I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.

^ Completely IMO.

I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, Railguns, and missiles.

^ Completely IMO.

fixed. Also, I'll just leave this here

Are you kidding me? So, a madrugar repping 450 armor a second is = to a gunnlogi? I can bet my wallet that if I was trying to kill a tank, it would be a lot easier to kill shield than armor. Shield tank hardeners go down in 30 seconds and most likely hes gonna die without them (especailly cuz they suck now he might even die through them) while an armor tank can just sit there tanking through all the damage ever thrown at him or run away at the speed of light using nitros.

That's like a saying a gallante assault proto with 700 armor, repping 75 armor per second is = to a caldari suit with 350 shields with 4 second delay recharging 30 shield per second.

Are you kidding me? So, a madrugar repping 450 armor a second is = to a gunnlogi? I can bet my wallet that if I was trying to kill a tank, it would be a lot easier to kill shield than armor. Shield tank hardeners go down in 30 seconds and most likely hes gonna die without them (especailly cuz they suck now he might even die through them) while an armor tank can just sit there tanking through all the damage ever thrown at him or run away at the speed of light using nitros.


That's like a saying a gallante assault proto with 700 armor, repping 75 armor per second is = to a caldari suit with 350 shields with 4 second delay recharging 30 shield per second.

I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.

^ Completely IMO.

No he is 100% right.

The stated goals of the tank redesign were

• shield tanks have lower HP but recover faster
• armor tanks have higher HP but recover slower

This meant that shield tanks were supposed to be the hit-and-run tanks (skirmishers) while the armor tanks were supposed to stand their ground and out-slug the opposition.

For a while it was working, exactly the opposite of how it was initially designed (due to triple hardened gunnlogis being able to stand their ground while madrugers took to the skys).

With the hardner nerf, now armor tanks can do both roles much better. They can have higher HP and recover faster, not to mention thanks to overdrives they can also go faster.

Completely out of whack.

Reduce armor reps to 1/3 efficacy and introduce active rep modules at their current efficacy.

Increase shield hardeners to 40s uptime as you need to use them proactively instead of reactively like on an armor tank.

Fix shield boosters FFS and lower their fitting costs slightly

Move damage mods to low slots

These changes would help balance a lot imo.

Caldari tanks were never meant to be fast, that is the niche fulfilled by minmatar tanks.

You wanna know what's weird?

An HMG tore through my incubus' shields and a decent bit of my armour the other day.....I thought handheld weapons weren't supposed to do much...aside from swarms and forge guns.....

While you do that, make the Madrugar less tanky but have more mobility, while do the opposite to the Gunnlogi.
And make sure that the turret rotation speed is low on the gunnlogi.

Why?
Because if you're going to copy EVE in terms of damage mods, copy the whole bloody thing because transplanting one system won't work.

I wouldn't be opposed to giving the maddy a better turn speed either, it's far to slow for a close range brawler imo.

ExFuckingActly.
Though gunnlogis turn plenty fast, so I think that making madrugars faster than that would be a bit absurd.

Reduce gunnlogi turn speed, and increase madrugar turn speed.

No?
No amount of overdrives will give you the mobility of shield tanks.

They don't do anything to your turn speed, which is hugely important.

Shield tanks however are balanced by not giving AV'ers WP for damage.
As an AV'er, all be it a lower skilled (in SP terms) one who also doesn't have PC income to afford perma proto suits, nothing is more annoying now than dealing thousands upon thousands of damage driving shield vehicles off and getting 0WP for it, while those armour tanks are treated as WP on legs for AV since even driving them off is rewarding.

HMGs do increased damage to vehicles if you get close enough, capped at about a third of normal HMG damage if within a half dozen or dozen meters or so..

Are you kidding me? So, a madrugar repping 450 armor a second is = to a gunnlogi? I can bet my wallet that if I was trying to kill a tank, it would be a lot easier to kill shield than armor. Shield tank hardeners go down in 30 seconds and most likely hes gonna die without them (especailly cuz they suck now he might even die through them) while an armor tank can just sit there tanking through all the damage ever thrown at him or run away at the speed of light using nitros.


That's like a saying a gallante assault proto with 700 armor, repping 75 armor per second is = to a caldari suit with 350 shields with 4 second delay recharging 30 shield per second.

Are you serious? That's so dumb!!!!

I think a big issue is that a shield booster is really the only way to 'increase' the rate at which shields rep. I think if they brought back modules which increased the base shield recharge rate by a % and possibly a vehicle version of the Shield Regulator, we would see shield tanks being more effective.

I understand that they needed to bring vehicles back to basics to get a proper baseline, but I think some essential modules were removed that should have remained/been added.

High Slot:
Shield Recharger (+Base Shield Recharge Rate)

Low Slot:
Shield Regulator (-Shield Recharge Delay)
Passive Damage Modifier (Less Bonus than Active)
Nanofiber (+ Speed -Armor)
Passive Speed Booster (+Speed -Ammo Capacity)

CCP also needs to give us our slots back. Either through adv/proto vehicles or simply increase our slots on the current vehicles.

5 slots with more module variety = more fit variety as opposed to only 3 slots. In 1.6, I was able to afford to have a fusion accelerator in one of my highs, and I'm sure nobody expected a Falchion with a fusion accelerator to speed across the ground.

Dropsuit progression sees massive buffs to slot count, so should vehicles. A Cal-logi gets 5-4 while my Gunnlogi gets 3-2? A medium vehicle (dropship) gets one more high slot than my heavy vehicle?

Python is like flying a one way ticket to bankrupsty. It literally takes 1000 damage to shields when landing softly, hitting anything lightly probably takes 2000. Also, most armor dropships can rep right through the swarm damage. The python no longer can therefore Incubus > Python when dealing with swarms. Python is suppose to be hit and run but it's so defenseless that a militia forgegunner can keep python pilot away the whole match since the hardeners nerf.


Also, my tank in 1.6 had 42.5% passive resistance and 5535 shields, now I have 0% resistance passive and 40% that lasts for like 30 seconds with 3945 shields. Only thing that is different is that passive shield recharge is much higher now and shield tanks have good acceleration like they should and also booster are a bit better.


To be honest, I want my chromosome sagaris back. I want it to have missile damage bonuses, reload and ammo per clip bonuses. 5/3 slots and more CPU and PG. Along with passive resistances.

Forge guns now destroy my shield tanks and swarms whiel they barley scratch my tripple repped maddy.

My 1.6 fit had a little over 6100 shield and 38% passive resists while now I only got 5300 shield with 40% resists that's not even active for half of the time.

I think that the missile and shield booster mechanics should have been changed in 1.6 anyways, and shield tanks needed some increased recharge and acceleration as well. 1.7 basically only did what was supposed to be done in 1.6 for shield tanks. I don't think anyone will disagree that shield tanks were UP in 1.6.

I also both love and hate the current recharge mechanics. I love them because of how I can recharge back up to full so fast as compared to 1.6, but also hate them due to the delay and the damage threshold. I don't know if I'd want a reduction to recharge in exchange for constant recharge at all times. It will also only further worsen the gap between passive armor repair and passive shield recharge. I think it would be better if shield recharge was based on % and had a base time to recharge to full, that way adding extenders boosts your recharge.

Enforcers would have been much better if they didn't have the stupid movement penalty. I think the marauders should focus more on defense while the enforcers receive a focus on offense. So the Sagaris could come back with some shield resistance and extender efficacy while the Falchion can come back with missile damage and possibly reload and/or clip size bonus as you mentioned.

These are just my thoughts without much organization

completely agree.

I want them to change the boosters now. They don't really work well often failing me when I need them most. I wish when booster is turned on it makes passive repair constant for 30 seconds no matter the damage with a 200% boost to recharge rate at STD, 250% enhanced, 300% at complex.

My 1.6 fit had a little over 6100 shield and 38% passive resists while now I only got 5300 shield with 40% resists that's not even active for half of the time.

I think that the missile and shield booster mechanics should have been changed in 1.6 anyways, and shield tanks needed some increased recharge and acceleration as well. 1.7 basically only did what was supposed to be done in 1.6 for shield tanks. I don't think anyone will disagree that shield tanks were UP in 1.6.

I also both love and hate the current recharge mechanics. I love them because of how I can recharge back up to full so fast as compared to 1.6, but also hate them due to the delay and the damage threshold. I don't know if I'd want a reduction to recharge in exchange for constant recharge at all times. It will also only further worsen the gap between passive armor repair and passive shield recharge. I think it would be better if shield recharge was based on % and had a base time to recharge to full, that way adding extenders boosts your recharge.

Enforcers would have been much better if they didn't have the stupid movement penalty. I think the marauders should focus more on defense while the enforcers receive a focus on offense. So the Sagaris could come back with some shield resistance and extender efficacy while the Falchion can come back with missile damage and possibly reload and/or clip size bonus as you mentioned.

These are just my thoughts without much organization

Edit: although the range bonus at higher levels was nice on the Falchion, I don't find myself even at half of max range now, mainly due to ammo and reloading purposes. In 1.6 I could actually bombard a certain objective from 280 meters and get random kills due to luck, but 1.8 missiles are impossible to spam accurately at range and it's just wasting ammo when bombarding for suppression.

Also that zoom bonus wasn't noticeable at all.