Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2955
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Posted - 2014.04.24 07:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dericha wrote:The mass of scout kills from behind has never been this bad. ever. my DREN with zero points in shotgun or scout wrecks heavies. That's just stupid. Also, 3 shotting a lvl5 sentinel before they can turn around is BS. Scouts are the new slayer logics, except they're invisible with the Golden Gun. TAC rifles were not this annoying. I had a nova knifer run through my HMG fire (adv, with lvl4 prof) and nova knife me for over 1500 damage in a sentinel suit.
Sounds like you think scouts shouldn't be able to kill heavies?
Turn speed on all suits was stupidly equalised a long time ago, so your heavy HMG can spin around as fast as a scout can.
With the nerf to shotgun proficiency from ROF to shield damage, shotguns took a massive hit in 1.8; they're worse, not better. The only reason you're seeing a lot more shotgun kills now is that there are a lot more scouts now.
Any weapon that requires you to be within 5m to do reasonable damage, should be 3 shotting fully tanked heavies. That's what you get for the danger of getting in the close. As for nova knives, their range of <3m and the fact you have to charge them for full damage means it should be an insta-kill every time.
Now, we all know there's a problem with insta-shooting from cloaked and CCP Rattati even confirmed it's 'of course' a bug yesterday. That is the real problem here. Stop crying about the bloody shotgun - it's no better than it ever was; if anything, it's worse.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2974
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Posted - 2014.04.24 21:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Jack McReady wrote:
it takes ~1 second to kill a heavy with a shotgun. you have 8xx DPS in your hands with the advantage of the first hit with huge alpha against a target with huge hitbox.
You must have a totally different SG the highest base damage of any SG (the allotek breach) is something like 630 HP damage on a breach variant with only two shots  creodron shotgun Damage per pellet 44 [50.6 with proficiencies] pellets per Round 12 Rate of Fire 85.71 RPM DPS without reload 754.25 [867.39 with proficiencies] allotek breach Damage per pellet 52.8 [60.72 with proficiencies] pellets per Round 12 Rate of Fire 60 RPM DPS without reload 633.6 [728.64 with proficiencies] conclusion: dont use a breach against fully specialized sentinels unless you are sure that you can headshot them with both shots fully.
When ROF is so slow DPS is a terribly misleading statistic to use. With high ROF weapons DPS is significant because you can actually deal very close to that amount of damage per second. With the shotgun you're halfway through your shot when that second is up, which means there is zero extra damage during that time.
Instead you should look at how long it actually takes to apply each set of 528 damage from your creodron, which is 0.7 seconds. Let's assume going up against a dual tanked amarr sentinel with just 2 enhanced armor plates and 1 complex shield extender. Amarr get no resistance to gallente weapons, so that's 523 shield and 922 armor. However, shotguns count as hybrid plasma damage profile, so that's effectively 10% less shield and 10% more armor for that sentinel: 471 shield and 1014 armor; that's 1485 ehp on not even a fully tanked out suit with no effective resistance bonuses.
Assuming you get the drop on it and hit within the 5m optimal range with all 12 pellets landing and no hit detection issues, you start at 0 seconds taking out all his shields and do 47 damage do his armor. It takes another 0.7 seconds to take the second shot, during which time the target must still be within range and must not have instantly spun around with his HMG because his turn speed is just as fast as any other suit. After 0.7 seconds, you'll have him down to half armor but still need another 0.7 seconds to get a third full shot off to take him completely out. That's 1.4 seconds of perfect firing to kill a mediocre heavy with no reactions.
Keep in mind that adding just one more HP mod of any kind or using complex plates instead of enhanced would mean that you'd have to get a 4th shot off, taking you to 2.1 seconds of perfect firing against an opponent that doesn't have the reactions to spin and HMG your ass down.
One and a half seconds is a long time in an FPS. 2 seconds is so much longer. Shotguns still have hit detection issues. They suck against armor, which is what most heavies tank lots of and 2 racial sentinels get resistance bonuses against them.
Honestly, I forget why I started this lecture on the actual mathematics of shotguns but I'll just close by reiterating the point I've made so many times in threads like these - the only change to shotguns in 1.8 was to make the proficiency +dmg to shields from the ROF increase it used to be - most users consider that an awful nerf. If you didn't have a problem with shotguns prior to 1.8, then any problems you're having now are equally not with the shotguns.
Try aiming your tears elsewhere like the bugged cloak-insta-shoot or the fact that mediums still haven't had a full balance pass.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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