?
I've read it in a description somewhere.
=^,.,^=
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Aleksander Black
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
256
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ew... Kind of gross but ok, I can see it happening. |
Heimdallr69
Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad.
2316
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well when there's not a war going on you need some fun right?
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM Top Men.
1247
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
I suppose for fun we would have our regular bodies in cryostasis or somesuch for when we aren't in battle. But in battle, why would I need sex organs, or hell, digestive systems or anything not specifically related to fighting? That's just something else that can be injured (Imagine someone with myrofibel stims nutchecking you fellas) so why even have it in the first place? Once were out of battle, we would then transfer back into our regular bodies with all of our fun bits, then into a sexless clone for fighting with.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
273
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I suppose for fun we would have our regular bodies in cryostasis or somesuch for when we aren't in battle. But in battle, why would I need sex organs, or hell, digestive systems or anything not specifically related to fighting? That's just something else that can be injured (Imagine someone with myrofibel stims nutchecking you fellas) so why even have it in the first place? Once were out of battle, we would then transfer back into our regular bodies with all of our fun bits, then into a sexless clone for fighting with. I've thought about this too, but for different reasons related to the illusion of continuity. That little kink in our "immortality". Problem is I don't think we have anti-aging technology, so I still wouldn't be immortal. |
Aleksander Black
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
257
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I suppose for fun we would have our regular bodies in cryostasis or somesuch for when we aren't in battle. But in battle, why would I need sex organs, or hell, digestive systems or anything not specifically related to fighting? That's just something else that can be injured (Imagine someone with myrofibel stims nutchecking you fellas) so why even have it in the first place? Once were out of battle, we would then transfer back into our regular bodies with all of our fun bits, then into a sexless clone for fighting with.
Sure, it could be like this. Or it could just as easily be anything else. The reason why clones aren't like that is because CCP didn't want to. Maybe because they believe the game would be more successful if the players were able to identify themselves better with their characters and they thought that would be more likely if they had gender. At any rate, as far as the lore goes you can put pretty much any excuse in place: because our minds reject a incomplete or too different body, for one. Why wouldn't they? Sure, they could just as easily say that our minds can work with any body. Point is, in the end of the day there isn't really a reason to keep brooding over it. It is what it is. |
Aramis Madrigal
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
245
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lorewise its for physiological reasons. Clone lifespans are 5 years. We're not body centric informorphs rather were datamass centric informorphs which the clones are instances of us. Balac had such incident happen to him but didn't understand the tech as its something that makes use different from the sleepers. We don't seem to have the capacityor awareness we are just ghosts in a box.
I'm not really up to speed on the lore, but I assume the disconnect is that humans are intrinsically body-centric. Were we always clones or are our consciousnesses from humans/humanoids? We (humans) often describe emotional and cognitive states in terms of physical analogs and said states often boot-strap/are partially derived from said physical states. i.e. when we find something morally or intellectually repugnant, it's not terribly different from literally being sick to your stomach. Any sentient being with a developed theory of mind, intentionality and agency would likely have a similar evolutionary back story. I'd imagine having your consciousness in a disposable clone would put someone at risk for all sorts of dysmorphic and dissociative disorders. There are so many interesting questions posed by clone soldiers. In a disposable body, I'd wager that suffering as a result of damage (affective evaluation of nocioception) would be counter productive. Standard conceptions of risk and reward kind of go out the window too.
-Aramis |
Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
1003
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Aleksander Black wrote:Scouts have two hearts and heavies two spines? Seriously? I've read it in a description somewhere. So at a supply depot I can have a heart taken out and an extra spine put in within a second? Way to go medical science! |
Ayrie Coronach
DUST University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2014.05.01 15:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
It was mentioned by others, but the different clone genders are there for psychological reasons.
There was a lore bit about female mercs (or test subjects, maybe not actual mercs) suffering mental breaks when thrust into the male-patterned clones. They were just too different to what the female subjects had been living in and driving around their entire lives. Or maybe the problem was they were so similar (being human shaped) but missing obvious parts the user had grown accustomed to over the years. Who knows?
But yeah, psychological reasons. Also expediency and ease-of-use concerns I would think. It's basically why our clones aren't 15' tall armored battle-gorillas with laser beam eyes, or huge slaver hounds with chainsaws for teeth, even though such forms would bring huge advantages to land-based warfare.
The idea is you take a person's mind, throw it in another (disposable) body, and they then go to war with it; probably getting exploded/sliced/ripped out of it pretty quickly considering how brutal New Eden warfare is.
The closer the clone's form is to the form that the merc ACTUALLY has, IE human male or female, the less adjustment period there would be each time they need to hop into a clone. The body, at least as far as it feels and behaves, would be business as usual for the pilot mind, just a little faster, a little stronger.
The mercs don't have to learn how to work tentacles or those chainsaw teeth I was talking about. |
Aramis Madrigal
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
247
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Posted - 2014.05.01 16:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kinesthetic expertise derived from years of shooting people/flying a dropship/whatever would be most easily applied in a body that is as close a match to your own body as possible. Proprioception and reflex are disrupted by things as trivial as minor joint injuries. Motor cortex codes vectors and relies heavily on reflex/motor circuits in the periphery of the central nervous system and the peripheral nervous system. Imagine the disruption in output caused by differences in the peripheral motor circuits of a new clone body. Perfect copies of the body that training/learning occurred within would almost be a necessity.
-Aramis
P.S. You can sever a cats spinal cord (or any other animal) at a level just below the brain stem and still get it to walk on a treadmill as long as it is supported by a harness. Even some corrections of balance and gait are possible without input from the brain. |
Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
277
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Posted - 2014.05.01 16:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aramis Madrigal wrote:Kinesthetic expertise derived from years of shooting people/flying a dropship/whatever would be most easily applied in a body that is as close a match to your own body as possible. Proprioception and reflex are disrupted by things as trivial as minor joint injuries. Motor cortex codes vectors and relies heavily on reflex circuits in the periphery of the central nervous system and the peripheral nervous system. Imagine the disruption in output caused by differences in the peripheral motor circuits of a new clone body. Perfect copies of the body that training/learning occurred within would almost be a necessity.
-Aramis Didn't even think about that one. Nice. |
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Goro Scornshard
DUST University Ivy League
76
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Posted - 2014.05.01 16:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Where is this lore at? And technically, this clone would be neither male nor female, as sex organs are not necessary for combat.
Where the lore is at:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Infantry_Gear:Dropsuits
Finally the full set of racially aligned suits;
but still not one with a tie
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM Top Men.
1251
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Posted - 2014.05.01 21:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ayrie Coronach wrote:It was mentioned by others, but the different clone genders are there for psychological reasons.
There was a lore bit about female mercs (or test subjects, maybe not actual mercs) suffering mental breaks when thrust into the male-patterned clones. They were just too different to what the female subjects had been living in and driving around their entire lives. Or maybe the problem was they were so similar (being human shaped) but missing obvious parts the user had grown accustomed to over the years. Who knows?
But yeah, psychological reasons. Also expediency and ease-of-use concerns I would think. It's basically why our clones aren't 15' tall armored battle-gorillas with laser beam eyes, or huge slaver hounds with chainsaws for teeth, even though such forms would bring huge advantages to land-based warfare.
The idea is you take a person's mind, throw it in another (disposable) body, and they then go to war with it; probably getting exploded/sliced/ripped out of it pretty quickly considering how brutal New Eden warfare is.
The closer the clone's form is to the form that the merc ACTUALLY has, IE human male or female, the less adjustment period there would be each time they need to hop into a clone. The body, at least as far as it feels and behaves, would be business as usual for the pilot mind, just a little faster, a little stronger.
The mercs don't have to learn how to work tentacles or those chainsaw teeth I was talking about. This makes sense. Alright, I get it now. It just seemed like (why is the biomass for boobs not being used to make me stronger?
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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