DUST Search - T3 Weapons? How Should they be done?

Awry Barux wrote:

The Robot Devil wrote:

Add a rig cost and rigs that alter Rof, range, damage, magazine size, change the sights, change over heat, change spool or charge time and reload speed. Each rig has a certain cost and the rigs skill adds x points to the rig amount of the weapon. One rig per weapon and the higher tiers get fewer rig points so that a merc needs higher skills to rig a higher tier weapon.

Each rig comes in a set of five and needs five weapons of the same type to be rigged. Once rigged the weapons are rigged forever and can't be unrigged or changed. Rigs will make some weapons OP very quickly so rigs are going to be very difficult thing to pull off.

The rigged weapons will have to draw more resources so that they are not so OP that they break the other weapons. A rigged weapon needs to be borderline OP but use up so much resources that it is difficult to fit and the suit can't run rigged proto with a full compliment of proto mods.

A rigged proto AR may put out 6% more damage but use 10% more resources so that fitting is tight and costs the suit something. Whereas a rigged proto SCR may have a 5% decrease charge time but heat up 10% faster.

^this, although I would support multiple rig slots and rigs taking up varying rig capacities, like EVE. Reload time reduction? Low cost. Damage/ROF boost? High cost.

Also, OP: I thought envisage wasn't a word, but it turns out it is. Why do we have two words that mean precisely the same thing? Envision, envisage, bah.

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."

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Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2556	Posted - 2014.04.17 22:51:00 - [1] - Quote How do envisage them? Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12374	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:14:00 - [2] - Quote Why should they be done? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Rusty Shallows 1536	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:26:00 - [3] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: How do envisage them? Take all the current proto weapons, increase the prices astronomically and make them all OHK. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2559	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:27:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should they be done? Why shouldn't they? With T3 weapons the number of possibly different weapons could be in the thousands if not more. People get more of an attachment to their weapon when they feel that they created it. Even if T3 weapons are T2 weapons with an attachment system shoe-horned on it would be a big step for some people. (THIS DOES NOT MEAN I THINK T3 WEAPONS SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED LIKE THAT) Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2445	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:40:00 - [5] - Quote Add a rig cost and rigs that alter Rof, range, damage, magazine size, change the sights, change over heat, change spool or charge time and reload speed. Each rig has a certain cost and the rigs skill adds x points to the rig amount of the weapon. One rig per weapon and the higher tiers get fewer rig points so that a merc needs higher skills to rig a higher tier weapon. Each rig comes in a set of five and needs five weapons of the same type to be rigged. Once rigged the weapons are rigged forever and can't be unrigged or changed. Rigs will make some weapons OP very quickly so rigs are going to be very difficult thing to pull off. The rigged weapons will have to draw more resources so that they are not so OP that they break the other weapons. A rigged weapon needs to be borderline OP but use up so much resources that it is difficult to fit and the suit can't run rigged proto with a full compliment of proto mods. A rigged proto AR may put out 6% more damage but use 10% more resources so that fitting is tight and costs the suit something. Whereas a rigged proto SCR may have a 5% decrease charge time but heat up 10% faster. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2559	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:45:00 - [6] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Add a rig cost and rigs that alter Rof, range, damage, magazine size, change the sights, change over heat, change spool or charge time and reload speed. Each rig has a certain cost and the rigs skill adds x points to the rig amount of the weapon. One rig per weapon and the higher tiers get fewer rig points so that a merc needs higher skills to rig a higher tier weapon. Each rig comes in a set of five and needs five weapons of the same type to be rigged. Once rigged the weapons are rigged forever and can't be unrigged or changed. Rigs will make some weapons OP very quickly so rigs are going to be very difficult thing to pull off. The rigged weapons will have to draw more resources so that they are not so OP that they break the other weapons. A rigged weapon needs to be borderline OP but use up so much resources that it is difficult to fit and the suit can't run rigged proto with a full compliment of proto mods. A rigged proto AR may put out 6% more damage but use 10% more resources so that fitting is tight and costs the suit something. Whereas a rigged proto SCR may have a 5% decrease charge time but heat up 10% faster. So a weapon is built from 5 seperate rig parts, or you can only build T3 weapons in multiples of 5? Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Rusty Shallows 1538	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:46:00 - [7] - Quote Holy crap RD that was a serious answer. I've done Incursions and W-Space in Eve Online. The drones would be bloody murder. The Dust community is not ready for that level of organized play. We mostly focus on Slayers over teamwork. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2446	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:50:00 - [8] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Add a rig cost and rigs that alter Rof, range, damage, magazine size, change the sights, change over heat, change spool or charge time and reload speed. Each rig has a certain cost and the rigs skill adds x points to the rig amount of the weapon. One rig per weapon and the higher tiers get fewer rig points so that a merc needs higher skills to rig a higher tier weapon. Each rig comes in a set of five and needs five weapons of the same type to be rigged. Once rigged the weapons are rigged forever and can't be unrigged or changed. Rigs will make some weapons OP very quickly so rigs are going to be very difficult thing to pull off. The rigged weapons will have to draw more resources so that they are not so OP that they break the other weapons. A rigged weapon needs to be borderline OP but use up so much resources that it is difficult to fit and the suit can't run rigged proto with a full compliment of proto mods. A rigged proto AR may put out 6% more damage but use 10% more resources so that fitting is tight and costs the suit something. Whereas a rigged proto SCR may have a 5% decrease charge time but heat up 10% faster. So a weapon is built from 5 seperate rig parts, or you can only build T3 weapons in multiples of 5? No, only one rig per weapon in multiples of five. Total customization of every part would be too much, at least to start out with. One set of five identical rigs and five identical weapons would be consumed to create five weapons with the same rig stats. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1972	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:51:00 - [9] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Add a rig cost and rigs that alter Rof, range, damage, magazine size, change the sights, change over heat, change spool or charge time and reload speed. Each rig has a certain cost and the rigs skill adds x points to the rig amount of the weapon. One rig per weapon and the higher tiers get fewer rig points so that a merc needs higher skills to rig a higher tier weapon. Each rig comes in a set of five and needs five weapons of the same type to be rigged. Once rigged the weapons are rigged forever and can't be unrigged or changed. Rigs will make some weapons OP very quickly so rigs are going to be very difficult thing to pull off. The rigged weapons will have to draw more resources so that they are not so OP that they break the other weapons. A rigged weapon needs to be borderline OP but use up so much resources that it is difficult to fit and the suit can't run rigged proto with a full compliment of proto mods. A rigged proto AR may put out 6% more damage but use 10% more resources so that fitting is tight and costs the suit something. Whereas a rigged proto SCR may have a 5% decrease charge time but heat up 10% faster. ^this, although I would support multiple rig slots and rigs taking up varying rig capacities, like EVE. Reload time reduction? Low cost. Damage/ROF boost? High cost. Edit: oh, I see that you already mentioned capacities. In that case, why only one rig slot? Also, OP: I thought envisage wasn't a word, but it turns out it is. Why do we have two words that mean precisely the same thing? Envision, envisage, bah. Nerdier than thou
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2446	Posted - 2014.04.17 23:54:00 - [10] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Holy crap RD that was a serious answer. I've done Incursions and W-Space in Eve Online. The drones would be bloody murder. The Dust community is not ready for that level of organized play. We mostly focus on Slayers over teamwork. Thanks and you are correct we aren't ready for that level of organization. Half the time squads don't work together, use coms or orders. This community is not ready for team play like rigs would bring, we can't even handle one good squad there is no way we could accept a fully proto team with rigged weapons that was working as a team and focused on winning. The proto stomping we have now would look like a joke. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke

The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2446	Posted - 2014.04.18 00:00:00 - [11] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Add a rig cost and rigs that alter Rof, range, damage, magazine size, change the sights, change over heat, change spool or charge time and reload speed. Each rig has a certain cost and the rigs skill adds x points to the rig amount of the weapon. One rig per weapon and the higher tiers get fewer rig points so that a merc needs higher skills to rig a higher tier weapon. Each rig comes in a set of five and needs five weapons of the same type to be rigged. Once rigged the weapons are rigged forever and can't be unrigged or changed. Rigs will make some weapons OP very quickly so rigs are going to be very difficult thing to pull off. The rigged weapons will have to draw more resources so that they are not so OP that they break the other weapons. A rigged weapon needs to be borderline OP but use up so much resources that it is difficult to fit and the suit can't run rigged proto with a full compliment of proto mods. A rigged proto AR may put out 6% more damage but use 10% more resources so that fitting is tight and costs the suit something. Whereas a rigged proto SCR may have a 5% decrease charge time but heat up 10% faster. ^this, although I would support multiple rig slots and rigs taking up varying rig capacities, like EVE. Reload time reduction? Low cost. Damage/ROF boost? High cost. Also, OP: I thought envisage wasn't a word, but it turns out it is. Why do we have two words that mean precisely the same thing? Envision, envisage, bah. I have thought about that but that would screw up the fittings menu so much I think it would cause more problems than anything. Part of New Eden's problem of sever load has to do with loading players stats and by adding another layer of complexity it think it would complicate things too much and cause hard core slow downs, yes I know we have lag now but not like we would if every single weapons and fittings list has that many customizable parts in which the server had to do even more math. http://themittani.com/features/behind-scenes-6vdt-ccp-veritas?page=0%2C2 TMC: I understand that. There are limits to silicon and reaching the speeds of what is technically possible, at least with the current technology. I've heard about GÇ£brain in a box.GÇ¥ CCP Vertias: That's one of the projects I talked about at Fanfest, yes. TMC: Care to explain what that it is? I've heard it tossed around a bit, but not too many people know the details of it. CCP Veritas: Sure. That's the project that when I'm not working on Tournament stuff, I'm working on. I took a bit of a detour, but I can get into that later. GÇ£Brain in a boxGÇ¥ is, generally speaking, fixing the way that the EVE server handles skills. So right now, every skill in your brain is, like, when you inject a skill book, that just moves the skill into your brain. It's still an inventory item. It's just located in your character. That carries with it some attributes and some modifiers. So the skill level of it is an attribute, and that drives a modifier. So, for example, the Engineering skill. That's powergrid, right? TMC: Correct. CCP Veritas: So that carries with it. Take that skill level, multiply it by five, and have that as a bonus to whatever your active ship is to its powergrid. So there you've got a couple attributes and a few different effects. Every time you switch ships, it needs to pull those effects down, and bring them up on the new ship in order for that bonus to work properly. That happens for every single book in your brain: Arkonor Processing, Caldari TitanGÇöall of these skills. No matter what you're getting into, whether or not it has [an] attribute or not, we have to tear them all down and bring them all back up. This can get to be hundreds of effects and is extremely wasteful because the skills didn't change: what they applied to changed. So what GÇ£Brain in a BoxGÇ¥ is reworking [is] fundamentally how the server processes skills such that another node entirely that isn't involved with the simulation of the solar system puts together the list of effects that your brain has, and just delivers that to the server that runs the solar system saying, GÇ£Hey, here's this guy's brain stuff. Make it work.GÇ¥ So now we have one instead of hundreds. TMC: So one straight modifier instead of having to calculate it all out? CCP Veritas: Yeah. GÇ£This guy's brain makes his powergrid go up by 20%. Deal with it.GÇ¥ TMC: Sounds like a good way to help out with [the load]. CCP Veritas: Dealing with those skill stuff is the predominate load in Jita, constantly. Not only is it when you switch ships, but when you jump, dock, undock, when your ship is killed, or when you're pod killed. So that becomes the predominate load in Jita. People in recent fleet fights know that when a bomb run is successful, that causes a tremendously large load spike and that's people switching from the ship they want to be in to a pod; that's another form of ship switching, and the server has to take quite a long time to adjust all their skills, and then they're podded right away anyways, so who cares? TMC: Most of the time, sometimes [they're left there]. CCP Veritas: Sometimes they get away, and that's why we have to set everything up, right? Just in case. So this project has the potential to have a fairly wide ranging optimization effect on not only large fleet fights, but Jita, fleet undocks and fleet movements. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1301	Posted - 2014.04.18 00:05:00 - [12] - Quote My thought was to link them to PVE and manufacturing. By doing PvE misisons, you acquire components, you can break these down as a secondary currency, or use them directly(basically, this opens up trade markets, oh hey, I have trigger assembly parts, but i need Scope mountings for my next modification, I can break these down to raw materials to eventually make scope mountings, or simply trade them with another player who has a scope mounting you can use.) In manufacturing, you buy basic T3 gun variants(which are unlocked by completing various missions in PvE to "Prove your mettle" and somesuch to manufacturers.) and you combine what you've made with the gun you bought(Say, putting a new scope or modifying the fire mode of a gun), then create a blueprint from that gun. After this, you can buy ready-made versions of the gun for your suits, but there is a catch. You can only save so many as your manufacturing skills allow, any more and you have to get rid of your old BP and save the new one over it. each gun you overwrite has to be remade from scratch, and the "Base" models that you modify are exorbitantly expensive.(lets face it, most of us will make a couple standard use guns, and the "I like to cheat and abuse broken mechanics to print free isk" crowd could really use an isk sink, them constantly trying out every combination to try and find glitches to exploit would help the situation at least a little.) If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2021	Posted - 2014.04.18 00:35:00 - [13] - Quote humm...... Tiercide, make 1 of each weapon, and make them kinda like Ghost Recon Future Soldier's customization (maybe ties in the rigging system from EVE as well). click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 2864	Posted - 2014.04.18 00:36:00 - [14] - Quote They should be gold and shoot lasers that go pew pew Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Sinboto Simmons Sver true blood General Tso's Alliance 5909	Posted - 2014.04.18 01:00:00 - [15] - Quote We already have them, officer weaponry. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)


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