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Orin the Freak
The Solecism of Limitation
773
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Posted - 2014.04.05 12:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
The SG is much too powerful for it's own good. particularly at militia and basic level, but the advanced, and even proto do so much alpha it's game breakingly good.
The fact that you can alpha almost any proto medium suit off the field with two or less shots at militia level is ridiculous. Heavies are different. you should probably have at least an advanced shotty to kill a proto heavy in a few shots.
I don't want shotguns nerfed into uselessness. but I just don't see how to balance it in this game, especially since ISK grows on trees for half the people who play this game regularly. Maybe decrease the projectile count, as my friend Laz suggested? the biggest issue is risk vs. reward. You can run shotgun cloak for nearly free, and kill any suit in the game 1v1. Even if you lose, you are still coming out ahead, as you've undoubtedly dealt crippling damage, and the guy lost his suit anyway.
If you're not rich, why risk running you best suits when they can be taken by some guy using militia/basic gear? Very low risk (ISK wise), Super high reward potential, vs. Very high risk, Very high reward potential with proto any other suit/weapon combo. You don't have to take a risk to run scout anymore. THAT is what bothers me. You can tank a cloaky scout to have over 600 EHP, granted that ups the ISK efficiency risk, but it also makes you even MORE powerful, which is like putting wheels on an aircraft carrier.
Truthfully, the shotgun probably only needs a slight tweak or two to get it into balance with other weapons DPS range. I'd say, if it were at all possible, Drop the damage dramatically.. (like within the range of AR's DPS), but give it a sort of webbifying effect, where each hit slows the target. Gallente are E-War, just as caldari... or maybe even moreso. So it would make sense that their weapons might have some crazy e-war effects. that way you wouldn't have the crazy alpha, but you'd be able to land more shots, with slightly more risks, but not easy mode.
The cloak needs to be urgently fixed first though IMO.
Some ideas my friends and I've had are:
- make the cloak drop your shields upon activation, and halt regen until cloak is disengaged.*
- upon deactivation (by any means) the cloak is to fully drain, and start it's charge up timer from 0. (just like all other active modules in the game)
- user must *fully* decloak before discharging any weaponry/activating any grenades.
- Flux grenades should absolutely deplete the charge on a cloak, and decloak the user.
- (optional) Damage must drain cloak relative to the damage dealt.
*following Star Trek cloaking physics, which don't really apply to EVE, but the cloaks in DUST are clearly different. This would also make a cloak on anything but a scout (With their ridiculous shield recharge) more harmful than beneficial.
I'm not saying all these things should take place, but if they did (to varying degrees) cloaks would probably be almost completely balanced (imo), and, coupled with some kind of shotgun changes, could be an excellently balanced E-War match made in heaven.
As a quick aside, to address the cloaky tanked scout, Armor modules should increase your scan profile exponentially (relatively low at basic, but rather dramatic at complex), thus making them extremely debilitating to all but the most diehard of the brick tankers. 1 complex armor module should almost half the effectiveness of your cloak. 2 and your cloak does nothing but make you look pretty. (Credit to Laz ulian sol for the basis of this idea)
Please, be constructive with your comments. I'm open to suggestions/corrections. |
C Saunders
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
771
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Posted - 2014.04.05 14:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lolwut.
Cloak drop shields?
My mim scout has 87 armour!
87 Armour!!!
// Fully Specced Mass Driver Expert // Proto Min Scout // Closed Beta Vet // Tech Guard Director //
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Voidghoul
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.05 14:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
I could understand half regen. speed for shields (since the cloak runs on suit energy) but I think making shield get depleted to 0 upon usage isn't fair. Perhaps you can wipe half regeneration of shield and depletion of shields and instead make it so that the cloak consumes your shield at a rate. This rate could increase (or decrease) as you get higher tier cloaks.
Comments?
- -V
"People are very open-minded about new things - as long as they're exactly like the old ones."
-Charles Kettering.
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Orin the Freak
The Solecism of Limitation
773
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Posted - 2014.04.05 15:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Voidghoul wrote:I could understand half regen. speed for shields (since the cloak runs on suit energy) but I think making shield get depleted to 0 upon usage isn't fair. Perhaps you can wipe half regeneration of shield and depletion of shields and instead make it so that the cloak consumes your shield at a rate. This rate could increase (or decrease) as you get higher tier cloaks.
Comments?
- -V
Indeed the shields dropping thing was just kinda an offhanded optional suggestion. The other points were more pertinent. :) Earlier in the beta, a popular suggestion was to have the cloak run on shield energy. but the biggest drawback of that was the regen of scout shields. you'd decloak, and almost instantly be able to recloak again. Which seemed OP even then :P
Note, i said HALT regeneration. in other words, prevent regeneration. I'll edit the post to be more clear :) |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
458
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Posted - 2014.04.05 18:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
shotguns were super upbefore 1.8 and still are crap when used without a cloak, the cloak just makes it worthwile using it now, quit crying about it there is noting wrong with either cloak or shotgun. i persoally cant stand using the shotgun because i cannot rely on it to hit what i put the reticule on and i decided this before cloaks were implemented and i probly still wont try the shotgun/cloak combo because i belive shotguns are crap. if you are having problems with shotgun/cloak users try using your eyes and not relying on you radar to find them for you, |
Orin the Freak
The Solecism of Limitation
775
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Posted - 2014.04.06 00:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:shotguns were super upbefore 1.8 and still are crap when used without a cloak, the cloak just makes it worthwile using it now, quit crying about it there is noting wrong with either cloak or shotgun. i persoally cant stand using the shotgun because i cannot rely on it to hit what i put the reticule on and i decided this before cloaks were implemented and i probly still wont try the shotgun/cloak combo because i belive shotguns are crap. if you are having problems with shotgun/cloak users try using your eyes and not relying on you radar to find them for you,
I don't have a problem with fighting against them. you misunderstand my desire for balance as a malicious cry for "nerf this cause it kills me". I have a problem with myself being able to raise my KDR artificially by simply throwing on a basic cloak and militia shotgun on a militia light frame, and being able to kill all but the most experienced of players with relative ease compared to any of my other suits, of which i've poured millions of skill points into.
this isn't me "crying" for nerfs. It's adults discussing balance. |
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