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Why is Tank TTK so low.

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Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 1990	Posted - 2014.04.07 20:44:00 - [1] - Quote You go out of your way to make sure infantry TTK takes longer but you cut tank TTK in half? 1.7 using 2 complex shield hardeners and a complex Damage Mod and a complex 180 Plate it took 8 shots to kill a mirror fit Same fit 1.8 4 shots for Dual Damage mod single hardener its gone from 4 to 2 A dual hardener fit used to be able to take 5-6 shots to kill by dual hardened now 2 Running more than 1 hardener is now useless unless your stacking 3 and TTK's so fast it's more who sees who first I have had a few Tank vs. Tank where I was actually able to use skill to my advantage but it's just ridiculous to cut already too short TTK in half My Proposed Changes #1 -Return Hardeners to their former glory -buff AV to do damage proportional to what it does now -slow down ROF slightly or #2 -Nerf damage mods to do proportional damage to what 1.7 was -Slow down ROF Side note -make max Rail Range 500M (Fall off after 300m) I'm a carried scrub!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 973	Posted - 2014.04.07 20:45:00 - [2] - Quote nm Looking for the scout hangout?
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1801	Posted - 2014.04.07 20:47:00 - [3] - Quote Rail turret and same power level mil mods. That is the only real problem right now. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6449	Posted - 2014.04.07 20:48:00 - [4] - Quote TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Rusty Shallows 1439	Posted - 2014.04.07 20:52:00 - [5] - Quote At least the O.P. is pitching. Without knowing what the Devs are think I'm not sure if it's even worth talking about. We tried this last year and in the end they only responded to the Nerf Brigade. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 1059	Posted - 2014.04.07 20:56:00 - [6] - Quote The problem with just buffing AV damage is that anything without a hardener is now dead. This means that a dropship that gets hit by a Forge Gun without having their hardener on is pretty much toast. Same with LAV's. Also means that weapons that can be used against Infantry (Forge Gun and Plasma Cannon) become more deadly. I had a suggestion that was "Revert Hardener nerf and allow AV weapon to pierce a certain amount". Either to or nerf damage modifiers. They were 30% to help overcome the hardeners. Hardeners were nerfed but damage mods weren't. At the moment, a double damage mod Sica can kill just about anything in a 1v1 fight where both targets fire and hit at the same time. Before they needed to get the drop on people, now a defense oriented tank needs to shoot and hit first. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12108	Posted - 2014.04.07 20:58:00 - [7] - Quote Oh look, a reasonable tanker. ... Is that a flying pig outside? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 1991	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:09:00 - [8] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: At least the O.P. is pitching. Without knowing what the Devs are think I'm not sure if it's even worth talking about. We tried this last year and in the end they only responded to the Nerf Brigade. Well before it was just a shot in the dark because they cater to infantry which makes up the core of the game which is totally reasonable from a business perspective but now there actually going through a series of hot fixes and these small changes only touching a couple statistics might actually happen so I'm trying to be optimistic but I know CCP by now. I'm a carried scrub!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6452	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:13:00 - [9] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Oh look, a reasonable tanker. ... Is that a flying pig outside? You know there's actually a pilot on the forums named TheAmazing FlyingPig Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Scheherazade VII 401	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:18:00 - [10] - Quote a tanker calling for an av nerf!?!? the reign of tanker terror is finally over! HTFU adapt or die welcome to new eden or my favourite: "tanks are in a good place now".

Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1537	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:22:00 - [11] - Quote Balancing the Large Turrets Give it a read. It's my view on how the large turrets should be changed to balance tank vs tank, because touching the mods (hardeners specifically) will require rebalancing the infantry AV weapons and I find infantry AV vs tank to be in a good spot right now. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32 Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2300	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:26:00 - [12] - Quote Your numbers are a little off but the concept hold very true. With the range nerf to rails there is no advantage to defending or attacking side of maps. There used to be an effective way of tiering your tanks where the triple hardened fit would be up front and the triple damage mod would be in the back. Now there is no point to that with a 300m range which all tanks operate on the edge of. Once a tank moves 1 m closer it is three shotted. The problem with tanks
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 770	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:35:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. OK IM CALLING BS ! in one clip you have 9 rounds for a pro rail its 1889 dmg a shot the avg hp in a hav is 5000 ~ armor do,s -10% for incoming rail dmg. so on avg a pro rail needs to pull off 3 shots to kill a hav add in the fact that rail vs rail are no longer cover and fire you have more changes to miss now then ever on top of this you can only get off 5 round be for the rail over heats and 4 if you want to brake your fire into one shots and uses the rest of the clip with out over heat . where im i going with this ? the max a a rail tank can handle is only 2 tanks its why smart drivers will ram a there armor tank in to a shield tank and then unload on it to safe there ammo and heat build up for the 2nd tank. But why Bad ? why only 2 tanks you still have 3 round . no tank in game can take go 1 vs 3 head on vsing players of even skill even if you ram the 1st and K.O. it in the ram you stilll have 2 tanks that are shooting you there's just not anuff HP for a Hav to with stand that . the only way would to ram kill brake contacted with the other 2 tanks and run be hind a wall or cove to reload or get hp reped up and then have them drive to you and even then that's not head on . only truly skilled and LUCKY tankers have pulled this off me being one of them and all will tell you its was at less then 100 hp ! on your tanks when it was over. remember i said Even skill ! Not SP ! so no 3-4 is wrong its 2 maybe a 3rd if your getting more then 4 then its them not you. Quote: Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. not so iv been on a the side getting hit 1st a lot of times and will say its not who saw who its who is where and where you are vs what you can do and what they can do . iv seen battle of 1 v 1 go from 1 sided for the guy that got hit 1st. to PWN in the name of GOD in just a small dive between something and 2 shots back ! Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
21yrOld Knight Proficiency V. 643	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:57:00 - [14] - Quote Can't tell if troll or serious? Gotta be troll. * Looks at forums before 1.8 * Ya gotta be troll. Mike Ruan Said i was Dust Famous! Did he just talk in #'s Volunteer member of the Arkombine, but i don't want out.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1967	Posted - 2014.04.07 22:03:00 - [15] - Quote I'll just leave this here click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1064	Posted - 2014.04.07 22:05:00 - [16] - Quote this is sad....... #1. No Maybe No Side note, Do you want redline rails back? Even shorter tank engagements?! The railgun range is finally somewhere that it can't be abused! If anything the rail tank should have to charge before every shot similar to the bolt pistol! The rail tank is the most unbalanced weapon in the vehicle world! Its sp requirements should also be switched with missiles. How can you justify 1.7 tanks?
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1219	Posted - 2014.04.07 22:06:00 - [17] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: At least the O.P. is pitching. Without knowing what the Devs are think I'm not sure if it's even worth talking about. We tried this last year and in the end they only responded to the Nerf Brigade. this is assuming they are thinking. Crush them
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 1992	Posted - 2014.04.08 00:48:00 - [18] - Quote Scheherazade VII wrote: a tanker calling for an av nerf!?!? the reign of tanker terror is finally over! HTFU adapt or die welcome to new eden or my favourite: "tanks are in a good place now". you don't know how to read go back to school I mentioned nothing about nerfing AV Read before you comment. Dumbass I'm a carried scrub!
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2654	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:05:00 - [19] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: this is sad....... #1. No Maybe No Side note, Do you want redline rails back? Even shorter tank engagements?! The railgun range is finally somewhere that it can't be abused! If anything the rail tank should have to charge before every shot similar to the bolt pistol! The rail tank is the most unbalanced weapon in the vehicle world! Its sp requirements should also be switched with missiles. How can you justify 1.7 tanks? Tank engagements were longer three weeks ago. Tank v tank was pretty balanced, generally speaking. Missiles were a bit UP, but otherwise we were fine. I don't like the rail nerf, it was clunky and awkward, and doesn't fix the problem - redline snipers just have to content themselves with a smaller area of dominance now. The hardener nerf was brutal, and it seems, ironically, to be making DSes harder to kill than before; previously I could hit you (while forge gunning) while your hardeners were down. Now, I have to use massive alpha to swat you out of the sky before you flee. AV is in a pretty good place right now, and any balances to TvT need to include a proportionate change to AV (which implies small changes so that LAV and DSes don't get insta'd by a single shot once again), though it does irritate me that it is impossible for my Gunnlogi to achieve the passive tank a Madrugar can, while ring able to achieve active tanks that are barely comparable. With the hardener nerf, rails and blasters need a small nerf, as well as damage mods and armour reppers. My forge is pretty much ok, and I've been getting wrecked by swarms (not soloed, but they hurt) over the last couple of weeks. AV grenades are now supplementary (and extremely useful) and REs and proxes are seeing a lot more use than they once did. I think if CCP are careful we might actually see a balanced vehicle game. ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:32:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. the railgun is what's breaking everything, for ****'s sake. Literally any moron can pick it up and kill a tank in 2-3 shots with a militia rail, with almost no costs to themselves.

Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 1994	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:51:00 - [21] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: this is sad....... #1. No Maybe No Side note, Do you want redline rails back? Even shorter tank engagements?! The railgun range is finally somewhere that it can't be abused! If anything the rail tank should have to charge before every shot similar to the bolt pistol! The rail tank is the most unbalanced weapon in the vehicle world! Its sp requirements should also be switched with missiles. How can you justify 1.7 tanks? You still mad I shot you down with triple damage mods on a particle cannon? 300m allows for you to tank 1 shot and then bam flight ceiling or just 50m more to get out of range so you want to even further this and make it impossible unless your an inept pilot to get shot down? The fall off makes it require both skill for the pilot who is no longer out of sight in a moment and requires a whole lot of dumb luck and skill by the rail everything has to have it's hard counters you seem to want none at all to even remotely be a counter come up with some thing reasonable before I consider your opinion. I'm a carried scrub!
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2310	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:11:00 - [22] - Quote Atiim wrote: TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. just the way i like it :) much more tactical, now. It isn't I HAVE 3 HARDENERS WIN BUTTON Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 413	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:58:00 - [23] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Atiim wrote: TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. just the way i like it :) much more tactical, now. It isn't I HAVE 3 HARDENERS WIN BUTTON No, it's "I have a militia railgun WIN BUTTON" now. Also it's "I can hold R1 on a target WIN BUTTON" as well. Tanking V. tank in this game literally has less depth than CoD WaW tanking. That's saying something.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1544	Posted - 2014.04.08 23:43:00 - [24] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Atiim wrote: TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. just the way i like it :) much more tactical, now. It isn't I HAVE 3 HARDENERS WIN BUTTON No, because fits barely even matter now. If I fit for defense, I should have strong defense. Not "Oh you need to shoot me one more time with your damage modded particle cannon to kill me." Oh yay, I can live for an extra second, which is absolutely worthless. It's seriously get the first shot and win. Any effort to create a viable fit is now meaningless. Now it's just damage modded railgun and shoot first to win. CCP f***ed up tanks real bad this time, and I thought Uprising 1.0-1.6 was awful. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32 Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6473	Posted - 2014.04.08 23:49:00 - [25] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: If anything the rail tank should have to charge before every shot similar to the bolt pistol! The rail tank is the most No. Considering how a properly tanked Assault Dropship can survive a hit with an 80GJ Railgun, doing so would remove any realistic chance a Railgun user has at countering one; especially when you consider how 80GJ Railguns have a limited elevation, allowing Assault Dropships to kill them without getting a chance to fight back. Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3285	Posted - 2014.04.09 12:48:00 - [26] - Quote Its so low because hardeners are generally useless now Its more put on as much tank as possible with a railgun and at least 2 dmg mods and whoever spots who 1st generally dies unless your railgun fucks up 1st then you die We have less skills, less mods, less vehicles, less slots, less variety, less playstyles Part 1: Engineering & Capacitors Part 2: Armor & Shield Part 3: Modules & Skills Part 4: Vehicles Part 5: Overview We need to go back to square 1 again because CCP current 2nd overhaul of vehicles is worse than the 1st version
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1390	Posted - 2014.04.09 12:52:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. Not gonna Complain... Almost a Free tank with Damage mods and Rail Turrets LOL Oh the Tears...
Lucifalic Nos Nothi 402	Posted - 2014.04.09 13:09:00 - [28] - Quote Tanks were just too fast. That was the biggest problem. Hav engages warp drive and blows by the lav to hide and recovers in 2 seconds. Returns and repeats. Slowing their speed was the proper nerf I feel. That and maybe make swarms slightly better then garbage 1.7 tanks were ridiculous though, no one can really deny that Here since Closed beta. Scout for life.
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 31	Posted - 2014.04.09 14:54:00 - [29] - Quote You all remember that CCP still has yet to launch over 60% of the vehicules right? Including racial heavy vehicles for Amarr and MInmatar? Also medium vehicules. CCP is doing its best with the few tools they have for the moment. I am not saying stop QQ. Dont stop criticizing. But when giving your feedback, rememeber we still dont have the entire part of the map. Railguns and Blasters and Missiles will not be the only turrents in the game. I believe that TvT combat is fine and if you tweek it more, it will affect the Infantry vs Tank, that is good so far. Amarr Victor
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2896	Posted - 2014.04.09 14:57:00 - [30] - Quote Because when trying to fix the V/AV balance they did not consider the V/V balance. Therefore when they nerfed the Hardeners, they did not think to apply a corresponding nerf to the Damage Mods. Nerf the Damage Mods already! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2896	Posted - 2014.04.09 15:07:00 - [31] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: At least the O.P. is pitching. Without knowing what the Devs are think I'm not sure if it's even worth talking about. We tried this last year and in the end they only responded to the Nerf Brigade. Well before it was just a shot in the dark because they cater to infantry which makes up the core of the game which is totally reasonable from a business perspective but now there actually going through a series of hot fixes and these small changes only touching a couple statistics might actually happen so I'm trying to be optimistic but I know CCP by now. Buffing AV involves changes to many many balance equations. Nerffing Damage mods only effects Vehicle vs Vehicle balance. Simple is better. Less likely for something to get overlooked or missed and screw everything up. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2896	Posted - 2014.04.09 15:27:00 - [32] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Atiim wrote: TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. the railgun is what's breaking everything, for ****'s sake. Literally any moron can pick it up and kill a tank in 2-3 shots with a militia rail, with almost no costs to themselves. Enough of my Tanks get hacked while I am out hacking objectives that I can say for certain that: No, not just any moron can pick up a militia rail tank and kill another tank. They actually have to have some tanking experience to do it. So far only once has the person who hacked my tank been able to kill me when I came back with the exact same fit to take them out. I assume that he had tanking experience. Most redberries who hack tanks are sitting ducks to any experienced tanker. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1990	Posted - 2014.04.09 16:13:00 - [33] - Quote Atiim wrote: TvT is officially COD Style. With one clip you can kill about 3-4 HAVs without blinking, and Rail vs. Rail comes down to who fires first. Did you have to go to the emergency room to have your arm sown back on for how far you twisted it back to try to make that point? Any similarities between tanks and Call of Duty are null and void, because CoD doesn't have vehicles. The two cannot be compared. Infantry just wants this to be another CoD clone, because their ARs can't destroy them. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim


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