Item 1:

Given that this is a dynamic game with many roles to fill, many players, especially veterans (+20mil SP), do not stick with one role. As such, I think the labels given to players should not stem from stats or average fittings, but rather what the player is using in the moment of the game and may be changed on impulse.

Item 2:

There should be a continuum ranging from Logi to Assault (or even scout, as I have witnessed) rather than a definite yes or no. As stated above, this is a dynamic game and roles may change in an instant, even using the same suit.

A "Pure" logi should only focus on the defensive and logistical aspects of team support (Uplink and nano hive placement and repair and revival of allies). Such logies flee from direct combat when possible, engaging only when absolutely necessary or in special cases (such as defending a point from being hacked).

-Weapon meta should be sacrificed where needed for better defensive mods and equipment, but this shouldn't exclude the use of high-tier weaponry as the logi must viably defend itself. There should be no use of damage mods or active scanners as they imply an aggressive intent.

"Slayer-Logi" is a variable term that can range anywhere from a logistics suit playing a stomp game and hunting enemies due to the lack of logistical needs to an assault, commando, or scout suit carrying a repair tool and/or high meta nano hive. When considering labeling something as a slayer, one should consider: the defensive/offensive mods and weapons fitted, the types and meta of equipment fitted, intent of the individual in bringing in a suit, and the actions followed through during the match.

Item 3:

Peer-review is the best choice given the tendency of multiple roles and other variables skewing stats.

Comparing stats is a juvenile and superficial way to gauge the competency of a logistics player. If this is for a corporate application or competency evaluation, an examination of the skills leveled, an interview and peer-review, and a live-fire evaluation (squadding up) should be used.

-Weapon meta should be sacrificed where needed for better defensive mods and equipment, but this shouldn't exclude the use of high-tier weaponry as the logi must viably defend itself. There should be no use of damage mods or active scanners as they imply an aggressive intent.

"FU2", said the Gal Logi.

Pre-fanfest doldrums in effect. This is reposted from another thread:

Alright, this is the Dust forums after all, IGÇÖll give you what you want and stir up some trouble here. We need something to entertain us while we wait for the FanFest announcements!

Hear ye, hear ye, the council of logis is now in session!
I will go ahead and nominate myself as president and chair of these proceedings. Any objections?
No? Good.

The first order of business is to set some ground rules. All discussion can be a maximum of 49% trolling or it will be stricken from the record! Second, the opinions of longstanding dedicated logis such as Redbleach, Shayz (tho he runs commando/assault nowGǪ), and CCL shall be considered to be more valid than everyone else!
(I consider the above comment to be only 45% troll so it will stand.)

Now, to the primary items on the agenda:

1)What defines a GÇ£properGÇ¥ (by that I mean non-slayer) logi?
2)Is a slayer logi even a logi?
3)By what objective criteria should a logiGÇÖs ability be judged?

Please note that all statistical criteria proposed are done so with the understanding that they are imperfect, especially when considering lifetime values compared to recent performance. We all get stomped as noobs. However, we are necessarily limited by the tools provided to us by CCP and some criteria must be chosen so that we may judge others on the forums!

For the first matter, I propose the following simple set of criteria:

a)A proper logi has a minimum of two pieces of equipment that is the same or higher tier than his weapon on all his/her primary suit fittings. Highly situational fits like counter-sniping or AV are exempted.

b)A proper logi has a WP/K (not WP/d) ratio of at least 100, but is under suspicion until it reaches 150. (In the interest of full disclosure, mine is slightly over 200)

Item #2 on the agenda: Is a slayer logi even a logi?

The answer is no.

Such players should be considered to be an assault/slayer that has simply chosen to use a logi suit due to its flexibility. The use of a logi suit (see above) is neither proof nor even completely necessary (now that scouts have 2 eq slots) that a particular player is a logi.

Item #3: By what objective criteria should a logiGÇÖs ability be judged?

I propose that WP/D be the criteria used.

Again, we have limited tools and must work with what we have. If more robust data should be made available, this can be revisited. I propose that, as there are fairly well established criteria for relative skill in terms of being a slayer, we should build off of their numbers using a sort of conversion factor.

Example: For a slayer, a KDR less than 2 is considered poor and generally excludes you from acceptance into an upper echelon corporation. A 3.0 KDR is often cited as the cut-off point for a high-level player, and 5 is probably where one becomes elite. We should use the same benchmarks, but with a modifier, as discussed below:

If (as P14GU3 astutely noted) you convert these KDRGÇÖs into WP/D, 2*50 = 100, 3*50 = 150, and 5*50 = 250. Note that this does not account for assists, which are not reported like kills are. This is part of the reason why a modifier is needed.

I submit that a WP/D of 100 is simply too low to be considered as a highly competent logi. Therefore, I suggest that the corresponding KDR be given a modifier of +1.0; +0.5 is also an option but does not give the same nice round numbers.

With this +1 modifier, the equivalent KDR to WP/D conversion would be:
KDR 2.0 = WP/D 150
KDR 3.0 = WP/D 200
KDR 5.0 = WP/D 300
(I am not sure if this last number in particular is appropriate as I do not know what proportion of players are above this cutoff. 250 might be more statistically valid if there is a large grouping between 200-300 and only a few outliers like CCL above it).

note, I am a full time logi mostly.

and I always said this (since closed beta):
-assaults should have huge fitting options in terms of amounts of low & hi slots, they are after all the jack of all trades
-logis should have low amounts of low and hi slots, they already get the flexibility in terms of equipment slots but they should have high defense/health built into the suit.

I even wouldnt mind if logi could carry side arms only if the logi would get the appropriate amounts of base HP in returns. the logi should after all rely on the team as much as the team relies on the logi.

Is not a slayer logi a logi by definition?

No matter how 'slayer' my fitting was, I always ran at least two proto Equipment's (preferably three, and it would have been four had I possessed proto scanners) on top of my Viziam ScR and 600+ armour (w/ 11.25s rep)

Yeah, GalLogi was super-broke. All my high slots were damage mods, for the record.

Love seeing people using WP/K and WP/D ratio.

As to your criteria, I have to agree with Vulpes on this. I have almost 45 million SP, I reach the top of both of your WP criteria (My WP/D is roughly 400, I'm at work so I can't give an exact). Once you hit 20 to 25 Million, it's quite difficult to stick with one role (more power to those 4x Logis, Assaults, Sentinels, Scouts).

I've branched from pure Logi during Chrome (and earlier) to an Assault and Logi Uprising 1.0 to 1.7, to a Logi, Scout, Commando, Sentinel Assault in 1.8. When I was a pure Logi, my WP/D hovered around 250-275, so my additional roles have bumped that considerably (really, I just choose to not die much, I don't run, I don't snipe, I just sneak around the map, not stroking anything, just stating).

Why do we need this?

Still waiting for Friday.!

Any thoughts on the WP/D conversion to KDR?

i motion for all logi's to kill themselves and then to stop buying logi suits because scouts are now better

I would probably go 1.25 conversion rather than 1.5 but yours seems equally legit considering the removal of the rep gun WP cap.

I think the definition of logi should be split between support and hybrid.

Support should always have the ability to keep your team moving while the hybrid should focus on keeping the enemy from killing your team.

However, now that the matter with the water has been resolved we need to focus on what biscuits we want at this meeting.