DUST Search - Melee Tanking: Day 1

Awry Barux wrote:

Ivan Avogadro wrote:

Awry Barux wrote:

I'm contemplating joining the melee revolution, simply because it's a great way to humiliate the enemy and dicking around with underpowered builds is the great joy of Dust. I have a few questions:

1. Have you tried doing it with your Cal scout? IIRC you can still break 400 melee damage, and I can only assume that the cloak, low signature, and ewar would be very helpful, though I don't know if that makes up for running around with <300 EHP.

You CAN get 400 per swing on a scout, but you need to stack Myo Stims in 3 high slots. Compared to a Shotgun or Nova Knives, both of which will do almost in excess of 600dmg and only cost you one weapon slot (which you are required to fill for a viable suit anyway). So just equip an alpha weapon, keep your high slots for shields or EWAR, and still do more damage.

Well, no **** sherlock, no one here is arguing that melee is BETTER than a shotgun or NKs. That's precisely why it's an intriguing playstyle. Shotgunning was fun for about a week, now it's boring- I pull it out when I want to annoy the hell out of stompers, but rarely otherwise. Nothing is as satisfying as seeing (Melee) on the kill feed.

Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so.

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TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2047	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:07:00 - [1] - Quote before i start this, i'm gonna give a brief introduction of myself, and my DUSt 514 story. WARNING: this is going to be a relatively long post. i'll put a header to show where the main post starts, in case you're too lazy to read about this next part. i'm TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR. i started this character some time in February 2013, though i have an alt that was started in January 2013. i started my scout career a few months after i started playing. i started out doing REALLY BADLY, like 2 kills 10 deaths badly. but i stuck with it. why? because it was a challenge. i've always believed that reaching goals doesn't matter if you cheat or do it the easy way, because who cares? anyone can do it the easy way, and you can hardly call it an accomplishment. so my goal for DUSt 514 was to one day become one of the best scouts in the game. i kept with it. for an entire year, i constantly trained as a scout, and overtime, became exponentially better. patch after patch i watched myself get better and better. unexpectedly, over time, i became known in the scout community. i started getting compliments, and people started acknowledging my skill. that feeling alone was great, because it made me feel like someday, i'd actually be able to reach my goal. people asked for advice, and even WANTED to squad with me. by Uprising 1.7, i was better than i'd ever imagined i'd be. hell, i'd finally gotten a 2 KDR! i'd like to imagine that i'd at least somewhat reached my goal to become one of the best scouts in DUST 514. however, that's not place to decide, so i guess i'll never know. anyway, then comes 1.8. scouts finally get the buffs they've been asking for. cloaks are also introduced. in the beginning of Uprising 1.8, i was just loving my new scout ck.0. my weekly KDR shot through the roof. normally, it was a 4-5, then after 1.8, it averaged a 6-8 KDR. i considered 30+ kills a game normal, but something had changed. it didn't feel as special as it used to. after some time, i had an epiphany. THE CHALLENGE, the entire reason i went scout in the first place was gone. scout was easy mode, to the point that it was fotm. all that practicing, all that time i spent getting better didn't mean sht because of how ridiculously easy it was to be a scout. right when i was on the brink of quitting, i had an idea. what if i could do like what i did with the scout? what if i could take one of those most underpowered, yet most entertaining roles, and master it? enter melee tanking. IF YOU'RE TOO LAZY TO READ THE ABOVE, THE REAL THREAD STARTS HERE* i should start out by saying that 1.8 is not the first time i've tried melee tanking. i also did it in 1.7 to test the effectiveness of it as a competitive tactic. the suit i chose to be my melee suit is the minmatar medium frame, because of it's ridiculous stamina regen, speed, and abundance of high slots. since i didn't have any other suit other than the caldari scout, i had to skill into it, so i started out using the ADV minmatar medium frame that i got using the sidearm event sp, then after 10 hours of grinding sp, finally got the minmatar medium frame mk.0. i started out trying to rely solely on melee to kill my target. most of my games, i rarely got above a 2 KDR, with my worst match being 16 kills 16 deaths. after hours of practicing though, i started adjusting to the melee, and instead of trying to melee EVERYTHING, i only melee'd when i knew i could. basically, i was using the same tactics with melee as you would with nova knives. you can't use it on EVERYTHING, but instead use it to kill unsuspecting enemies or as a finisher. my best match so far using melee has been 25/3. let's get down to the bare facts. with 3 complex myofybril stimulants on a medium frame, you get 454 melee. pretty decent, but not enough to rely on solely, especially when fighting heavies.with 4 myofybril stimulants on a medium frame, you get 550 melee. very good, one shot's most scouts and medium frame, and kills almost any heavy in 3 or less hits. with 5 complex myofybril stimulants on a medium frame, you get 595 melee, which isn't much better than 550, so i just replaced the 5th myofybril with a shield extender. i went through all sorts of weapons, trying to decide which weapons i wanted. my favorite melee animation was the shotgun, as it doesn't obscure your view, and feels like it hits right in front of you, though in the end, i decided to go with ACR/SMG combo, because it gives me much more versatility if i have to fight outside of melee CQC. the ACR melee animation is just terrible, as it blocks your view very badly, and seems to hit a little bit off from the middle. the SMG animation is pretty good, so when i go to melee, i usually switch to my SMG. from my first day with melee tanking, i've noticed that if you're trying to melee someone head on, then it's VERY important to be creative with how you do it. don't just run straight at them. jump around, shoot, disorient them. you'll get the best results by being unpredictable. after a while, i decided to replace another melee mod with a shield, so i had 454 melee and 333 shield, instead of 550 melee and 260 shield. this fit seemed to work best, because i had melee that rivaled a shotgun, AND enough to shield to be competetive without melee if need be. overrall, day 1 of my road to mastering melee tanking went well. my KDR wasn't very great, but that's to be expected, being a medium frame with less hp than many scouts, and trying to melee people. however there were problems. i'll only state 2 here for now. 1.) Hit Detection. the hit detection on melee is by far the worst in the game. you cannot rely on melee to hit at all, and has about a 60% hit rate. 2.) Brick tanked scouts. i'm sorry, but it's a shame when you have 550 melee and have to hit A SCOUT twice to kill him. Anime > EVERYTHING
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2048	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:08:00 - [2] - Quote i'll contine to post my experiences, some advice, and the results in this thread. Anime > EVERYTHING
Vulpes Dolosus Sver true blood General Tso's Alliance 1399	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:14:00 - [3] - Quote If you can, make a video. I'd love to watch. Me in my ADS: 1,2
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 192	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:16:00 - [4] - Quote Are you alright? I started getting into this massive post and was following along and it just BLAM stopped like mid thought. Don't start numbering things if you are only going to put 2 things up
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2049	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:18:00 - [5] - Quote Aszazel wrote: Are you alright? I started getting into this massive post and was following along and it just BLAM stopped like mid thought. Don't start numbering things if you are only going to put 2 things up it's called melee tanking DAY 1. i can't post more than has already happened. Anime > EVERYTHING
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1036	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:27:00 - [6] - Quote I too, know the pain of crummy melee in this game. I've been trying to promote melee buffs on the Feedback page with mixed response. Nobody cares, because nobody is affected by melee (nobody wants it, so they dont care that it sucks.) Except why is it in the game at all? Why is there a high slot biotics mod for it? CCP seemed to think melee was a valuable addition once upon a time, but it's been left to rot. The Myofibril Stimulant poisons the Biotics tree and High slot diversity alike. It's a pointless, expensive module that offers nothing of value to the user. It affects dropsuit diversity because nobody would ever pick a Stim over a Shield. Biotic stacking should be a viable build. And hacking should also be a viable, diverse pursuit. Hopefully this is on CCPs radar, just like how EWAR finally got the love it needed, and EWAR stacking is a viable skill set. Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick: I forgive you.
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 345	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:30:00 - [7] - Quote I've been trying this a little on my min scout alt comboed with the knives and cloak can have fun results though he only has around 3.5 mil sp. So I'm still using mostly basic gear. It basically goes like this. 1. Find inattentive an unwary prey. 2. Decloak about 20-25 m behind them outside their field of view to reduce the chance of them hearing the buzzy whooshing noise 3. Get one full charge of knives as you close the distance and insert in the kidney region. 4. Immediately follow with the boosted melee and pray it connects. 5. If the enemy is dead get the hell out of dodge, if the enemy is not dead get the hell out of dodge. I'm only occasionally going negative with this tactic though I'm not getting all that many kills either but man is it fun.
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2051	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:36:00 - [8] - Quote arimal lavaren wrote: I've been trying this a little on my min scout alt comboed with the knives and cloak can have fun results though he only has around 3.5 mil sp. So I'm still using mostly basic gear. It basically goes like this. 1. Find inattentive an unwary prey. 2. Decloak about 20-25 m behind them outside their field of view to reduce the chance of them hearing the buzzy whooshing noise 3. Get one full charge of knives as you close the distance and insert in the kidney region. 4. Immediately follow with the boosted melee and pray it connects. 5. If the enemy is dead get the hell out of dodge, if the enemy is not dead get the hell out of dodge. I'm only occasionally going negative with this tactic though I'm not getting all that many kills either but man is it fun. seems fun, but if i'm gonna use nova knives, then there's no reason for melee, as my nova knives do more than enough to kill on their own. i don't see a point in melee tanking AND using nova knives. just seems like your gimping yourself more than needed. with NKs, you get almost guaranteed OHKs, unless it's a heavy at the cost of a ranged sidearm, and with melee, you can 1 or 2 hit 90% of targets and still have two ranged weapons at the cost of HP. i'll definitely give it a go though. Anime > EVERYTHING
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 345	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:45:00 - [9] - Quote I'm only doing both because my basic suit with basic knives can not actually one hit most things. It is certainly not optimal but I figured that adding a measly 50 odd shield is not all that worth it. So I'm trying build tactics and fits around the limited scope of engagements this poor alt of mine can handle. without resorting to the shotgun because I'll be bored after the 15'th kill or so.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1939	Posted - 2014.04.17 15:50:00 - [10] - Quote I'm contemplating joining the melee revolution, simply because it's a great way to humiliate the enemy and dicking around with underpowered builds is the great joy of Dust. I have a few questions: 1. Have you tried doing it with your Cal scout? IIRC you can still break 400 melee damage, and I can only assume that the cloak, low signature, and ewar would be very helpful, though I don't know if that makes up for running around with <300 EHP. 2. Have you tried using the RE melee animation, especially after dropping all the REs? It's the most pugilist-feeling setup, IMO. In any case- good on you for finding a new niche, keep it up and keep us updated. Nerdier than thou

mollerz 3273	Posted - 2014.04.17 16:34:00 - [11] - Quote Are you really a scout? Hard to believe a fellow scout is this boring ZZZzzzzz You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1191	Posted - 2014.04.17 16:45:00 - [12] - Quote I need to skill melee now... Get on his level bro! Edit: i've been runnin Min heavy M/1 with a 9k forge, using it as anti infantry. Question: wouldn't the min scout be most useful, as, for a minor loss in melee(110 instead o 120) you get an extra low, base speed, and 2 equips? General John Ripper is my 2nd best friend!
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 781	Posted - 2014.04.17 16:52:00 - [13] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: 2. Have you tried using the RE melee animation, especially after dropping all the REs? It's the most pugilist-feeling setup, IMO. The melee for the Forge Gun is a nice left hook, but I guess trying to run a melee-built heavy would be quite difficult. Amarr Master - All Amarr Dropsuits at lvl 5. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14. A manu dei et tet rimon.
Supernus Gigas sNk Syndicate 768	Posted - 2014.04.17 17:12:00 - [14] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Awry Barux wrote: 2. Have you tried using the RE melee animation, especially after dropping all the REs? It's the most pugilist-feeling setup, IMO. The melee for the Forge Gun is a nice left hook, but I guess trying to run a melee-built heavy would be quite difficult. Not really. I run a Melee Sentinel all the time and do alright with it. Minmatar Sentinel mk.0 Three Complex Myostims Two Complex KinCats 'Steelmine' Boundless HMG STD Flux GN-13 Flaylock 619 Melee Damage 7.44 m/s Sprint Speed It costs around ~85,000 Isk though, and once I run out of those 'Steelmine' HMGs It'll be significantly more unless I decide to use a cheaper HMG. So I usually run a cheaper alternative so I don't constantly hemorrhage Isk, and save the mk.0's for special occasions. Minmatar Sentinel M/1 Two Complex MyoStims Two Complex KinCats MH-82 HMG STD Flux STD SMG 433 Melee Damage 7.44 m/s Sprint Speed ~32,000 Isk It's less Melee effective, but it still works well if you soften up enemies with the HMG first. *FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!*
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5123	Posted - 2014.04.17 17:16:00 - [15] - Quote I love m+¬l+¬e, especially when I run with kinetic catalyzers. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1037	Posted - 2014.04.17 17:19:00 - [16] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: I'm contemplating joining the melee revolution, simply because it's a great way to humiliate the enemy and dicking around with underpowered builds is the great joy of Dust. I have a few questions: 1. Have you tried doing it with your Cal scout? IIRC you can still break 400 melee damage, and I can only assume that the cloak, low signature, and ewar would be very helpful, though I don't know if that makes up for running around with <300 EHP. You CAN get 400 per swing on a scout, but you need to stack Myo Stims in 3 high slots. Compared to a Shotgun or Nova Knives, both of which will do almost in excess of 600dmg and only cost you one weapon slot (which you are required to fill for a viable suit anyway). So just equip an alpha weapon, keep your high slots for shields or EWAR, and still do more damage. EDIT: the REAL damage a melee suit can do is with a Heavy Suit. A Cal Commando with 2 Myo Stims can punch for 900 damage. The only problem with that is Assaults can backpeddal about as fast as you can sprint after them and your signature is so bright you'll never sneak up on anyone anyway. Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick: I forgive you.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1939	Posted - 2014.04.17 17:23:00 - [17] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: Awry Barux wrote: I'm contemplating joining the melee revolution, simply because it's a great way to humiliate the enemy and dicking around with underpowered builds is the great joy of Dust. I have a few questions: 1. Have you tried doing it with your Cal scout? IIRC you can still break 400 melee damage, and I can only assume that the cloak, low signature, and ewar would be very helpful, though I don't know if that makes up for running around with <300 EHP. You CAN get 400 per swing on a scout, but you need to stack Myo Stims in 3 high slots. Compared to a Shotgun or Nova Knives, both of which will do almost in excess of 600dmg and only cost you one weapon slot (which you are required to fill for a viable suit anyway). So just equip an alpha weapon, keep your high slots for shields or EWAR, and still do more damage. Well, no **** sherlock, no one here is arguing the melee is BETTER than a shotgun or NKs. That's precisely why it's an intriguing playstyle. Shotgunning was fun for about a week, now it's boring- I pull it out when I want to annoy the hell out of stompers, but rarely otherwise. Nothing is as satisfying as seeing (Melee) on the kill feed. Nerdier than thou
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 120	Posted - 2014.04.17 17:28:00 - [18] - Quote I'm no where near a melee "specialist", but I thought I might as well add that my favorite L/S melee animation is the Swarm Launcher as you take a swipe at the enemy rather than throwing an elbow. You might like it for the event as well, as it could give you some easy +75 WPs against vehicles. "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 193	Posted - 2014.04.17 17:44:00 - [19] - Quote I tried making a melee tanking character today... Was going to name her sharkeisha but some how that names already taken >.> If someone already has that name how come i don't see them playing this game more often?!!!!?? that names gold for a melee tanking character... I might just name it bruce lee if i get bored :/ Oh if only i could kick instead of punch
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 56	Posted - 2014.04.17 18:48:00 - [20] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Awry Barux wrote: 2. Have you tried using the RE melee animation, especially after dropping all the REs? It's the most pugilist-feeling setup, IMO. The melee for the Forge Gun is a nice left hook, but I guess trying to run a melee-built heavy would be quite difficult. The Minmatar Heavy would be best and cheapest way to do it. You have to sacrifice your tank with at least two myofibril stimulants and one kin cat. With near instant stamina regen, it makes it quite effective and ridiculously fun. I rarely run anything in lows other than kin cats, so I'm very use to the play style. It's fun bashing heavies in the face out of pure denial, thinking that they'll kill you with their Hmg.

IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 356	Posted - 2014.04.17 18:57:00 - [21] - Quote Good stuff, I like it. Let us know if you can melee vehicles...I know you used to be able to knife them. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1043	Posted - 2014.04.18 10:55:00 - [22] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Ivan Avogadro wrote: Awry Barux wrote: I'm contemplating joining the melee revolution, simply because it's a great way to humiliate the enemy and dicking around with underpowered builds is the great joy of Dust. I have a few questions: 1. Have you tried doing it with your Cal scout? IIRC you can still break 400 melee damage, and I can only assume that the cloak, low signature, and ewar would be very helpful, though I don't know if that makes up for running around with <300 EHP. You CAN get 400 per swing on a scout, but you need to stack Myo Stims in 3 high slots. Compared to a Shotgun or Nova Knives, both of which will do almost in excess of 600dmg and only cost you one weapon slot (which you are required to fill for a viable suit anyway). So just equip an alpha weapon, keep your high slots for shields or EWAR, and still do more damage. Well, no ** sherlock, no one here is arguing that melee is BETTER than a shotgun or NKs. That's precisely why it's an intriguing playstyle. Shotgunning was fun for about a week, now it's boring- I pull it out when I want to annoy the hell out of stompers, but rarely otherwise. Nothing is as satisfying as seeing (Melee) on the kill feed. I never wanted melee to be better than nova knives, so thanks for being rude. What I have said in other threads is that melee has no draw of its own. It directly competes with the close range alpha weapons, but has slow rof and low damage compared to both. If your goal is to play troll, go ahead. It's not like dying by melee is actually any different, in the end they lost a suit. So current melee is fine where it's at for you: super hard mode, bordering almost useless damage output. Half of a nova knife. Using knives would get you more dead proto suits, and would be easier to fit. But then you wouldn't be able to imagine their little heads explode with rage on the other side of the tv screen. My goal is to see the biotics line revitalized, the way EWAR just was. That means at least a fix to the current Myofibril Stimulants, which are underwhelming and under used by any measurement. Even your joke troll fit is just a game you are playing against yourself, Myo Stims aren't actually any good. New mods or equipment would be nice, but having 3 working mods instead of 2 is the first step. It also doesn't help that the broken mod is the high slot one, but I already made that argument earlier. Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick:** I forgive you.
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2059	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:46:00 - [23] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Good stuff, I like it. Let us know if you can melee vehicles...I know you used to be able to knife them. unfortunately, you can't. Anime > EVERYTHING
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 2881	Posted - 2014.04.18 18:11:00 - [24] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: I tried making a melee tanking character today... Was going to name her sharkeisha but some how that names already taken >.> If someone already has that name how come i don't see them playing this game more often?!!!!?? that names gold for a melee tanking character... I might just name it bruce lee if i get bored :/ Oh if only i could kick instead of punch Sharkeisha nooooo!!!!! Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(


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