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Precision Enhancers do NOT help logis see scouts

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zzZaXxx The Phoenix Federation 294	Posted - 2014.04.06 07:34:00 - [1] - Quote Be warned... 1 precision enhancer won't even let you see a scout with its base stats. 2 of them (well you're dead now anyway) won't enable you to see a damped, cloaked, or Gallente scout well there goes 700,000+ SP down the drain.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1317	Posted - 2014.04.06 07:41:00 - [2] - Quote Not down the drain. It's still helpful for your passive scan against med suit that have dampening skills. Though next time, do a little research before you invest so much SP. Here's a scanning table for you: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 Me in my ADS: 1,2
HYENAKILLER X WILL FIGHT ANYONE 709	Posted - 2014.04.06 07:43:00 - [3] - Quote Its usefull only for scouts. Im not from new eden. I dont need back up, political power or support. I, unlike you dont fear nuetral territory.
zzZaXxx The Phoenix Federation 294	Posted - 2014.04.06 07:44:00 - [4] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Not down the drain. It's still helpful for your passive scan against med suit that have dampening skills. Though next time, do a little research before you invest so much SP. Here's a scanning table for you: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 Why would I think that stacking penalties apply to scan mods? It never even occurred to me, or to the person I was doing the math with and encouraged me to go for it. If they didn't then I'd be a genius. Oh well.
zzZaXxx The Phoenix Federation 294	Posted - 2014.04.06 07:46:00 - [5] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Not down the drain. It's still helpful for your passive scan against med suit that have dampening skills. Like I said...down the drain.
zzZaXxx The Phoenix Federation 294	Posted - 2014.04.06 07:50:00 - [6] - Quote There's too much #$&% undocumented stuff like that in this game. If I'm gonna consider investing in precision enhancers TELL ME THAT THEY HAVE STACKING PENALTIES IN THE ITEM DESCRIPTION instead of making me waste SP on it, not to mention all the clones I've dropped with my worthless 2 CPE fits. Instead I have to find out after 2 weeks of suffering and 700,000+ wasted SP. WHY do I put myself through this? I keep trying and they keep doing stupid sht that makes me feel like I'm spinning my wheels!!!
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 425	Posted - 2014.04.06 08:07:00 - [7] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: There's too much #$&% undocumented stuff like that in this game. If I'm gonna consider investing in precision enhancers TELL ME THAT THEY HAVE STACKING PENALTIES IN THE ITEM DESCRIPTION instead of making me waste SP on it, not to mention all the clones I've dropped with my worthless 2 CPE fits. Instead I have to find out after 2 weeks of suffering and 700,000+ wasted SP. WHY do I put myself through this? I keep trying and they keep doing stupid sht that makes me feel like I'm spinning my wheels!!! Anything percentile has a stacking penalty. You are now informed.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 1090	Posted - 2014.04.06 08:13:00 - [8] - Quote That's cus you need a minimum of 3 to see a cloaked scout with no dampening 4 with max passive dampening No hope in hell if they have added dampeners Edit: Not to mention about 3 complex range enhancers to pick them up at a decent range "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2111	Posted - 2014.04.06 08:15:00 - [9] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: That's cus you need a minimum of 3 to see a cloaked scout with no dampening 4 with max passive dampening No hope in hell if they have added dampeners Its good that the gal logi has 4 highs and 5 lows then. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 747	Posted - 2014.04.06 08:18:00 - [10] - Quote Min/Cal logis with 4x CPEs (22.37db) will scan any non-double damped uncloaked scout, and let's not forget about dampened mediums. Gal logis have active scanners. To say Precision enchancers do not help is false. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4951	Posted - 2014.04.06 08:40:00 - [11] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Not down the drain. It's still helpful for your passive scan against med suit that have dampening skills. Like I said...down the drain. You're right! Nobody dampens their Medium suits. Except that squad of 4 guys I met with dampened and cloaked Logis earlier tonight. And that cloaked Assault who Shotgunned me today because I considered a cloaked Assault a less important target than the Logi who had just revived him. And the several cloaked Logis I've seen, some of whom stack dampening as well as the cloak. Those are the ones I saw in the half-dozen or so battles I've played since I woke up this afternoon.
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 944	Posted - 2014.04.06 08:49:00 - [12] - Quote Stacking penalty or no stacking penalty, how could you have ever thought that precision enhancers would be worthwhile on a logi? To detect a cloaked scout youd have to stack so many (plus range amplifiers - what use is precision without range?) that youd end up with a lower hp, lower speed, higher profile caldari scout.
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 686	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:00:00 - [13] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Stacking penalty or no stacking penalty, how could you have ever thought that precision enhancers would be worthwhile on a logi? To detect a cloaked scout youd have to stack so many (plus range amplifiers - what use is precision without range?) that youd end up with a lower hp, lower speed, higher profile caldari scout. I think that is the point of the thread. The OP took the next best suit class for scanning, and saw that it was pointless to fit precision enhancers on it. See here is the thing. CCP, in a trailer, likes to advertise that you can use suits outside of their intended roles. This is certainly true for a number of things, like sentinel snipers, and brick tanker scouts, you can not use any other suit to passively scan with any type of efficiency. See while the HP gap is EASY to close due to the immense, non stacking penalized bonuses they offer the other modules that have stacking penalties just can not compete on non-specialized suits. The way I see it is: tweak the Ewar numbers of all of the suits so that all of the suits can somewhat compete or apply stacking penalties to HP mods so that suits can not hit to far above their class. Fixing swarms
Haerr Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 409	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:12:00 - [14] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: There's too much #$&*% undocumented stuff like that in this game. If I'm gonna consider investing in precision enhancers TELL ME THAT THEY HAVE STACKING PENALTIES IN THE ITEM DESCRIPTION ^This. +1 There has been confirmation of sorts though, all scanning mods have stackingpenalty set to true in the SDE. Before they released the SDE all we had to go on was running tests in-game. Then again I hardly think it is fair to expect anyone to be suspicious of in-game description of items let alone checking out the SDE in some "dark_underground"-part of the forum. There are to many undocumeted things in this game. Scanning Table for 1.8: LINK
zzZaXxx The Phoenix Federation 295	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:24:00 - [15] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: That's cus you need a minimum of 3 to see a cloaked scout with no dampening 4 with max passive dampening No hope in hell if they have added dampeners Edit: Not to mention about 3 complex range enhancers to pick them up at a decent range Your 3rd enhancer is working at 57% effectiveness. Oh, and your dead.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12055	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:25:00 - [16] - Quote Consider calculating the effect before speccing into something all the way if this is a risk. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Katya Thurn Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:26:00 - [17] - Quote I think most items in EVE Online that incur a stacking penalty have item descriptions that state if another module/rig is fitted with similar effects then a penalty is incurred. It is really slap-happy on CCP's part not to have written this where applicable on all item descriptions in DUST 514 too. On a side note I also think CCP should have in-game fitting tool & killboards for both games but that's for another OP really.
zzZaXxx The Phoenix Federation 296	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:30:00 - [18] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Stacking penalty or no stacking penalty, how could you have ever thought that precision enhancers would be worthwhile on a logi? To detect a cloaked scout youd have to stack so many (plus range amplifiers - what use is precision without range?) that youd end up with a lower hp, lower speed, higher profile caldari scout. Without stacking penalty 2 CPEs pick up a cloaked non-Gallente scout. 21m scan radius is fine.
zzZaXxx The Phoenix Federation 296	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:44:00 - [19] - Quote They should at least remove stacking penalties from Precision Enhancers so that if logis want to sacrifice hp for precision and make their suit a scout detector, they can do so. That's a valid support role and you'd have to sacrifice tank to be able to do it. I guess they'd say "that's why you need to have a Caldari scout in your squad". If that's the case the "role" thing has gone too far. Each class should be able use mods to be more like the class on either end: thus the pure logi, assault logi (less equipment, more tank, better gun), and scout logi (less tank, better scan stats, maybe cloak). The assault logi isn't as viable as before, though sometimes circumstances might merit going that route, but the scout logi would be very useful. Though still not as good in that role as the scout, it would at least be able to detect them with the right modules. Right now passive detection is an impossibility. 3 CPEs is a failfit.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4953	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:47:00 - [20] - Quote Lower Logi base scan precision from 45 to 40. How big a difference would that make to a Logi's passive scanner viability?

zzZaXxx The Phoenix Federation 302	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:03:00 - [21] - Quote Or just lower logistics' precision so that two CPEs will enable them to detect non-Gallente cloaked scouts. Simple fix: Lower logis' precision to 40 and profile to 45 2 CPEs would then increase precision to 23.8....a cloaked scout is at 23.6 with profile skill maxed so maybe even that wouldn't do it.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2857	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:04:00 - [22] - Quote So many people have told me to use precision enhancers instead of shields to see scouts. Now I know that they were all bullshitting me. Links: 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! I make logistics videos!
The Headless Horseman Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 160	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:08:00 - [23] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Be warned... 1 precision enhancer won't even let you see a scout with its base stats. 2 of them (well you're dead now anyway) won't enable you to see a damped, cloaked, or Gallente scout well there goes 700,000+ SP down the drain. Facepalm......... don't send a boy(scout) to do a mans job (logi) Logi's rule, scouts drool Signed, Sealed, Delivered
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3401	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:15:00 - [24] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Be warned... 1 precision enhancer won't even let you see a scout with its base stats. 2 of them (well you're dead now anyway) won't enable you to see a damped, cloaked, or Gallente scout well there goes 700,000+ SP down the drain. Good. You're a wetnurse in combat armor, not a hunter killer. Know your role.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 182	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:29:00 - [25] - Quote The thing is that you will never any more have the chance to have a swiss knife logi like before. Now that suit roles have been established you can divert or customize certain suit/roles to an extent. I am very happy with this direction since logi everything was a farce before. Now you want to be logi, be one, let the radars be radars, let the tankers be opporunity makers. In any cases each suit has strong points that can and should be enhanced with modules specialized with those fits. It is more than ever true that you should equip what catalyzes you role in the team. Here you just learn what was pretty obvious that your using specialized scout equipment on a suit which is not meant to be maximized with this equipment. It does not mean though its useless in normal operation, just that you will not catch suits that are hyper specialized in their roles and that is the edge proto modules in speialized suit gives you.
The Attorney General 2529	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:44:00 - [26] - Quote I'm surprised more people haven't tried to run a completely ewar logi gk.0. It gets pretty funny. 3 Complex enhancers 4 complex range amps Complex armor repairer 4x Duvolle focused Core locus Six Kin Combat rifle. Just stay away from the enemies and guide the troops in with high quality scans out to 65m. Put that guy in a closet near a flag in a game of DOM and just farm the point. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2169	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:44:00 - [27] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Not down the drain. It's still helpful for your passive scan against med suit that have dampening skills. Though next time, do a little research before you invest so much SP. Here's a scanning table for you: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 Why would I think that stacking penalties apply to scan mods? It never even occurred to me, or to the person I was doing the math with and encouraged me to go for it. If they didn't then I'd be a genius. Oh well. Stacking penalty applies to any percentage based modules. This isn't that hard people.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4554	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:53:00 - [28] - Quote 3 complex enhancers on a gal logi will let you catch an undamped/uncloaked scout (scan precision of 23). You'll have a passive scan better than a proto scanner. Add 2 complex ranges and you're at 45m base scan range. To say that they're useless or a waste is an exaggeration. I would run them as a buffer zone along with your regular scanners. Don't be drama queens people. Dust is one of the only games were EVERYONE is so dependent on the tacnet its absurd. People don't shoot at people. People just shoot at chevrons. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
noob cavman Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 1134	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:11:00 - [29] - Quote They didn't complain when we were their scan error I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick. dem spandex yo
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 204	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:21:00 - [30] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Be warned... 1 precision enhancer won't even let you see a scout with its base stats. 2 of them (well you're dead now anyway) won't enable you to see a damped, cloaked, or Gallente scout well there goes 700,000+ SP down the drain. You should be countering scouts with scouts who have bonuses to these abilities - your smart!

Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 731	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:12:00 - [31] - Quote Katya Thurn wrote: I think most items in EVE Online that incur a stacking penalty have item descriptions that state if another module/rig is fitted with similar effects then a penalty is incurred. It is really slap-happy on CCP's part not to have written this where applicable on all item descriptions in DUST 514 too. On a side note I also think CCP should have in-game fitting tool & killboards for both games but that's for another OP really. This is correct. PDS's in EVE are not stacking penalized, for example. Another poster earlier said that anything in DUST that gives a percentage bonus is stacking penalized. This isn't entirely accurate and certainly doesn't reflect any precedent set by EVE. DUST in game documentation says that anything that says it's stacking penalized in the description is stacking penalized (and therefore anything that doesn't say it's stacking penalized isn't.) If this is the case that stacking penalties on precision enhancers and other modules aren't correctly documented in game, it's just another example of DUST devs letting small things slip under the radar. How simple would it be to go through every module in the game and for the ones that are effected by stacking penalties add a "Disclaimer: Other modules that effect the same stat will be stacking penalized" (or whatever the exact wording is.) When you don't see that note in the description, you know it's not stacking penalized. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 731	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:14:00 - [32] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Stacking penalty applies to any percentage based modules. This isn't that hard people. This is potentially inaccurate, certainly not based on any precedent set by EVE, and contrary to the in game documentation. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
ReGnYuM Dirt Nap Squad. 2689	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:17:00 - [33] - Quote Scanning IMO needs to be completely torn down and rebuilt from the ground up. The Pathway to Hell is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 90.31% Complete
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 332	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:37:00 - [34] - Quote Haerr wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: There's too much #$&% undocumented stuff like that in this game. If I'm gonna consider investing in precision enhancers TELL ME THAT THEY HAVE STACKING PENALTIES IN THE ITEM DESCRIPTION ^This. +1 There has been confirmation of sorts though, all scanning mods have stackingpenalty set to true in the SDE. Before they released the SDE all we had to go on was running tests in-game. Then again I hardly think it is fair to expect anyone to be suspicious of in-game description of items let alone checking out the SDE in some "dark_underground"-part of the forum. There are to many undocumeted things in this game. Yup Anything you have to purchase and fit you should be able to see the resulting value somewhere on the fitting screen or an auxiliary screen. So most stuff is displayed on your setup on the fitting screen but when you highlight your weapon, you should see the damage (armor and shield) its set to output given your proficiency level and any mods you equipped. Select your arm for example and you could see your hacking speed vs objectives / installations / vehicles "Shine bright like a diamond"*
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Dirt Nap Squad. 1456	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:37:00 - [35] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Be warned... 1 precision enhancer won't even let you see a scout with its base stats. 2 of them (well you're dead now anyway) won't enable you to see a damped, cloaked, or Gallente scout well there goes 700,000+ SP down the drain. if you're going to make a post, add some math so it seems like you know what you're talking about. eatsbabies cienfuegos steward of the renegade alliance.
echo47 Minmatar Republic 262	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:08:00 - [36] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: You should be countering scouts with scouts who have bonuses to these abilities - your smart! really? I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.


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