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knight guard fury
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1005
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Posted - 2014.04.16 01:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
to keep it straight and to the point, similar to eve, shields should be balanced and just as strong as shields.
i suggest making shields half the amount of armor so that way shields wont be too good or really bad.
it would probably be like... armor 85/110/130 shields 42/55/66
this way shield tankers wont be so weak and armor tankers will need more to kill shield tanker and vise versa. this will also hopefully prevent shield tankers from there shields being one shotted
Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior
jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2515
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Posted - 2014.04.16 01:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
There is a lot more missing to the balance than just this, It's a start but nowhere near what CCP iceland has.
For the Federation!
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Yeeeuuuupppp
244
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Posted - 2014.04.16 02:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
I gave up on shields tired of having 500+ shields destroyed within a second and I'm left wounded with like 100 armour. So I am that gal scout you hate.
CCP Saberwing: " War elephants for 1.9"
Mic status: Muted
Feel the wrath of my troll
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
860
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Posted - 2014.04.16 15:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Time people realized that shields =/= armor and that's the point. They represent different play styles. Shields are about hit and run tactics. They recharge fast for this reason. Shields are also about ranged engagements. So, if you're trying to brawl with an armor guy at close ranges, you're going to lose. Armor is about building a huge buffer and surviving over the course of a fight. Armor repairs incredibly slowly (probably too slowly currently with the armor repair unit numbers 2/3/5). Armor has the option of a logi friend to keep your armor repaired.
It boils down to smart play. If you rush an armor user in your caldari suit, then you'll likely have some problems. You should be using a longer-range weapon (like a RR or CR) and hitting from a distance. Chipping their armor down over time. You duck behind cover to regen your shields, and by doing this repeatedly, you'll beat him, because his armor doesn't regenerate nearly as fast as your shields do.
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Banjo Robertson
Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn
158
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Posted - 2014.04.16 18:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
My idea, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155860&find=unread addresses the imbalance of shield and armor for light/medium/heavy suits, and comes up with a better solution of making armor and shield modules a % of the suits base hp. So shield modules get better for shield based dropsuits, and armor modules get better for armor based dropsuits, dual tanking is still an option but less appealing. |
Contaminator Aquarius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
77
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Posted - 2014.04.16 19:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:to keep it straight and to the point, similar to eve, shields should be balanced and just as strong as shields.
i suggest making shields half the amount of armor so that way shields wont be too good or really bad.
it would probably be like... armor 85/110/130 shields 42/55/66
this way shield tankers wont be so weak and armor tankers will need more to kill shield tanker and vise versa. this will also hopefully prevent shield tankers from there shields being one shotted
I must be the only one that doesn't think shields and armor need to be fixed. I think people need to work on realizing that shields tank differently than armor. When it comes down to it the biggest effect tanking has is on heavies and anyone that brick tanks. In the case of heavies the only change that should be made is the introduction of a longer range AI heavy weapon giving shield tankers the opportunity to utilize cover and the peek-a-boo tactics that are required of shields.
admitting you are being illogical doesn't validate your point. It shows you know you are being dumb and keep talking
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1973
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Posted - 2014.04.16 19:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's difficult to really directly rate armor/shield balance in Dust to armor/shield balance in EVE, mostly because
1. Shields passive recharge in Dust is WAY higher than it is in EVE. You wont see a ship going from low shields to full shields in a couple seconds using just their passive recharge. 2. Active Armor Tanking really isn't viable in Dust. Sure you have repair modules but they're typically more for maintainence and less of a means to mitigate damage.
As for shields I think one of the glaring issues for me is the difference between STD, ADV, and PRO shield extenders
STD-->ADV 22HP-->33HP 50% Increase
ADV-->PRO 33HP-->66HP 100% Increase
I find it very strange that you get an increasing marginal return as you move up the tiers. If anything I would expect diminishing returns or at the very least a linear relationship. For starters I'd like to see the Advanced shield extenders be pushed from 33HP to 44HP so the progression is as follows.
STD-->ADV 22HP-->44HP 100% Increase
ADV-->PRO 44HP-->66HP 50% Increase
Once you establish that rate of return, then you can go in and start adjusting base values accordingly.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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knight guard fury
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1008
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Posted - 2014.04.17 01:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:It's difficult to really directly rate armor/shield balance in Dust to armor/shield balance in EVE, mostly because
1. Shields passive recharge in Dust is WAY higher than it is in EVE. You wont see a ship going from low shields to full shields in a couple seconds using just their passive recharge. 2. Active Armor Tanking really isn't viable in Dust. Sure you have repair modules but they're typically more for maintainence and less of a means to mitigate damage.
As for shields I think one of the glaring issues for me is the difference between STD, ADV, and PRO shield extenders
STD-->ADV 22HP-->33HP 50% Increase
ADV-->PRO 33HP-->66HP 100% Increase
I find it very strange that you get an increasing marginal return as you move up the tiers. If anything I would expect diminishing returns or at the very least a linear relationship. For starters I'd like to see the Advanced shield extenders be pushed from 33HP to 44HP so the progression is as follows.
STD-->ADV 22HP-->44HP 100% Increase
ADV-->PRO 44HP-->66HP 50% Increase
Once you establish that rate of return, then you can go in and start adjusting base values accordingly.
actually i was thinking that instead of that delay nerf shields recently had they could change it to shields being reduced in how much they regen per mod
like X% decrease to shield regeneration per stacked mod.
Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior
jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
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knight guard fury
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1008
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Posted - 2014.04.17 01:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
also take into account that shields have always been the same but armor has been adjusted to be more tankable and survivable so shields do need some reworking in hp values only a little
Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior
jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
654
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Posted - 2014.04.17 02:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Time people realized that shields =/= armor and that's the point. They represent different play styles. Shields are about hit and run tactics. They recharge fast for this reason. Shields are also about ranged engagements. So, if you're trying to brawl with an armor guy at close ranges, you're going to lose. Armor is about building a huge buffer and surviving over the course of a fight. Armor repairs incredibly slowly (probably too slowly currently with the armor repair unit numbers 2/3/5). Armor has the option of a logi friend to keep your armor repaired.
It boils down to smart play. If you rush an armor user in your caldari suit, then you'll likely have some problems. You should be using a longer-range weapon (like a RR or CR) and hitting from a distance. Chipping their armor down over time. You duck behind cover to regen your shields, and by doing this repeatedly, you'll beat him, because his armor doesn't regenerate nearly as fast as your shields do. explain amarr the heaviest arm or tankers in the game use lasers, a long range weapon
It'll help define roles, i promise:)
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8449
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Posted - 2014.04.17 02:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:also take into account that shields have always been the same but armor has been adjusted to be more tankable and survivable so shields do need some reworking in hp values only a little Armor has been adjusted BECAUSE shields were better.
Proven in two giant megathreads using all the information collected from a few weeks of trying to find problems with shields vs armor.
However, STD and ADV shields are bad, mm'kay, and that's because of bad scaling. So I agree with the OP.
Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
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Oswald Rehnquist
1336
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Posted - 2014.04.17 03:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shields are under powered for a few reasons
"shield tanking is a different play style, its hit and run", which is a no brainier. 1/2 the hp, medium passive rep that can be interrupted (to make hiding/running necessary) vs 2x the ehp with fast active rep / super slow auto rep that heals while under fire.
That is acceptable
But if that is the balancing factor, then I'd have to question the cpu/pg of shield mods vs armor mods. Shield extenders are pg heavy to encourage caldari to ehp tank (which has medium pg for a shield based race) and regen mods are extrmely high on cpu to make minmatar regen tank (highest cpu race). The set up for this is actually quite clever but regen tanking is not quite so viable because regen is useless without being able to absorb alpha damage.
shield extenders cost about the same pg yet 66% more cpu? Also the shield regen modules are extremely expensive fitting wise and unfortunately pales in comparison to duel tanking in lows or shield extenders in highs (with a few build/suit exceptions like cal sentinel). Essentially to balance shields and armor, armor mods need to a lot more pg to equalize this discrepancy.
Essentially armor and shields needs another go, a % increase would make the most sense, the reactive and ferro could be a flat number as they are now, and redoing the cpu/pg formula between the two
Below 28 dB
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Seymor Krelborn
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1961
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Posted - 2014.04.17 03:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:I gave up on shields tired of having 500+ shields destroyed within a second and I'm left wounded with like 100 armour. So I am that gal scout you hate.
lol not since that ninja pg/cpu nerf they did over downtime...
this game makes me sad....
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8449
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Posted - 2014.04.17 04:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Psst, guys, the average Gal Assault is around 500 HP, because otherwise you're slow and repair even slower.
Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
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