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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
716
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Posted - 2014.04.04 08:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Someone once posted "getting Nyain/FOTM chasers to move suits is like herding cats".
Well, CCP has successfully done so,to scouts/heavies.
We all should agree that scouts and heavies should be semi-rare.
After all there are only 5 points in skirmish max currently.
And scouts should take skill to use,unlike they do currently.
Mediums should be the most common (including assault and logis).
But how does CCP herd this group of cats to assaults for attacking (offensive bonuses) and logis for supporting (defensive bonuses).
Taking slots/nerfing one to make the other more appealing isn't a valid answer in this thread.
As proven by scouts,nothing was nerfed below them,they were buffed up to other suits standards.
This is a buffs only response thread,suggest buffs to your particular choice of medium frame.
Nerfs are not accepted in any form.
Remember CCP is still looking at mediums so your suggestion might be make or break for your particular choice.
And "anything faster than the logi" is a bad suggestion.
We need things to make each suit unique not necessarily dominant,it must have a counter to prevent it from being OP.
I'll start:
-Damage resistance while repping,reviving for logis
-or-
-Reps while repping,and damage resistance while reviving for logis
INB4 assaults wanting the best of everything and wanting logis to be helpless civilians in an active battlefield.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
716
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Posted - 2014.04.04 08:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Bamm Havoc mentioned something in his video that he quoted from Pyrex. It's the attitude to win at any cost. If a tactic is available for anybody to use to gain advantage, it will be used.
We cannot change that. The only way we really can is by beating them at their own game, then maybe they will herd to something else.
That isn't true in the slightest,most FOTM users migrated not because they were "beaten" but because it was easier to win with the new buffs scouts got.
So 2+2 = give mediums bonuses that will bring victory faster and they will move to them.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
716
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Posted - 2014.04.04 08:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Meee One wrote:
That isn't true in the slightest,most FOTM users migrated not because they were "beaten" but because it was easier to win with the new buffs scouts got.
You just said the same thing as, It's the attitude to win at any cost. If a tactic is available for anybody to use to gain advantage, it will be used.Where does it mention "beaten" anywhere in that?
Michael Arck wrote:The only way we really can is by beating them at their own game, then maybe they will herd to something else.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
717
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:For the record, saying nerfs are never ok is kinda silly. But anyway, here's my suggestion for the medium suits. Note that it does in fact involve taking one module slot away from Logis, but increasing their base HP.
I said NO nerfs.
Your suggestion nerfs logis and buffs assaults which is counter productive.
And blowing me off by calling what i say "silly" proves you're an immature twit that refuses any answers but your own.
Case in point,how often you repost that shatty thread as if it's a good idea.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
717
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:Meee One wrote:Someone once posted "getting Nyain/FOTM chasers to move suits is like herding cats".
Well, CCP has successfully done so,to scouts/heavies.
We all should agree that scouts and heavies should be semi-rare.
After all there are only 5 points in skirmish max currently.
And scouts should take skill to use,unlike they do currently.
Mediums should be the most common (including assault and logis).
But how does CCP herd this group of cats to assaults for attacking (offensive bonuses) and logis for supporting (defensive bonuses).
Taking slots/nerfing one to make the other more appealing isn't a valid answer in this thread.
As proven by scouts,nothing was nerfed below them,they were buffed up to other suits standards.
This is a buffs only response thread,suggest buffs to your particular choice of medium frame.
Nerfs are not accepted in any form.
Remember CCP is still looking at mediums so your suggestion might be make or break for your particular choice.
And "anything faster than the logi" is a bad suggestion.
We need things to make each suit unique not necessarily dominant,it must have a counter to prevent it from being OP.
I'll start:
-Damage resistance while repping,reviving for logis
-or-
-Reps while repping,and damage resistance while reviving for logis
INB4 assaults wanting the best of everything and wanting logis to be helpless civilians in an active battlefield. All of the assaults need better skill bonuses except for the amarr, which should receive an additional low slot. All of the logis need the rep tool bonus, not just the Minmatar. (I run a rep tool on my scout hue hue) Minmatar logi should then in turn receive a skill bonus to max remote explosives carried per level. I tried 
Yes,you did.
But while giving all logis a bonus to the rep tool seems fine it would leave the other eq nerfed.
And max REs would just start slayer logi QQ all over again.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
717
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
abarkrishna wrote:Logi's and assault suits should have the same slots except for equipment within their own race.
For example gallente logi and gallente assault both have the same high and low slots. The only difference being equipment.
By doing this "slayer logi's" will no longer be a thing because assaults will simply be able to kill better.
I do think having a damage reduction while healing or repping would be nice I can not say everyone would agree with it because I am a logi and therefore biased.
I had also seen a post earlier where someone suggested adding other logi type roles (healer,Support/resupply) similar to the scouts secondaries like pilot suits and stuff. I very much think that is a huge step in the right direction.
I've seen them and they are terrible suggestions.
It would tear the logistics class in two.
-True logis with less defense but more speed (Min logi)
-FOTM Slayerlogis of 1.7 with 2 equipment slots and increased durability (Better assaults)
We don't need two assaults we need more definitive objectives for each.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
717
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hansei Kaizen wrote:Meee One wrote:We all should agree that scouts and heavies should be semi-rare.
Mediums should be the most common (including assault and logis).
Why? I think they should all be equally played, like TF2. They all should complement each other, to make a team great only if all roles are played within that team. So If only 3 suits are neccessary to get the whole spectrum (sentinel/logi/scout). Why have the other ones at all? I think this question must be answered on a deeper game design level. So by what are the roles defined? My guess is: 1. damage absorbtion (eHP and repping) 2. speed 3. visibility (scan and optical) 4. utility (equipment capacity) 5. offensive potential (DPS and range) If one suit can excel in more than one of these fields, it renders the one useless that excels only in one field (the designers should go into further detail, I only want to make my point by example). So I think all suits are designed / can be fitted so that they are effective in 2 of the 5. But anything that can be fitted to excel at 3 of the 5 simultaneously is your FOTM. Like slayer logis (1+4+5), vehicles (1+2+5), scouts (2+3+5), and anything the future might bring. I know its a horrible simplification, but you catch my drift... Simpler solution: Give assaults something special to illustrate their supposed "versatility". Like 2nd and maybe 3rd grenade slot. 2nd sidearm slot (meh). 2nd light weapon slot AV-only. 2nd equipment slot (max. dont wanna outequip logis). Many possibilities.
All but the 2nd sidearm would step in another roles place.
More grenade slots - Return of spam
2nd light weapon - Commandos job
2nd equipment slot - Cal logi job
2nd sidearm - unique without being horribly OP.
Assaulting is about applying continual pressure until defenses collapse,more weapons carried means less downtime.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
717
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Posted - 2014.04.04 11:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
abarkrishna wrote:Meee One wrote:abarkrishna wrote:Logi's and assault suits should have the same slots except for equipment within their own race.
For example gallente logi and gallente assault both have the same high and low slots. The only difference being equipment.
By doing this "slayer logi's" will no longer be a thing because assaults will simply be able to kill better.
I do think having a damage reduction while healing or repping would be nice I can not say everyone would agree with it because I am a logi and therefore biased.
I had also seen a post earlier where someone suggested adding other logi type roles (healer,Support/resupply) similar to the scouts secondaries like pilot suits and stuff. I very much think that is a huge step in the right direction. I've seen them and they are terrible suggestions. It would tear the logistics class in two. -True logis with less defense but more speed (Min logi) -FOTM Slayerlogis of 1.7 with 2 equipment slots and increased durability (Better assaults) We don't need two assaults we need more definitive objectives for each. Other then that +1 That's where reworking of assault suit's role bonus' come into play. As it is the only benefit to being assault is a slight speed advantage and a sidearm. They are slightly better at killing than logi's. There needs to be a better incentive to playing assault. For example boosts to ammo capacity. Perhaps an extra slot for AV weapons for swarms/PLC( Or something that actually works) This also opens up possibilities for various assault suit secondary types.
But if you look at the precedent CCP has already set regarding "assault" variation weapons....they are only marginally better at killing.
The problem is everyone sees logi slots and assumes it's the best.
When by all base standards (stats) assaults are.
And that sidearm is worth 2 slots,so assaults are actually beating logis by 1.
Once again,if you want to have 2 light weapons there's commando.
The problem is no one wants to be "just" assault they want all benefits at once and will jump to the suit that meets their needs.
They don't even realise the assault would be more appealing if they just looked at it.
High base stats with 0 slots used,and the flexibility to tank how you want to...
While it takes 5 slots on a logi to compete for the title of killer.
It all boils down to slot envy.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
726
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Posted - 2014.04.04 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Luk Manag wrote:Give the Assault suits an extra equipment slot and the fittings to use it...my Assault Scout has a nanite injector AND nanohives, while my Assault can only fit the nanite injector AND must rely on others for ammo. (A bonus to the nanite injection would be welcome...+4% armor and shields per level on pickup.)
The problem with an extra eq slot is Cal logis only get two at standard and have to sacrifice a sidearm while scouts do not.
Plus there is already a 100% injector in the caldari loyally store.
If you're using a rep tool or injector on an assault you're doing it wrong,assault isn't about support it's about attacking.
My suggestion:
-Remove the WP farming injector
-Replace it with hives
The only class that should be focused on team mates survival is logistics,hence the bonuses.
John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
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