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Small Railguns/blasters and Assault Dropships

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Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 57	Posted - 2014.04.09 06:43:00 - [1] - Quote Small Railgun Turrets - What they (are supposed to) do: Fire rails like a rail tank, but, well, smaller in damage, blast radius and size. What they are (supposed to be) used for: Anti-vehicle, against LAVs and other Dropships. What they actually do: Nothing against anything besides another dropship, and ONLY if it is a python or a Grimsnes/Incubus without reps. The problem: Small railguns are virtually impossible to use on an Assault Dropship as the pilot. It has the same "sights" as the small blaster turret, which is nothing. You have a small chance to use the railgun turret only when in first person mode in the dropship, and only against other dropships. In the standard 3rd person mode, due to how they operate, small rails fire exactly where that dot is, making its use against LAVs void since they are a ground vehicle, hence operate below your ship, meaning you have to get ground-level or fight for days trying to figure out where the dot is when looking down and keeping it steady. Let us not also forget the damage output of small rails. They're supposed to be anti-armor weaponry but do little against anything armor (as referenced above in what they actually do). Also due to their sights it is next to impossible to get infantry kills since the blast radius does nothing and is virtually non-existent. Here's a list: No sights Not usable against any armor-repping vehicles (even if it is basic Can not be used against LAV's effectively. Low damage output & virutally non-existent blast radius I mean, I could be all for the lower damage output if it had a higher threshold for overheating, but it doesn't. Skilling into the Gallente ADS gives a 50% (fifty percent) increase to Rate of Fire for hybrid weapons. That RoF increase sounds nice, but is not effective against well, anything really. The overheating would outweigh that bonus, making it useless. The same applies to the small blaster turret. Small Blaster Turret - What they (are supposed to) do: Fire fast and accurately, putting out an extremely high DPS (augmented by the Gallente ADS bonus). What they (are supposed to be) used for: Killing infantry. What they actually do: Almost nothing. The problem: In the hands of an accurate side gunner, they can be somewhat effective. The problem is that you have to be exactly on the mark for it to get a hit. Not only that, but the damage it does against infantry isn't much since they can generally just side-step and avoid what would have been enough plasma to melt them into nothing. Now, what I don't get is why they have a splash animation for when it hits the ground. CCP had (keyword right there) implemented a blast radius to small blasters, but revoked that. It was essentially the only thing making the small blasters useful. Excluding that, being the pilot and using a small blaster turret is akin to the small railgun; virtually impossible to use. There are no sights, and since there is no blast radius, you have to be in first person and at the level of your target to even try using it effectively. This makes it just another money sink. Here's a list: No sights. Not usable against infantry as a pilot, and rarely a side gunner. No blast radius/ must be a direct hit at all times. Damage output makes it useless against most infantry even if you do hit. The same final statement to the railguns can be applied to blasters. The RoF increase means nothing if you overheat faster. But overheating isn't even the problem with small blasters, it's the inability to effectively hit targets. I wonder what that leaves us with? Who could have guessed!? Small Missile Turrets. Not only is it effective against infantry, it is effective against LAVs, dropships and even tanks. The damage output is good, the fire rate is good, and its blast radius is great. Now, I'm not complaining about missile turrets, because they are necessary and quite frankly, the only viable option to use when flying an ADS or even being a gunner. I'm pretty sure for all of these turrets to be even remotely effective in their own right drastic changes need to be made. My proposed changes (obviously opinionated and probably incorrect in values and such): Increase overheat threshold for small railguns (maybe a bonus for Gallente skilling?) Increase damage output of small blasters/railguns. Give small rails a larger blast radius (not too much) and small blasters a blast radius as well. For the love of God, give small rails and blasters their own 3rd person sights. Missiles have them, the others need their own. Give me my laser turrets and Amarr dropship. () Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12162	Posted - 2014.04.09 07:03:00 - [2] - Quote I know DUST Fiend runs rails on his Incubus sometimes but I don't know anyone who seriously runs blasters. Missiles are pretty much the only turret used much on an ADS. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1054	Posted - 2014.04.09 07:20:00 - [3] - Quote Could go HMG with the blaster and make it so there's a 'cone' of fire that the shots land in, increase damage per shot, an make blasters have a cone of fire. Rails need to not hit the flight ceiling when you're 10 degrees off level. Sometimes ya just feel like surfin
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 621	Posted - 2014.04.09 07:35:00 - [4] - Quote I kill infantry with my rail turret on my incubus. Might be a bit sensitive to control turret and flying at the same time but once you got it down, you're practically a flying precise sniper. I feel that rails should do more damage to tanks than missiles do. But I dont think the damage output is the problem, more the overheating aspect like you mentioned. I can get more missiles off and only have to worry about reload. Rails have 2 breaks, reload and heat dissipation. Gives vehicles more time to heal... especially if you miss. Missiles are the most well rounded agreed. Not to mention the skills I acquired practicing with the rail turret, I dont rely on splash damage anymore, direct hits every time. Blasters are fun, but they need a damage increase. Especially since suits will be getting resistances to different weapons, the blaster turret will do less damage than ever before. Lots of assists. But does nothing to any type of vehicle. The blaster turret should be the least effective AV Turret.... but should still do something. The way I always saw the turrets when compared to each other were like this: Rails: Advantage against vehicles; Disadvantage to infantry Missiles: Not as good as rail but better than blaster against vehicles; Not as good as blaster but better than rail against infantry (The in between turret for everything; No strengths but no weakness either) Blasters: Disadvantage against vehicles; Advantage to infantry Not sure if that was changed when they redid vehicles. Turrets need to be redone as well to better implement vehicle/dropsuit core changes. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 57	Posted - 2014.04.09 07:35:00 - [5] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Could go HMG with the blaster and make it so there's a 'cone' of fire that the shots land in, increase damage per shot, an make blasters have a cone of fire. Rails need to not hit the flight ceiling when you're 10 degrees off level. Blasters having a cone of fire might make them more useful, but only if they received a small AoE. Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 57	Posted - 2014.04.09 07:40:00 - [6] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: [...] The way I always saw the turrets when compared to each other were like this: Rails: Advantage against vehicles; Disadvantage to infantry Missiles: Not as good as rail but better than blaster against vehicles; Not as good as blaster but better than rail against infantry (The in between turret for everything; No strengths but no weakness either) Blasters: Disadvantage against vehicles; Advantage to infantry Not sure if that was changed when they redid vehicles. Turrets need to be redone as well to better implement vehicle/dropsuit core changes. I agree with this entirely. Missiles as a whole can't be less than a blaster simply because they have a splash radius. Assuming they did change turrets so that blasters had that small AoE then they wold indeed outweigh missiles in the anti-infantry category as they did in 1.6 (I think it was?). I've been tinkering with the railgun but I can't find a stable way of firing it off at anything without being in first person. Adding unique sights to the two other turrets would also be a welcomed change. Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1077	Posted - 2014.04.09 08:24:00 - [7] - Quote I will eventually try out a rail incubus, but small rails on tanks are the best anti infantry you can get.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 361	Posted - 2014.04.09 09:04:00 - [8] - Quote You say small rails are good for nothing? Yet my tank has been destroyed by single Incubus with small rails before I even knew what hit me. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 58	Posted - 2014.04.09 09:27:00 - [9] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: You say small rails are good for nothing? Yet my tank has been destroyed by single Incubus with small rails before I even knew what hit me. Edit: I mean no disrespect or to disagree with your post generally. None taken. But odds are were that you had been struck by something else at the time. Small rails don't really have the ability to kill a healthy tank. He probably stole somebody's kill. Go ahead, try using a small rail yourself, you'll know what I mean by "inability" if you haven't used one before. Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
ishtellian SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2014.04.09 10:22:00 - [10] - Quote Personally, I think small railguns are fine, I do agree with the overhear bonus however and fixing the camera on th ADSs so you can actually aim. Small railguns can easily take out dropships and LAV's if you have a skilled gunner, I took one out with my solo LAV and a adv railgun. My Heavy Never Dies. Logibro In training.

Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 58	Posted - 2014.04.09 10:27:00 - [11] - Quote ishtellian wrote: Personally, I think small railguns are fine, I do agree with the overhear bonus however and fixing the camera on th ADSs so you can actually aim. Small railguns can easily take out dropships and LAV's if you have a skilled gunner, I took one out with my solo LAV and a adv railgun. Small railguns only have a possible efficiency against other dropships (mainly shield variants from my experience). Sure, an LAV can be taken out with a skilled gunner. But what if you are the gunner? That's what I'm getting at. They're not worth the use, money and skillpoints right now since I usually fly with no gunners (lack of PG/CPU on muh Incubus). Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
Beld Errmon 1580	Posted - 2014.04.09 10:32:00 - [12] - Quote They really should implement something where a turrets behaviour is modified by what its on, or at least have a second set of small turrets for dropships, small blasters and railguns are fine on LAVs, but terrible for dropships. Small blasters need a 100m+ long range with a cone of fire, not great at killing infantry at long range but does enough dmg to make ppl run for cover, small rails should be more like a dropship mounted forge gun, slow rate of fire but fairly hard hitting, but naturally not as hard as a forgegun. Rise and rise again until lambs become lions.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 449	Posted - 2014.04.09 10:39:00 - [13] - Quote Small rails are prettymuch fine, just not easy to use, if you have a decent chunk of sp invested in gallente assault dropship, small rails (& fitting), armor(& fitting), and dmg mods, you can get a proto rail, damage mod and complex fittings on an incubus and fire 3-4 rounds a second. No it isn't very good against infantry but it rips other vehicles to pieces. The small blaster needs serious work though especially in terms of amount of ammo carried, range and dispersion/splash. I'd give it a decent 'cone' out to 75m with 1.4m splash for half damage... And flat double the amount of ammo it carries.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 361	Posted - 2014.04.09 10:47:00 - [14] - Quote Kaminoikari wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: You say small rails are good for nothing? Yet my tank has been destroyed by single Incubus with small rails before I even knew what hit me. Edit: I mean no disrespect or to disagree with your post generally. None taken. But odds are were that you had been struck by something else at the time. Small rails don't really have the ability to kill a healthy tank. He probably stole somebody's kill. Go ahead, try using a small rail yourself, you'll know what I mean by "inability" if you haven't used one before. Actually he just had Incubus at level 5 and exceptionally good aim, I had a witness to the situation who died in my tank too, there were no other forms of AV on the field. I do know however that they are hard to aim in a dropship. In the first volley he took my Gunnlogi down to around 100 armor and as soon as he cooled down I died. And I remember my reaction being like "Oh my god what the hell?!" and I paniced like never before. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 58	Posted - 2014.04.09 10:56:00 - [15] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Small rails are prettymuch fine, just not easy to use, if you have a decent chunk of sp invested in gallente assault dropship, small rails (& fitting), armor(& fitting), and dmg mods, you can get a proto rail, damage mod and complex fittings on an incubus and fire 3-4 rounds a second. [...] The problem with that kind of fitting is the lack of afterburner necessary for the inevitable rail tank/forge gunner. I pretty much need one on my fittings due to frame rate problems whenever I move too fast in it. Those issues prevent me from utilizing my sky-brick to the most. Now, during the time there are no AV, sure, a damage mod will aid extremely well when facing other vehicles. But against another ADS, all they'd have to do it afterburner above you and, well, you're screwed for the most part (not entirely though). Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
XV1 The Legion of X 58	Posted - 2014.04.17 03:44:00 - [16] - Quote I feel that the ADS needs something to make it more useful against targets smaller than a tank, like maybe something we can hold to have it hold its current elevation and angle....... Sure would make shooting easier. Currently to readjust your aim you have to alter your flight path and drift off to the side, forward, or backward, unless of course your are firing on the same plane, but only other DS are at that height and currently firing at them is not really difficult. Don't get me wrong, they are useable and some pilots are quite skilled at hitting infantry, though normally with splash from missiles. It is terribly difficult to fire at anything with much precision without extreme practice and at a half a mil a pop easily (more with better fitting) it makes it discouraging to attempt piloting these long enough to get any real practice in. It is more likely that someone trying them out with go a few games with minimal WP and extreme isk loss and give up on the idea, or lose isk flying into obstacles trying to get a shot on that guy standing in the open not moving much.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1604	Posted - 2014.04.17 03:53:00 - [17] - Quote You guys speak of the assault dropship pilot turret as if it were meant to be such a platform to utilize these small turrets to their full potential. The ADS is still just a troop transport vehicle with a little extra suppression power from the pilot. LAVs and dropship gunners make better use of the small turrets. Small railguns and blasters are actually good for dropship side gunners and LAVs as well. They are also very effective on tanks. I personally think they are fine except for maybe having too slow of a tracking speed. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
XV1 The Legion of X 58	Posted - 2014.04.17 04:22:00 - [18] - Quote Harpyja wrote: You guys speak of the assault dropship pilot turret as if it were meant to be such a platform to utilize these small turrets to their full potential. The ADS is still just a troop transport vehicle with a little extra suppression power from the pilot. LAVs and dropship gunners make better use of the small turrets. Small railguns and blasters are actually good for dropship side gunners and LAVs as well. They are also very effective on tanks. I personally think they are fine except for maybe having too slow of a tracking speed. Assault not Support or Suppressive.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1604	Posted - 2014.04.17 04:26:00 - [19] - Quote XV1 wrote: Harpyja wrote: You guys speak of the assault dropship pilot turret as if it were meant to be such a platform to utilize these small turrets to their full potential. The ADS is still just a troop transport vehicle with a little extra suppression power from the pilot. LAVs and dropship gunners make better use of the small turrets. Small railguns and blasters are actually good for dropship side gunners and LAVs as well. They are also very effective on tanks. I personally think they are fine except for maybe having too slow of a tracking speed. Assault not Support or Suppressive. Assault *dropship*. Dropships are troop transports capable of providing limited support and cover fire to get troops in and out of hot zones safely. The assault variant just gives the pilot a turret do add extra fire. People are just misusing them (myself included) as solo gunships. ADS are not meant to be solo gunships. A proper aerial assault vehicle would be a fighter and/or a gunship. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 87	Posted - 2014.04.17 04:34:00 - [20] - Quote Harpyja wrote: XV1 wrote: Harpyja wrote: You guys speak of the assault dropship pilot turret as if it were meant to be such a platform to utilize these small turrets to their full potential. The ADS is still just a troop transport vehicle with a little extra suppression power from the pilot. LAVs and dropship gunners make better use of the small turrets. Small railguns and blasters are actually good for dropship side gunners and LAVs as well. They are also very effective on tanks. I personally think they are fine except for maybe having too slow of a tracking speed. Assault not Support or Suppressive. Assault *dropship. Dropships are troop transports capable of providing limited support and cover fire to get troops in and out of hot zones safely. The assault variant just gives the pilot a turret do add extra fire. People are just misusing them (myself included) as solo gunships. ADS are not meant to be solo gunships. A proper aerial assault vehicle would be a fighter and/or a gunship. It may as well be called an Assault gunship* because you can hardly fit any extra turrets on and its troop carrying capacity is reduced by 2 (4 without turrets). Obviously with no true heavy aerial vehicle it means we're forced to make do with what we have. Since we don't, the ADS is the only assault air vehicle in the game. Give us the damn aerial heavys and the game will be rawlin' with AV making Dropships completely moot. Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets

XV1 The Legion of X 58	Posted - 2014.04.17 06:16:00 - [21] - Quote Oh I see why it is called a Dropship. You either drop the idea of it doing anything beneficial or it drops from the sky smoldering. The only reason to fly one now is to get up to a nice tall perch. Without the turrets it is essentially flying suicide. The assault variant should at the least be able to assault on the simplest scale. Current dropship mechanics make it near impossible to aim the turret at anything, and the unforgiving turrets only really damage on a direct hit, unless you run missiles which take considerably more SP.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3399	Posted - 2014.04.17 10:53:00 - [22] - Quote My main problem is the aiming sights I aim in 3rd person view most of the time The railgun and blaster has a dot which is nearly impossible to see through the DS and if the hardener is on then im guessing


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