DUST Search - The Definitive fix for Frame balance

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

The Definitive fix for Frame balance

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 169	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:21:00 - [1] - Quote Thanks for stopping by and reading my post. The following idea will address many, if not all, the problems with frame balance in DUST 514. Many of the current balance issues between the frames can be traced down to a single root cause: *Uniform bonuses and penalties.* This is a carry over from EVE. However EVE balances this out by having small, medium, large, extra-large, and capital sized variations of modules. Frigates & Destroyers = Small (and some Medium) Cruisers and Battlecruisers = Medium (and some Large) Battleships = Large (and some X-Large) Etc. etc. The system is broken in DUST because it does not take into account the different frame sizes. Why is a light frame a light frame? Because it has stripped away increased protection (and the reinforcing structure necessary to accommodate that increased protection) in order to favor speed, agility and electronics. Yes, you can add protection back to a light frame, but because it lacks the necessary frame to carry that protection, it is going to come at an increased cost to speed, mobility, agility and EWAR. Why is a heavy frame a heavy frame? Because it has additional reinforcing structures to accommodate increased protection, at the cost of speed, agility, and electronics. Can you add speed and ewar modules to a heavy frame? Yes, but the total benefit will be less because the frame isn't meant to handle it. So, the way to fix the problem is to add frame specific modules for everything, OR to adjust bonuses and penalties so that they are attached to the specific frame, not the module. And do this with an eye towards frame role. e .g. Light suits are stripped of protection so to allow their servos, and frames to move faster, be more agile, handle falls from increased height, have reduced scan signatures and increased stealth. If you add mass or bulk to this system (plates and extenders) then the consequence is significantly decreased speed, agility, mobility, and stealth and increased scan signature (change the cloak to have no blue shimmer on the base frame, but shimmer more with increased plates and extenders. Seriously, look up the description of light frames to understand why slapping on armor plates or adding bulky extender units would mess with the ability of the suit to cloak.) In the first system there would be three versions of every module, and you can either force frames to use only modules designed for their frame, or you can create huge penalties for going up a level. (The numbers are just made up examples) Light Plate: 40/60/80 HP -- 2%/3%/4% speed penalty 1%/2%/3% increase to scan profile Medium Plate: 60/80/100 HP -- 2%/3%/4% speed penalty 1%/2%/3% increase to scan profile Heavy Plate: 80/100/120 HP -- 2%/3%/4% speed penalty 1%/2%/3% increase to scan profile Light Extender 25/40/55 HP -- 2%/3%/4% scan profile increase 1%/2%/3% speed penalty Medium Extender 35/55/70 HP-- 2%/3%/4% scan profile increase 1%/2%/3% speed penalty Large Extender 55/70/85 HP -- 2%/3%/4% scan profile increase 1%/2%/3% speed penalty The second system keeps all modules the same, but changes the penalties associated with them depending on frame Armor module on Light Frame 8%/10%/12% speed penalty for armor modules 4%/5%/6% increase to scan profile Armor module on Medium Frame 4%/5%/6% speed penalty for armor modules 2%/3%/4% increase to scan profile Armor module on Heavy Frame 2%/3%/4$ speed penalty for armor modules 1%/2%/3% increase to scan profile So, imagine now how this would change the role of suits. --Light frames could still brick tank, but they would actually be slower than medium frames and have a large scan profile and increased shimmer while under cloak. This is the balancing factor. --Medium suits would be the jack of all trades; a balance between the protection of the heavy, and the speed and agility of the light, giving the medium suit the ability to go in any direction with the least amount of penalties. Damage modules would be geared towards the medium frame, with decreased benefits to the light and heavy frames. --Heavy frames would be the heaviest tanked of all suits, but would experience little to no benefit from ewar modules, speed/stamina modules, and damage modules. This is the balancing factor. I believe this is an elegant solution to many of the current problems experienced in DUST. Frames should generally define the benefits and penalties the suit experiences, while suit specialization adds utility to the base roll defined by the frame.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 551	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:16:00 - [2] - Quote If you wanted "Modules" to be like you said there's easier way. For the first solution : Bring Armor Plates a "%" of your Base ehp with big Speed Penality (Like before, 3/5/10%) Let scan profile and scan radius, they have nothing to deal with it. Would be better. In fact we already have diffrent plates for each. Each plates just need to have same PG/CPu cost. Ferroscales : Light Reative : Gallente Armor plate Medium especially Amarr. Anyway i love your idea of differant penalities for each frames. But my idea of Armor plates depending of "Base ehp" would be easier.
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 172	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:45:00 - [3] - Quote A percentage of Base ehp would work too, at least for the protection modules. However, I feel it would be more of a bandaid rather than a fix for the underlying problems with the frames.
Vaux Karn The Mercenary Collective 59	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:16:00 - [4] - Quote I actually think changing armor plates and shield extenders to a percentage value would be the best fix...not only would it make heavies heavy, lights light, etc., it would also reinforce the racial strengths and weaknesses. So Caldari would make better use of shields, Gallente would make better use of armor, and so on. Also the frame size skills should get passives as well, but the passives should be attached to the suits not the skill. This would be more like Eve and allow more variants of suits without requiring entirely new skills. For example: Amarr basic heavy frame suit 1 gets passive bonus of 2% fanaticism per skill level, basic heavy frame suit 2 gets 2% bonus love of slavery, then Amarr sentinel suits get bonuses for heavy frame skill and sentinel skill. (The previously mentioned bonuses are negotiable...) Adding this skill change would further diversify the frame sizes and roles, and at the same time make the basic frames not a waste of SP.
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 1151	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:47:00 - [5] - Quote An interesting idea. I like. Instead, I would simy have the light frames take harsher penalties for equipping health modules (light frames with plates have 3%/7%/10% reduced speed, medium have 2%/3%/5%, heavies have 1%/2%/3%) in order to force light frames to forgo stacking health, as it will strip them of their advantage quicker. And your logic makes sense. A light suit is built for speed and stealth, not carrying burdensome weight. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 172	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:40:00 - [6] - Quote Vaux Karn wrote: I actually think changing armor plates and shield extenders to a percentage value would be the best fix...not only would it make heavies heavy, lights light, etc., it would also reinforce the racial strengths and weaknesses. So Caldari would make better use of shields, Gallente would make better use of armor, and so on. Also the frame size skills should get passives as well, but the passives should be attached to the suits not the skill. This would be more like Eve and allow more variants of suits without requiring entirely new skills. For example: Amarr basic heavy frame suit 1 gets passive bonus of 2% fanaticism per skill level, basic heavy frame suit 2 gets 2% bonus love of slavery, then Amarr sentinel suits get bonuses for heavy frame skill and sentinel skill. (The previously mentioned bonuses are negotiable...) Adding this skill change would further diversify the frame sizes and roles, and at the same time make the basic frames not a waste of SP. The more I thought about it, the more I came to the same conclusions. A percentage based system would work really well at reinforcing strengths, but not preventing diversity.


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.