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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
589
   |
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP, the High and Low slots are so messed up... If you want us to be armor tankers I think we need more low slots, high slots are pointless for the amarr type game play you are trying to enforce. My proto Amarr heavy has 1 pointless high slots. My Amarr Assault Proto has an extra pointless high slot. Also this is supported by the fact that shield sucks on amarr. The recharge is low and the delay is huge and there is barley any of it.
I can understand the Assault Ak.0 3/3 in 1.7 because it was convenient to shield tank because shield recharge and delay wasn't bad but since now it is, it is pointless. The high slots are more useful to the gallante for precision and other scanning modules.
Suggestion:
Amarr Assault Ak.0- 2/4 high/lows
Amarr Sen Ak.0- 1/4 High/Low |
The Attorney General
2558
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
triple damage modded laser.
How you gonna scramble a fool with only one damage mod?
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10374
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is one of the many many many things currently wrong with the medium frame slots right now.
My thread on the subject: [Request] Medium frame (basic/assault/logi) slot changes/incease
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: [UPDATE]:There are big problems with the medium frame slot layouts that need to be addressed. "Too long; didn't read" (TL;DR) version on post 2 (click here). [Assault & logistics issues] Slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly, just right now brick-tank scouts are bigger issue. Logis sacrifice sidearms, mobility, & base HP in exchange for for 2-3 more equipment (equip) slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equip slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance. - At standard (STD) tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module (mod) slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts. - Advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior mod slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts. - Prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also. Summary: logis underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV, & all OP at PRO.
No reason for the Caldari (Cal) logi only having 2 equip at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for the sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP even compared to the other UP STD logis.
There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD).
Am assault has less mod slots than other assaults. Yes it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari & Gallente assault, a small advantage already countered by being the slowest assault. It should be noted that the Am scout, Am sentinel, & Am commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Am suits aren't forced to give up a slot; neither should the Am assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss. This issue makes the Am assault suffer the most from the brick-tanked scout problem, since the Am scout has more mod slots at STD-ADV than the assault, & same mod slot count at PRO; this allows the Am scout to surpass the Am assault in HP, while being faster, having a 2nd equip, stealthier, etc.
[Solution] Part 1: assault & logi Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).
Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.
Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:
Assault & logi STD (high/low) Am: 2/4 Ga: 2/4 Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 3/3 Assault & logi ADV Am: 2/5 Ga: 3/4 Ca: 5/2 Min: 4/3 Assault & logi PRO Am: 3/5 Ga: 3/5 Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 4/4 [ REMOVED BASIC MEDIUM STUFF TO SAVE SPACE ] Obviously PG/CPU should be tweakedBoth assaults & logis have the same mod slot counts: 6 STD, 7 ADV, 8 PRO. Most logis did not get a mod slot nerf in this plan
Feel free to add your thoughts to the thread I linked.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
591
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:triple damage modded laser.
How you gonna scramble a fool with only one damage mod?
damage mods are sh*tty. anyway, 2 will have to do. |
Seeth Mensch
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Dirt Nap Squad.
165
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:CCP, the High and Low slots are so messed up... If you want us to be armor tankers I think we need more low slots, high slots are pointless for the amarr type game play you are trying to enforce. My proto Amarr heavy has 1 pointless high slots. My Amarr Assault Proto has an extra pointless high slot. Also this is supported by the fact that shield sucks on amarr. The recharge is low and the delay is huge and there is barley any of it.
I can understand the Assault Ak.0 3/3 in 1.7 because it was convenient to shield tank because shield recharge and delay wasn't bad but since now it is, it is pointless. The high slots are more useful to the gallante for precision and other scanning modules.
Suggestion:
Amarr Assault Ak.0- 2/4 high/lows
Amarr Sen Ak.0- 1/4 High/Low
er.
Run Gallente?
Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
591
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:This is one of the many many many things currently wrong with the medium frame slots right now. My thread on the subject: [Request] Medium frame (basic/assault/logi) slot changes/inceaseKAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:[UPDATE]: The 6 at STD, 7 at ADV, 8 at PRO mod slot plan would make mediums competitive, & slayer brick-tanked scouts won't be able to out-tank & outperform medium frames at their own jobs. There is no need to nerf scouts, simply raise mod slot count on medium suits & the brick-tanked scouts won't be an issue. This thread was created before the brick-tanked scout problem, but I strongly believe my proposed slot layout solution for mediums will solve the issue. Read on, I will explain.There are big problems with the medium frame slot layouts that need to be addressed. "Too long; didn't read" (TL;DR) version on post 2 (click here). [Assault & logistics issues] Slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly, just right now brick-tank scouts are bigger issue. Logis sacrifice sidearms, mobility, & base HP in exchange for for 2-3 more equipment (equip) slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equip slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance. - At standard (STD) tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module (mod) slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts. - Advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior mod slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts. - Prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also. Summary: logis underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV, & all OP at PRO.
No reason for the Caldari (Cal) logi only having 2 equip at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for the sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP even compared to the other UP STD logis.
There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD).
Am assault has less mod slots than other assaults. Yes it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari & Gallente assault, a small advantage already countered by being the slowest assault. It should be noted that the Am scout, Am sentinel, & Am commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Am suits aren't forced to give up a slot; neither should the Am assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss. This issue makes the Am assault suffer the most from the brick-tanked scout problem, since the Am scout has more mod slots at STD-ADV than the assault, & same mod slot count at PRO; this allows the Am scout to surpass the Am assault in HP, while being faster, having a 2nd equip, stealthier, etc.
[Solution] Part 1: assault & logi Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).
Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.
Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:
Assault & logi STD (high/low) Am: 2/4 Ga: 2/4 Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 3/3 Assault & logi ADV Am: 2/5 Ga: 3/4 Ca: 5/2 Min: 4/3 Assault & logi PRO Am: 3/5 Ga: 3/5 Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 4/4 [ REMOVED BASIC MEDIUM STUFF TO SAVE SPACE ] Obviously PG/CPU should be tweakedBoth assaults & logis have the same mod slot counts: 6 STD, 7 ADV, 8 PRO. Most logis did not get a mod slot nerf in this plan Feel free to add your thoughts to the thread I linked.
you are giving too many slots at level STD and ADV and also at proto. I dislike the fact that logis and assaults have same slot. Logis in your opinion. I like the slots they have now. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9383
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:CCP, the High and Low slots are so messed up... If you want us to be armor tankers I think we need more low slots, high slots are pointless for the amarr type game play you are trying to enforce. My proto Amarr heavy has 1 pointless high slots. My Amarr Assault Proto has an extra pointless high slot. Also this is supported by the fact that shield sucks on amarr. The recharge is low and the delay is huge and there is barley any of it.
I can understand the Assault Ak.0 3/3 in 1.7 because it was convenient to shield tank because shield recharge and delay wasn't bad but since now it is, it is pointless. The high slots are more useful to the gallante for precision and other scanning modules.
Suggestion:
Amarr Assault Ak.0- 2/4 high/lows
Amarr Sen Ak.0- 1/4 High/Low
Hmmmm true....but not true.
Amarr Armour tank yes.....but we also can run some pretty ridiculous gank as well.
Firepower out to range is Amarr in a nutshell.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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The Attorney General
2558
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:
damage mods are sh*tty. anyway, 2 will have to do.
Stack plates and damage mods, carry an allotek hive.
Burn the infidels with holy fire.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
591
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seeth Mensch wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CCP, the High and Low slots are so messed up... If you want us to be armor tankers I think we need more low slots, high slots are pointless for the amarr type game play you are trying to enforce. My proto Amarr heavy has 1 pointless high slots. My Amarr Assault Proto has an extra pointless high slot. Also this is supported by the fact that shield sucks on amarr. The recharge is low and the delay is huge and there is barley any of it.
I can understand the Assault Ak.0 3/3 in 1.7 because it was convenient to shield tank because shield recharge and delay wasn't bad but since now it is, it is pointless. The high slots are more useful to the gallante for precision and other scanning modules.
Suggestion:
Amarr Assault Ak.0- 2/4 high/lows
Amarr Sen Ak.0- 1/4 High/Low er. Run Gallente?
Dude, seriously. Why would you even say that? You sound stupid as sh*t. |
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
1556
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
I was hoping for a 2H4L set up for the Amarr Assault with 1.8s release but Saberwing or Logibro said that they were going to look at the Assault suits for 1.9 so we might see some changes.
I for one support Kage's idea +1 But I'd be happy with 2H4L as well. But first and foremost can we fix the glitch where skills dont apply at spawns first?
The Sinwarden
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9384
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Seeth Mensch wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CCP, the High and Low slots are so messed up... If you want us to be armor tankers I think we need more low slots, high slots are pointless for the amarr type game play you are trying to enforce. My proto Amarr heavy has 1 pointless high slots. My Amarr Assault Proto has an extra pointless high slot. Also this is supported by the fact that shield sucks on amarr. The recharge is low and the delay is huge and there is barley any of it.
I can understand the Assault Ak.0 3/3 in 1.7 because it was convenient to shield tank because shield recharge and delay wasn't bad but since now it is, it is pointless. The high slots are more useful to the gallante for precision and other scanning modules.
Suggestion:
Amarr Assault Ak.0- 2/4 high/lows
Amarr Sen Ak.0- 1/4 High/Low er. Run Gallente? Dude, seriously. Why would you even say that? You sound stupid as sh*t.
Not really...I mean filthy Minmatar rebels like you have no place wearing our holy dropsuits.
(( FOR THE RP's!))
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10377
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:
you are giving too many slots at level STD and ADV and also at proto. I dislike the fact that logis and assaults have same slot. Logis in your opinion. I like the slots they have now.
Medium frames need more slots to regain their roles from scouts.
The current slot progression by tier is weird. Every other type of suit increments the module slot by 1 with each tier, its the mediums that have too much of a gap.
There is no reason why a logi needs more module slot than an assault. Logis sacrifice sidearm, a slight bit of base HP, and a bit of mobility to gain 2-3 more equipment slots than assaults; that's a fair trade-off without giving logis more slots than assaults. The vast majority of logis have at least 8 module slots at proto, so ts only fair that asaults have 8 at proto as well.
The Amarr medium suits having 1 less module slot than their other racial counterparts does not make sense, and is no way justified. This only happens in medium suits, not in light or heavy suits.
Given all this, I think my proposal is justified.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
|
Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
591
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Seeth Mensch wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CCP, the High and Low slots are so messed up... If you want us to be armor tankers I think we need more low slots, high slots are pointless for the amarr type game play you are trying to enforce. My proto Amarr heavy has 1 pointless high slots. My Amarr Assault Proto has an extra pointless high slot. Also this is supported by the fact that shield sucks on amarr. The recharge is low and the delay is huge and there is barley any of it.
I can understand the Assault Ak.0 3/3 in 1.7 because it was convenient to shield tank because shield recharge and delay wasn't bad but since now it is, it is pointless. The high slots are more useful to the gallante for precision and other scanning modules.
Suggestion:
Amarr Assault Ak.0- 2/4 high/lows
Amarr Sen Ak.0- 1/4 High/Low er. Run Gallente? Dude, seriously. Why would you even say that? You sound stupid as sh*t. Not really...I mean filthy Minmatar rebels like you have no place wearing our holy dropsuits. (( FOR THE RP's!))
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t. |
Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
591
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
you are giving too many slots at level STD and ADV and also at proto. I dislike the fact that logis and assaults have same slot. Logis in your opinion. I like the slots they have now.
Medium frames need more slots to regain their roles from scouts.
The current slot progression by tier is weird. Every other type of suit increments the module slot by 1 with each tier, its the mediums that have too much of a gap.
There is no reason why a logi needs more module slot than an assault. Logis sacrifice sidearm, a slight bit of base HP, and a bit of mobility to gain 2-3 more equipment slots than assaults; that's a fair trade-off without giving logis more slots than assaults. The vast majority of logis have at least 8 module slots at proto, so ts only fair that asaults have 8 at proto as well.
The Amarr medium suits having 1 less module slot than their other racial counterparts does not make sense, and is no way justified. This only happens in medium suits, not in light or heavy suits.
Given all this, I think my proposal is justified.
more slots is going to lead to brick tanking, my amarr assault it running 960 ehp right now, if you give me any more slots ima have more ehp than some heavies. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9384
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels.
(( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.))
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
591
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels. (( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.))
true Amarrian blood sure does look good on my scouts nova knives. The organs are also beautiful when I blow them up like fire cracker with RE's. |
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
1558
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels. (( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.))
I just want my bonuses to work when I spawn in
The Sinwarden
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9386
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels. (( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.)) I just want my bonuses to work when I spawn in
Imperial technicians are working to re-establish the links between the internally run heat sinks on your dropsuits with primary operational systems, additionally I have heard they are looking into suit integrity display bugs.
Trust in the Imperial Shipments, Carthum, and Viziam tech crews to get you back at peak efficiency and go with God noble Templar.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
2524
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels. (( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.))
You have to admit though, the 2/0 (2/1 for Assault) slot layout for Amarr Standard Medium Frames is a bit ridiculous.
A suit with 75% of its HP invested in Armor and not even 1 low slot to fit a Repairer or Reactive Plate? Where is the sense in that?
Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet
Gallente Neutron Rifle
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9386
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels. (( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.)) true Amarrian blood sure does look good on my scouts nova knives. The organs are also beautiful when I blow them up like fire cracker with RE's.
....Sorry I was distracted.
I'm watching half a dozen Matari slaves try to extricate several clone bodies from the Adamance's tracks..... spines are such tough things aren't they.
Grisly work to be sure but I shall ensure all are given days of leave to rest and recover.....
Sorry I have to go....one's wedged in the treads in the treads and someone has to go a tear it out.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10378
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
you are giving too many slots at level STD and ADV and also at proto. I dislike the fact that logis and assaults have same slot. Logis in your opinion. I like the slots they have now.
Medium frames need more slots to regain their roles from scouts.
The current slot progression by tier is weird. Every other type of suit increments the module slot by 1 with each tier, its the mediums that have too much of a gap.
There is no reason why a logi needs more module slot than an assault. Logis sacrifice sidearm, a slight bit of base HP, and a bit of mobility to gain 2-3 more equipment slots than assaults; that's a fair trade-off without giving logis more slots than assaults. The vast majority of logis have at least 8 module slots at proto, so ts only fair that asaults have 8 at proto as well.
The Amarr medium suits having 1 less module slot than their other racial counterparts does not make sense, and is no way justified. This only happens in medium suits, not in light or heavy suits.
Given all this, I think my proposal is justified. more slots is going to lead to brick tanking, my amarr assault it running 960 ehp right now, if you give me any more slots ima have more ehp than some heavies.
Seen heavies with close to 1,500 HP
I personally made a scout fitting with over 700HP
The slots is not the problem, its brick-tanking itself being a dominant strategy that is a problem. HP modules need to be more costly in PG/CPU, and utility modules need to cost less.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Ziiro Celeste
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2014.04.10 01:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:This is one of the many many many things currently wrong with the medium frame slots right now. My thread on the subject: [Request] Medium frame (basic/assault/logi) slot changes/inceaseKAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:[UPDATE]: The 6 at STD, 7 at ADV, 8 at PRO mod slot plan would make mediums competitive, & slayer brick-tanked scouts won't be able to out-tank & outperform medium frames at their own jobs. There is no need to nerf scouts, simply raise mod slot count on medium suits & the brick-tanked scouts won't be an issue. This thread was created before the brick-tanked scout problem, but I strongly believe my proposed slot layout solution for mediums will solve the issue. Read on, I will explain.There are big problems with the medium frame slot layouts that need to be addressed. "Too long; didn't read" (TL;DR) version on post 2 (click here). [Assault & logistics issues] Slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly, just right now brick-tank scouts are bigger issue. Logis sacrifice sidearms, mobility, & base HP in exchange for for 2-3 more equipment (equip) slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equip slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance. - At standard (STD) tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module (mod) slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts. - Advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior mod slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts. - Prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also. Summary: logis underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV, & all OP at PRO.
No reason for the Caldari (Cal) logi only having 2 equip at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for the sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP even compared to the other UP STD logis.
There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD).
Am assault has less mod slots than other assaults. Yes it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari & Gallente assault, a small advantage already countered by being the slowest assault. It should be noted that the Am scout, Am sentinel, & Am commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Am suits aren't forced to give up a slot; neither should the Am assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss. This issue makes the Am assault suffer the most from the brick-tanked scout problem, since the Am scout has more mod slots at STD-ADV than the assault, & same mod slot count at PRO; this allows the Am scout to surpass the Am assault in HP, while being faster, having a 2nd equip, stealthier, etc.
[Solution] Part 1: assault & logi Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).
Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.
Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:
Assault & logi STD (high/low) Am: 2/4 Ga: 2/4 Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 3/3 Assault & logi ADV Am: 2/5 Ga: 3/4 Ca: 5/2 Min: 4/3 Assault & logi PRO Am: 3/5 Ga: 3/5 Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 4/4 [ REMOVED BASIC MEDIUM STUFF TO SAVE SPACE ] Obviously PG/CPU should be tweakedBoth assaults & logis have the same mod slot counts: 6 STD, 7 ADV, 8 PRO. Most logis did not get a mod slot nerf in this plan Feel free to add your thoughts to the thread I linked.
You know linking to your own threads is actually against forum rules, makes you look desperate for attention, and quite frankly is getting old.
The forgotten "A" in AAA
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COVERT SUBTERFUGE
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
DARKSTAR ARMY
891
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
I believe Logibro said that the slot layouts may be addressed post 1.8.
Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 7/10
Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome
Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL - eWar Merc
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
4109
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Posted - 2014.04.10 05:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels. (( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.)) true Amarrian blood sure does look good on my scouts nova knives. The organs are also beautiful when I blow them up like fire cracker with RE's. ....Sorry I was distracted. I'm watching half a dozen Matari slaves try to extricate several clone bodies from the Adamance's tracks..... spines are such tough things aren't they. Grisly work to be sure but I shall ensure all are given days of leave to rest and recover..... Sorry I have to go....one's wedged in the treads in the treads and someone has to go a tear it out.
This is a lie.
Adamance doesn't run people over in tanks. I've seen it, everyone is gunned down before they get within 5m
I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost
I hack at Mach V
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
593
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Posted - 2014.04.10 10:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels. (( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.)) true Amarrian blood sure does look good on my scouts nova knives. The organs are also beautiful when I blow them up like fire cracker with RE's. ....Sorry I was distracted. I'm watching half a dozen Matari slaves try to extricate several clone bodies from the Adamance's tracks..... spines are such tough things aren't they. Grisly work to be sure but I shall ensure all are given days of leave to rest and recover..... Sorry I have to go....one's wedged in the treads in the treads and someone has to go a tear it out.
Sorry, what? I can't hear you over my HMG... I'm kind of busy ripping holes into you scrubs... |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Dirt Nap Squad.
711
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Posted - 2014.04.10 11:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
A zealot has 3 high slots and 7 lows. Plus alot of laser bonuses as a heavy assault cruiser.
This is what the amarr assault suit should be.
or sacrilege with Hugh resistances (near immunity to explosives)
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Byozuma Kegawa
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
216
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
The thing about Amarr dropsuits was explained back in, what was it. 1.6? 1.7? They have more high than low because of the extra armor they have (and less speed compared to like dropsuits). It's been compared to having a permanent armor plate that can't be removed. To offset that they get an extra high slot. And logistics get a sidearm. On militia level Amarr basic dropsuits get no low slots! It part of the dropsuit diversity. Just got to live with it. |
Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2063
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
+stamina, +HP, -Speed. The bonus and penalty are not high enough to warrant the loss of a slot. +1 low slots and see where it goes from there.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
742
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Posted - 2014.04.10 14:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
you are giving too many slots at level STD and ADV and also at proto. I dislike the fact that logis and assaults have same slot. Logis in your opinion. I like the slots they have now.
Medium frames need more slots to regain their roles from scouts.
The current slot progression by tier is weird. Every other type of suit increments the module slot by 1 with each tier, its the mediums that have too much of a gap.
There is no reason why a logi needs more module slot than an assault. Logis sacrifice sidearm, a slight bit of base HP, and a bit of mobility to gain 2-3 more equipment slots than assaults; that's a fair trade-off without giving logis more slots than assaults. The vast majority of logis have at least 8 module slots at proto, so ts only fair that asaults have 8 at proto as well.
The Amarr medium suits having 1 less module slot than their other racial counterparts does not make sense, and is no way justified. This only happens in medium suits, not in light or heavy suits.
Given all this, I think my proposal is justified.
I just want to say I like your idea, for the most part. However, using the precedent set by the Heavy Frames (I know its a new precedent, but it is one none the less) the Logi suits should have 1 less total slot (weapons, highs, lows, and equipment combined) than Assaults, as they are more specialized variant of the Medium suit (the Commando has one less total slot than the Sentinel, and the Sentinel is the more basic variant). This would give Assaults more Module slots, while Logis would still have their equipment role, but with less tank ability. This all using Proto suits as a base and working down to basic, mind you.
The total number of slots, however, gets difficult. Proto Scouts have a total of 11 Slots at Proto (6 Module, 2 EQ, 1 LW, 1 SA, 1 G), so to give Mediums some edge, you would need at least 12 slots. Accounting for 4 EQ, 1 LW, 1 G on average in the new design, you have 6 module slots (same as Scouts). While this can create different layouts well enough 5/1, 4/2, 3/3, I run into a problem with Assaults. You would have 1LW, 1SA, 1G, and 1 EQ. That leaves 9 slots (with Assaults having 1 additional Total Slot), so, you only have a 5/4 4/5 split.
How would people feel if the Logi, being more specialized, had 1 less slot in total than the Assault? I should probably just ask that elsewhere, and I will. Just wanted to say I liked your idea for the most part Kagehoshi.
xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own...
So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9422
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Posted - 2014.04.10 20:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Oh stfu with your amarr holy loyalist bullsh*t.
To serve the Empire is a noble cause....it is a shame you cannot see it beyond your tears..... I too understand..... sometimes I weep for my Imperial HAV.....but I remember that I am of True Amarrian blood, deserving of such Imperial armaments. I am chosen by God to spread the light of the Faith across the stars, and tasked to eliminate the pretenders, the apostates, and the rebels. (( Game play wise the Amarr are still really good...don't know why you want to change them.)) true Amarrian blood sure does look good on my scouts nova knives. The organs are also beautiful when I blow them up like fire cracker with RE's. ....Sorry I was distracted. I'm watching half a dozen Matari slaves try to extricate several clone bodies from the Adamance's tracks..... spines are such tough things aren't they. Grisly work to be sure but I shall ensure all are given days of leave to rest and recover..... Sorry I have to go....one's wedged in the treads in the treads and someone has to go a tear it out. Sorry, what? I can't hear you over my HMG... I'm kind of busy ripping holes into you scrubs...
Do the Matari not teach their soldier of the efficiencies of their own weapons...... small calibre rounds do not pierce tank armour.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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