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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
789
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Shield vehicles die to railguns faster. Shield vehicles die to swarms easier. (while armor vehicles reps right through damage at extreme speeds) the shield vehicle can't rep crap. (very noticeable on dropahips) Shields also have less HP and less top speed. (they can't also fit nitros) Shield vehicles are also bad at fitting damage mods. (they take away from its tank) Shield boosters don't work properly. They don't give back 1900 promised shields and once you get that passive regen back it almost everytime gets stopped 2 seconds later.
Why must we go through this cycle every time CCP. Shield has always been worse than armor and for once in 1.7 shields were superior and then again they are back to sh*t. The only thing at this moment that the shield can actually do better than an armor tank on is fighting a missile tank. But still, 90% of people don't even have missiles. |
Patrick57
6998
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.
^ Completely IMO.
Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
-William Shakespeare
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
789
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.
^ Completely IMO.
Are you kidding me? So, a madrugar repping 450 armor a second is = to a gunnlogi? I can bet my wallet that if I was trying to kill a tank, it would be a lot easier to kill shield than armor. Shield tank hardeners go down in 30 seconds and most likely hes gonna die without them (especailly cuz they suck now he might even die through them) while an armor tank can just sit there tanking through all the damage ever thrown at him or run away at the speed of light using nitros. |
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2004
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, Railguns, and missiles.
^ Completely IMO.
fixed. Also, I'll just leave this here
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Supernus Gigas
sNk Syndicate
755
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, Railguns, and missiles.
^ Completely IMO. fixed. Also, I'll just leave this here
Godin, I'm pretty sure you are the only person who thinks Large Missiles are any kind of OP.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Patrick57
6998
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Posted - 2014.04.15 01:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Are you kidding me? So, a madrugar repping 450 armor a second is = to a gunnlogi? I can bet my wallet that if I was trying to kill a tank, it would be a lot easier to kill shield than armor. Shield tank hardeners go down in 30 seconds and most likely hes gonna die without them (especailly cuz they suck now he might even die through them) while an armor tank can just sit there tanking through all the damage ever thrown at him or run away at the speed of light using nitros. Have you ever even heard of Large Missile Turrets or Railguns?
Sir Dukey wrote:That's like a saying a gallante assault proto with 700 armor, repping 75 armor per second is = to a caldari suit with 350 shields with 4 second delay recharging 30 shield per second. Except, that wouldn't happen.
Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
-William Shakespeare
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8396
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Posted - 2014.04.15 01:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ignoring how my slow ass armor tank takes 5 minutes to do a 360.
Even Titans in EVE do that faster.
Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
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medomai grey
WarRavens League of Infamy
590
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Posted - 2014.04.15 01:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.
^ Completely IMO. Are you kidding me? So, a madrugar repping 450 armor a second is = to a gunnlogi? I can bet my wallet that if I was trying to kill a tank, it would be a lot easier to kill shield than armor. Shield tank hardeners go down in 30 seconds and most likely hes gonna die without them (especailly cuz they suck now he might even die through them) while an armor tank can just sit there tanking through all the damage ever thrown at him or run away at the speed of light using nitros. That's like a saying a gallante assault proto with 700 armor, repping 75 armor per second is = to a caldari suit with 350 shields with 4 second delay recharging 30 shield per second. As an ADS pilot, I would like to testify that shield tanks are worlds easier to kill than armor tanks. And that's with missile turret, that deals explosive damage, more damage to armor.
Medium frame EHP is not medium
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Fire of Prometheus
Alpha Response Command
4241
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 01:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
You wanna know what's weird?
An HMG tore through my incubus' shields and a decent bit of my armour the other day.....I thought handheld weapons weren't supposed to do much...aside from swarms and forge guns.....
Alpha Response Command (ALREC)
The premier training corp for commandos.
Apply today!
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
804
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Posted - 2014.04.15 01:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.
^ Completely IMO.
No he is 100% right.
The stated goals of the tank redesign were
- shield tanks have lower HP but recover faster
- armor tanks have higher HP but recover slower
This meant that shield tanks were supposed to be the hit-and-run tanks (skirmishers) while the armor tanks were supposed to stand their ground and out-slug the opposition.
For a while it was working, exactly the opposite of how it was initially designed (due to triple hardened gunnlogis being able to stand their ground while madrugers took to the skys).
With the hardner nerf, now armor tanks can do both roles much better. They can have higher HP and recover faster, not to mention thanks to overdrives they can also go faster.
Completely out of whack.
Fixing swarms
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad.
2472
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Posted - 2014.04.15 01:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Reduce armor reps to 1/3 efficacy and introduce active rep modules at their current efficacy.
Increase shield hardeners to 40s uptime as you need to use them proactively instead of reactively like on an armor tank.
Fix shield boosters FFS and lower their fitting costs slightly
Move damage mods to low slots
These changes would help balance a lot imo.
Caldari tanks were never meant to be fast, that is the niche fulfilled by minmatar tanks. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8400
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 01:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.
^ Completely IMO. No he is 100% right. The stated goals of the tank redesign were
- shield tanks have lower HP but recover faster
- armor tanks have higher HP but recover slower
This meant that shield tanks were supposed to be the hit-and-run tanks (skirmishers) while the armor tanks were supposed to stand their ground and out-slug the opposition. For a while it was working, exactly the opposite of how it was initially designed (due to triple hardened gunnlogis being able to stand their ground while madrugers took to the skys). With the hardner nerf, now armor tanks can do both roles much better. They can have higher HP and recover faster, not to mention thanks to overdrives they can also go faster. Completely out of whack. No? No amount of overdrives will give you the mobility of shield tanks.
They don't do anything to your turn speed, which is hugely important.
Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8404
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 01:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Reduce armor reps to 1/3 efficacy and introduce active rep modules at their current efficacy.
Increase shield hardeners to 40s uptime as you need to use them proactively instead of reactively like on an armor tank.
Fix shield boosters FFS and lower their fitting costs slightly
Move damage mods to low slots
These changes would help balance a lot imo.
Caldari tanks were never meant to be fast, that is the niche fulfilled by minmatar tanks. While you do that, make the Madrugar less tanky but have more mobility, while do the opposite to the Gunnlogi. And make sure that the turret rotation speed is low on the gunnlogi.
Why? Because if you're going to copy EVE in terms of damage mods, copy the whole bloody thing because transplanting one system won't work.
Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
1914
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 02:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:You wanna know what's weird?
An HMG tore through my incubus' shields and a decent bit of my armour the other day.....I thought handheld weapons weren't supposed to do much...aside from swarms and forge guns.....
HMGs do increased damage to vehicles if you get close enough, capped at about a third of normal HMG damage if within a half dozen or dozen meters or so..
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad.
2473
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 02:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: While you do that, make the Madrugar less tanky but have more mobility, while do the opposite to the Gunnlogi. And make sure that the turret rotation speed is low on the gunnlogi.
Why? Because if you're going to copy EVE in terms of damage mods, copy the whole bloody thing because transplanting one system won't work.
I wouldn't be opposed to giving the maddy a better turn speed either, it's far to slow for a close range brawler imo. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8405
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 02:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Cat Merc wrote: While you do that, make the Madrugar less tanky but have more mobility, while do the opposite to the Gunnlogi. And make sure that the turret rotation speed is low on the gunnlogi.
Why? Because if you're going to copy EVE in terms of damage mods, copy the whole bloody thing because transplanting one system won't work.
I wouldn't be opposed to giving the maddy a better turn speed either, it's far to slow for a close range brawler imo. ExFuckingActly. Though gunnlogis turn plenty fast, so I think that making madrugars faster than that would be a bit absurd.
Reduce gunnlogi turn speed, and increase madrugar turn speed.
Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
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Aardicus
G0DS AM0NG MEN Dirt Nap Squad.
24
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Posted - 2014.04.15 02:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cat Merc wrote: While you do that, make the Madrugar less tanky but have more mobility, while do the opposite to the Gunnlogi. And make sure that the turret rotation speed is low on the gunnlogi.
Why? Because if you're going to copy EVE in terms of damage mods, copy the whole bloody thing because transplanting one system won't work.
I wouldn't be opposed to giving the maddy a better turn speed either, it's far to slow for a close range brawler imo. ExFuckingActly. Though gunnlogis turn plenty fast, so I think that making madrugars faster than that would be a bit absurd. Reduce gunnlogi turn speed, and increase madrugar turn speed.
This. I understand keeping the handling different between the racial tanks, but it is too much imo. Move them both towards the middle a bit, ie slow the gunnlogi and boost the madrugar a bit. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
814
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 03:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.
^ Completely IMO. No he is 100% right. The stated goals of the tank redesign were
- shield tanks have lower HP but recover faster
- armor tanks have higher HP but recover slower
This meant that shield tanks were supposed to be the hit-and-run tanks (skirmishers) while the armor tanks were supposed to stand their ground and out-slug the opposition. For a while it was working, exactly the opposite of how it was initially designed (due to triple hardened gunnlogis being able to stand their ground while madrugers took to the skys). With the hardner nerf, now armor tanks can do both roles much better. They can have higher HP and recover faster, not to mention thanks to overdrives they can also go faster. Completely out of whack. No? No amount of overdrives will give you the mobility of shield tanks. They don't do anything to your turn speed, which is hugely important.
Maybe it would still turn slower, but my god those things can GTFO insanely fast, which is equally important.
Fixing swarms
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Nevyn Tazinas
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 03:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shield tanks however are balanced by not giving AV'ers WP for damage. As an AV'er, all be it a lower skilled (in SP terms) one who also doesn't have PC income to afford perma proto suits, nothing is more annoying now than dealing thousands upon thousands of damage driving shield vehicles off and getting 0WP for it, while those armour tanks are treated as WP on legs for AV since even driving them off is rewarding. |
Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
795
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nevyn Tazinas wrote:Shield tanks however are balanced by not giving AV'ers WP for damage. As an AV'er, all be it a lower skilled (in SP terms) one who also doesn't have PC income to afford perma proto suits, nothing is more annoying now than dealing thousands upon thousands of damage driving shield vehicles off and getting 0WP for it, while those armour tanks are treated as WP on legs for AV since even driving them off is rewarding.
No tanker gives a crap if AV get WP. We give a crap about surviving. |
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Fire of Prometheus
Alpha Response Command
4242
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:You wanna know what's weird?
An HMG tore through my incubus' shields and a decent bit of my armour the other day.....I thought handheld weapons weren't supposed to do much...aside from swarms and forge guns..... HMGs do increased damage to vehicles if you get close enough, capped at about a third of normal HMG damage if within a half dozen or dozen meters or so.. Are you serious? That's so dumb!!!!
Alpha Response Command (ALREC)
The premier training corp for commandos.
Apply today!
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1963
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think a big issue is that a shield booster is really the only way to 'increase' the rate at which shields rep. I think if they brought back modules which increased the base shield recharge rate by a % and possibly a vehicle version of the Shield Regulator, we would see shield tanks being more effective.
I understand that they needed to bring vehicles back to basics to get a proper baseline, but I think some essential modules were removed that should have remained/been added.
High Slot: Shield Recharger (+Base Shield Recharge Rate)
Low Slot: Shield Regulator (-Shield Recharge Delay) Passive Damage Modifier (Less Bonus than Active) Nanofiber (+ Speed -Armor) Passive Speed Booster (+Speed -Ammo Capacity)
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1589
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I could understand infantry Shield / Armor imbalances, but this is working as intended. As far as Shields v Armor, Vehicles are pretty balanced. The only problems are AV, Damage Mods, and Railguns.
^ Completely IMO. Are you kidding me? So, a madrugar repping 450 armor a second is = to a gunnlogi? I can bet my wallet that if I was trying to kill a tank, it would be a lot easier to kill shield than armor. Shield tank hardeners go down in 30 seconds and most likely hes gonna die without them (especailly cuz they suck now he might even die through them) while an armor tank can just sit there tanking through all the damage ever thrown at him or run away at the speed of light using nitros. That's like a saying a gallante assault proto with 700 armor, repping 75 armor per second is = to a caldari suit with 350 shields with 4 second delay recharging 30 shield per second. With regards to the nitrous, the problem comes from the fact that we are so limited on slots.
In EVE, afterburners and micro-warpdrives are also medium slot modules, just like shield modules. However, your Caldari battlecruiser/battleship has between 5-8 medium slots. This means that giving up one slot for an AB or MWD doesn't hurt the Caldari ship as much as giving up 1 out of our 3 high slots for a nitrous on a Gunnlogi.
Also, damage mods NEED to become passive low slot modules, for both infantry and vehicles. Shields are notable as skirmishers that deal massive damage quickly and can take a lot of punishment in a short time frame, while armor is the slow boat that can take a lot of punishment over time while dealing a lot of damage over time. Dust is making shields much more fragile than armor (Caldari and Amarr ships can actually tank the most amount of damage, so shields in EVE aren't even meant to be naturally more fragile) while giving armor the damage bonus.
Dust shields need to have the damage bonus if they are going to remain frail. Also buff shield extenders because even in EVE they don't give as little shield compared to armor plates.
/rant
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1966
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Completely agree, Harpyja. I've had a lot of issues with the placement of damage mods as well as the severe lack of vehicle slots. It has made most fits be the choice between Tank or Gank without room for much else. Armor has an additional upper hand here because many of the useful utility mods are active high slot modules. The lack of available slots simply makes utility too much of a sacrifice to be worth it in most cases.
I do however like the concept of active modules being amped up version of their passive counterparts, but being limited by duration and cooldown instead of a lesser but constant bonus that the passive module offers.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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buzzzzzzz killllllllll
TRA1LBLAZERS
437
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:You wanna know what's weird?
An HMG tore through my incubus' shields and a decent bit of my armour the other day.....I thought handheld weapons weren't supposed to do much...aside from swarms and forge guns..... HMGs do increased damage to vehicles if you get close enough, capped at about a third of normal HMG damage if within a half dozen or dozen meters or so.. Are you serious? That's so dumb!!!!
how? it doesnt stop shield rep, it is outrepped by armor reps, and it requires the pilot to be flying extremely low and just sitting there like a dumbass. the hmg should do full efficiency to vehicles, its a freaking heavy weapon. btw, im a vehicle pilot as well as a heavy, so not biased
Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
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Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1589
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a big issue is that a shield booster is really the only way to 'increase' the rate at which shields rep. I think if they brought back modules which increased the base shield recharge rate by a % and possibly a vehicle version of the Shield Regulator, we would see shield tanks being more effective.
I understand that they needed to bring vehicles back to basics to get a proper baseline, but I think some essential modules were removed that should have remained/been added.
High Slot: Shield Recharger (+Base Shield Recharge Rate)
Low Slot: Shield Regulator (-Shield Recharge Delay) Passive Damage Modifier (Less Bonus than Active) Nanofiber (+ Speed -Armor) Passive Speed Booster (+Speed -Ammo Capacity) CCP also needs to give us our slots back. Either through adv/proto vehicles or simply increase our slots on the current vehicles.
5 slots with more module variety = more fit variety as opposed to only 3 slots. In 1.6, I was able to afford to have a fusion accelerator in one of my highs, and I'm sure nobody expected a Falchion with a fusion accelerator to speed across the ground.
Dropsuit progression sees massive buffs to slot count, so should vehicles. A Cal-logi gets 5-4 while my Gunnlogi gets 3-2? A medium vehicle (dropship) gets one more high slot than my heavy vehicle?
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1966
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yeah, I used to have 5-6 different fits for each vehicle type, now I basically have "Expensive" and "Cheap" versions of each, but even then they're basically the same, just better turrets/modules. The lack of fitting options on vehicles has made fitting a total snooze-fest.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
798
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a big issue is that a shield booster is really the only way to 'increase' the rate at which shields rep. I think if they brought back modules which increased the base shield recharge rate by a % and possibly a vehicle version of the Shield Regulator, we would see shield tanks being more effective.
I understand that they needed to bring vehicles back to basics to get a proper baseline, but I think some essential modules were removed that should have remained/been added.
High Slot: Shield Recharger (+Base Shield Recharge Rate)
Low Slot: Shield Regulator (-Shield Recharge Delay) Passive Damage Modifier (Less Bonus than Active) Nanofiber (+ Speed -Armor) Passive Speed Booster (+Speed -Ammo Capacity) CCP also needs to give us our slots back. Either through adv/proto vehicles or simply increase our slots on the current vehicles. 5 slots with more module variety = more fit variety as opposed to only 3 slots. In 1.6, I was able to afford to have a fusion accelerator in one of my highs, and I'm sure nobody expected a Falchion with a fusion accelerator to speed across the ground. Dropsuit progression sees massive buffs to slot count, so should vehicles. A Cal-logi gets 5-4 while my Gunnlogi gets 3-2? A medium vehicle (dropship) gets one more high slot than my heavy vehicle?
Python is like flying a one way ticket to bankrupsty. It literally takes 1000 damage to shields when landing softly, hitting anything lightly probably takes 2000. Also, most armor dropships can rep right through the swarm damage. The python no longer can therefore Incubus > Python when dealing with swarms. Python is suppose to be hit and run but it's so defenseless that a militia forgegunner can keep python pilot away the whole match since the hardeners nerf.
Also, my tank in 1.6 had 42.5% passive resistance and 5535 shields, now I have 0% resistance passive and 40% that lasts for like 30 seconds with 3945 shields. Only thing that is different is that passive shield recharge is much higher now and shield tanks have good acceleration like they should and also booster are a bit better.
To be honest, I want my chromosome sagaris back. I want it to have missile damage bonuses, reload and ammo per clip bonuses. 5/3 slots and more CPU and PG. Along with passive resistances.
Forge guns now destroy my shield tanks and swarms whiel they barley scratch my tripple repped maddy. |
Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1594
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a big issue is that a shield booster is really the only way to 'increase' the rate at which shields rep. I think if they brought back modules which increased the base shield recharge rate by a % and possibly a vehicle version of the Shield Regulator, we would see shield tanks being more effective.
I understand that they needed to bring vehicles back to basics to get a proper baseline, but I think some essential modules were removed that should have remained/been added.
High Slot: Shield Recharger (+Base Shield Recharge Rate)
Low Slot: Shield Regulator (-Shield Recharge Delay) Passive Damage Modifier (Less Bonus than Active) Nanofiber (+ Speed -Armor) Passive Speed Booster (+Speed -Ammo Capacity) CCP also needs to give us our slots back. Either through adv/proto vehicles or simply increase our slots on the current vehicles. 5 slots with more module variety = more fit variety as opposed to only 3 slots. In 1.6, I was able to afford to have a fusion accelerator in one of my highs, and I'm sure nobody expected a Falchion with a fusion accelerator to speed across the ground. Dropsuit progression sees massive buffs to slot count, so should vehicles. A Cal-logi gets 5-4 while my Gunnlogi gets 3-2? A medium vehicle (dropship) gets one more high slot than my heavy vehicle? Python is like flying a one way ticket to bankrupsty. It literally takes 1000 damage to shields when landing softly, hitting anything lightly probably takes 2000. Also, most armor dropships can rep right through the swarm damage. The python no longer can therefore Incubus > Python when dealing with swarms. Python is suppose to be hit and run but it's so defenseless that a militia forgegunner can keep python pilot away the whole match since the hardeners nerf. Also, my tank in 1.6 had 42.5% passive resistance and 5535 shields, now I have 0% resistance passive and 40% that lasts for like 30 seconds with 3945 shields. Only thing that is different is that passive shield recharge is much higher now and shield tanks have good acceleration like they should and also booster are a bit better. To be honest, I want my chromosome sagaris back. I want it to have missile damage bonuses, reload and ammo per clip bonuses. 5/3 slots and more CPU and PG. Along with passive resistances. Forge guns now destroy my shield tanks and swarms whiel they barley scratch my tripple repped maddy. My 1.6 fit had a little over 6100 shield and 38% passive resists while now I only got 5300 shield with 40% resists that's not even active for half of the time.
I think that the missile and shield booster mechanics should have been changed in 1.6 anyways, and shield tanks needed some increased recharge and acceleration as well. 1.7 basically only did what was supposed to be done in 1.6 for shield tanks. I don't think anyone will disagree that shield tanks were UP in 1.6.
I also both love and hate the current recharge mechanics. I love them because of how I can recharge back up to full so fast as compared to 1.6, but also hate them due to the delay and the damage threshold. I don't know if I'd want a reduction to recharge in exchange for constant recharge at all times. It will also only further worsen the gap between passive armor repair and passive shield recharge. I think it would be better if shield recharge was based on % and had a base time to recharge to full, that way adding extenders boosts your recharge.
Enforcers would have been much better if they didn't have the stupid movement penalty. I think the marauders should focus more on defense while the enforcers receive a focus on offense. So the Sagaris could come back with some shield resistance and extender efficacy while the Falchion can come back with missile damage and possibly reload and/or clip size bonus as you mentioned.
These are just my thoughts without much organization
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
798
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a big issue is that a shield booster is really the only way to 'increase' the rate at which shields rep. I think if they brought back modules which increased the base shield recharge rate by a % and possibly a vehicle version of the Shield Regulator, we would see shield tanks being more effective.
I understand that they needed to bring vehicles back to basics to get a proper baseline, but I think some essential modules were removed that should have remained/been added.
High Slot: Shield Recharger (+Base Shield Recharge Rate)
Low Slot: Shield Regulator (-Shield Recharge Delay) Passive Damage Modifier (Less Bonus than Active) Nanofiber (+ Speed -Armor) Passive Speed Booster (+Speed -Ammo Capacity) CCP also needs to give us our slots back. Either through adv/proto vehicles or simply increase our slots on the current vehicles. 5 slots with more module variety = more fit variety as opposed to only 3 slots. In 1.6, I was able to afford to have a fusion accelerator in one of my highs, and I'm sure nobody expected a Falchion with a fusion accelerator to speed across the ground. Dropsuit progression sees massive buffs to slot count, so should vehicles. A Cal-logi gets 5-4 while my Gunnlogi gets 3-2? A medium vehicle (dropship) gets one more high slot than my heavy vehicle? Python is like flying a one way ticket to bankrupsty. It literally takes 1000 damage to shields when landing softly, hitting anything lightly probably takes 2000. Also, most armor dropships can rep right through the swarm damage. The python no longer can therefore Incubus > Python when dealing with swarms. Python is suppose to be hit and run but it's so defenseless that a militia forgegunner can keep python pilot away the whole match since the hardeners nerf. Also, my tank in 1.6 had 42.5% passive resistance and 5535 shields, now I have 0% resistance passive and 40% that lasts for like 30 seconds with 3945 shields. Only thing that is different is that passive shield recharge is much higher now and shield tanks have good acceleration like they should and also booster are a bit better. To be honest, I want my chromosome sagaris back. I want it to have missile damage bonuses, reload and ammo per clip bonuses. 5/3 slots and more CPU and PG. Along with passive resistances. Forge guns now destroy my shield tanks and swarms whiel they barley scratch my tripple repped maddy. My 1.6 fit had a little over 6100 shield and 38% passive resists while now I only got 5300 shield with 40% resists that's not even active for half of the time. I think that the missile and shield booster mechanics should have been changed in 1.6 anyways, and shield tanks needed some increased recharge and acceleration as well. 1.7 basically only did what was supposed to be done in 1.6 for shield tanks. I don't think anyone will disagree that shield tanks were UP in 1.6. I also both love and hate the current recharge mechanics. I love them because of how I can recharge back up to full so fast as compared to 1.6, but also hate them due to the delay and the damage threshold. I don't know if I'd want a reduction to recharge in exchange for constant recharge at all times. It will also only further worsen the gap between passive armor repair and passive shield recharge. I think it would be better if shield recharge was based on % and had a base time to recharge to full, that way adding extenders boosts your recharge. Enforcers would have been much better if they didn't have the stupid movement penalty. I think the marauders should focus more on defense while the enforcers receive a focus on offense. So the Sagaris could come back with some shield resistance and extender efficacy while the Falchion can come back with missile damage and possibly reload and/or clip size bonus as you mentioned. These are just my thoughts without much organization
completely agree.
I want them to change the boosters now. They don't really work well often failing me when I need them most. I wish when booster is turned on it makes passive repair constant for 30 seconds no matter the damage with a 200% boost to recharge rate at STD, 250% enhanced, 300% at complex. |
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Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1595
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:completely agree.
I want them to change the boosters now. They don't really work well often failing me when I need them most. I wish when booster is turned on it makes passive repair constant for 30 seconds no matter the damage with a 200% boost to recharge rate at STD, 250% enhanced, 300% at complex. That could be a new module which reinforces shield regeneration. I think I would definitely use that over a second shield extender. But 30 seconds some might argue will make it OP, but if it isn't stackable, then it shouldn't be.
Also I updated my previous reply.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
800
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a big issue is that a shield booster is really the only way to 'increase' the rate at which shields rep. I think if they brought back modules which increased the base shield recharge rate by a % and possibly a vehicle version of the Shield Regulator, we would see shield tanks being more effective.
I understand that they needed to bring vehicles back to basics to get a proper baseline, but I think some essential modules were removed that should have remained/been added.
High Slot: Shield Recharger (+Base Shield Recharge Rate)
Low Slot: Shield Regulator (-Shield Recharge Delay) Passive Damage Modifier (Less Bonus than Active) Nanofiber (+ Speed -Armor) Passive Speed Booster (+Speed -Ammo Capacity) CCP also needs to give us our slots back. Either through adv/proto vehicles or simply increase our slots on the current vehicles. 5 slots with more module variety = more fit variety as opposed to only 3 slots. In 1.6, I was able to afford to have a fusion accelerator in one of my highs, and I'm sure nobody expected a Falchion with a fusion accelerator to speed across the ground. Dropsuit progression sees massive buffs to slot count, so should vehicles. A Cal-logi gets 5-4 while my Gunnlogi gets 3-2? A medium vehicle (dropship) gets one more high slot than my heavy vehicle? Python is like flying a one way ticket to bankrupsty. It literally takes 1000 damage to shields when landing softly, hitting anything lightly probably takes 2000. Also, most armor dropships can rep right through the swarm damage. The python no longer can therefore Incubus > Python when dealing with swarms. Python is suppose to be hit and run but it's so defenseless that a militia forgegunner can keep python pilot away the whole match since the hardeners nerf. Also, my tank in 1.6 had 42.5% passive resistance and 5535 shields, now I have 0% resistance passive and 40% that lasts for like 30 seconds with 3945 shields. Only thing that is different is that passive shield recharge is much higher now and shield tanks have good acceleration like they should and also booster are a bit better. To be honest, I want my chromosome sagaris back. I want it to have missile damage bonuses, reload and ammo per clip bonuses. 5/3 slots and more CPU and PG. Along with passive resistances. Forge guns now destroy my shield tanks and swarms whiel they barley scratch my tripple repped maddy. My 1.6 fit had a little over 6100 shield and 38% passive resists while now I only got 5300 shield with 40% resists that's not even active for half of the time. I think that the missile and shield booster mechanics should have been changed in 1.6 anyways, and shield tanks needed some increased recharge and acceleration as well. 1.7 basically only did what was supposed to be done in 1.6 for shield tanks. I don't think anyone will disagree that shield tanks were UP in 1.6. I also both love and hate the current recharge mechanics. I love them because of how I can recharge back up to full so fast as compared to 1.6, but also hate them due to the delay and the damage threshold. I don't know if I'd want a reduction to recharge in exchange for constant recharge at all times. It will also only further worsen the gap between passive armor repair and passive shield recharge. I think it would be better if shield recharge was based on % and had a base time to recharge to full, that way adding extenders boosts your recharge. Enforcers would have been much better if they didn't have the stupid movement penalty. I think the marauders should focus more on defense while the enforcers receive a focus on offense. So the Sagaris could come back with some shield resistance and extender efficacy while the Falchion can come back with missile damage and possibly reload and/or clip size bonus as you mentioned. These are just my thoughts without much organization Edit: although the range bonus at higher levels was nice on the Falchion, I don't find myself even at half of max range now, mainly due to ammo and reloading purposes. In 1.6 I could actually bombard a certain objective from 280 meters and get random kills due to luck, but 1.8 missiles are impossible to spam accurately at range and it's just wasting ammo when bombarding for suppression. Also that zoom bonus wasn't noticeable at all.
the reload times are kind of over kill, I have mine at level 4 right now and it still takes for ever. Also, its annoying how it takes to reload the whole clip and one missile. I often am scared to use my missiles of infantry because I don't want to be ambushed especially now since blasters continue to do damage through resistance because they stop the passive recharge. |
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