DUST Search - The Kain Spero Debate

Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:

NAV HIV wrote:

Wow he is getting more Heat than CUBs... Still remember all the "I hate Cubs" threads. . . Cubs you have to step up your game bro lol

- He is CPM, so far as a CPM i don't think he used the info to his advantage.

- He is a dust player on top being a CPM, so that sort of gives him the right to do whatever he wants in game. If all the other players can't beat him in game or in Meta gaming, then it's not exactly his fault. He is only doing what is best for him and his Corp and allies. Would you do it any differently if you had the chance ?!

- He did build IMPs, (Still would love to fight that IMP A team), Spero Escrow Services (Which does all the business legitly)

- He out-smarted other Dust politicians. Which was entertaining to watch. Not taking sides, but most of the dust politicians i've come across, they have failed to play their cards properly in time. I have seen so many So called leaders fail at Meta. But the ones that do, have succeeded and received multiple "Hatechu" threads lol

Other than people writing so many threads about Kain, Mavado, Cubs, Kujo, Zatara, Radar... Shouldn't people try to outsmart them and beat them or just fight them properly ?! Zerg attacks and **** don't work if you don't have the players for it... EoN made it work... It worked against EoN for the same reasons....

NAV you raise some good points and I would offer a couple as well that go along with this:

1) The only person that will ever know if Kane Spero used inside information is him unless someone comes up with 8x10 glossy photos for evidence. Having and NDA doesn't necessarily preclude you from taking action to prepare yourself for things coming down the road. To be clear, I'm not saying he's doing anything underhanded...I'm saying that no one here can make a definitive call that he's abusing CPM information or just sharp at the game....or both.

2) As for outsmarting and outfighting ...I'm with you on this with a couple caveats. The way the game is constructed right now less than a 100 players can rampage through PC and just about shut out the few thousand other players since Dust / gaming is essentially a part time job for them. That is pretty handy accomplishment and I have a healthy amount of respect for that. But it's not healthy for the game long term.

I don't want to re-distribute PC corps land / ISK. I want more places for us to fight and more to the point...make time and distance matter. If you had to move to a system to take it like you did in EVE (or more to the point move our assets to the systems via EVE) you would see smaller corps that have a great EVE connection suddenly become very competitive. If we could expand out of Molden Heath you give breathing room for people.

So, yes....I want to outfight them in the arena but it's not an option to even step up for most corps or players.


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NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1235	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:41:00 - [1] - Quote Wow he is getting more Heat than CUBs... Still remember all the "I hate Cubs" threads. . . Cubs you have to step up your game bro lol - He is CPM, so far as a CPM i don't think he used the info to his advantage. - He is a dust player on top being a CPM, so that sort of gives him the right to do whatever he wants in game. If all the other players can't beat him in game or in Meta gaming, then it's not exactly his fault. He is only doing what is best for him and his Corp and allies. Would you do it any differently if you had the chance ?! - He did build IMPs, (Still would love to fight that IMP A team), Spero Escrow Services (Which does all the business legitly) - He out-smarted other Dust politicians. Which was entertaining to watch. Not taking sides, but most of the dust politicians i've come across, they have failed to play their cards properly in time. I have seen so many So called leaders fail at Meta. But the ones that do, have succeeded and received multiple "Hatechu" threads lol Other than people writing so many threads about Kain, Mavado, Cubs, Kujo, Zatara, Radar... Shouldn't people try to outsmart them and beat them or just fight them properly ?! Zerg attacks and **** don't work if you don't have the players for it... EoN made it work... It worked against EoN for the same reasons....
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1237	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:00:00 - [2] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: The problem is not his use of power for personal gain. The problem is his use of power to deprive the majority of the playerbase access to 1 of the game modes. As CPM he is supposed to represent the community and support the development of the game. His actions have effectively locked PC and turned it into a nearly passive ISK generating machine. How is the bluing of Molden Heath supporting the community or the development of the game? How it his, cubs or kujo's or Nayans fault if the community has failed to make a counter blue donut ?!
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1238	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:21:00 - [3] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Wow he is getting more Heat than CUBs... Still remember all the "I hate Cubs" threads. . . Cubs you have to step up your game bro lol - He is CPM, so far as a CPM i don't think he used the info to his advantage. - He is a dust player on top being a CPM, so that sort of gives him the right to do whatever he wants in game. If all the other players can't beat him in game or in Meta gaming, then it's not exactly his fault. He is only doing what is best for him and his Corp and allies. Would you do it any differently if you had the chance ?! - He did build IMPs, (Still would love to fight that IMP A team), Spero Escrow Services (Which does all the business legitly) - He out-smarted other Dust politicians. Which was entertaining to watch. Not taking sides, but most of the dust politicians i've come across, they have failed to play their cards properly in time. I have seen so many So called leaders fail at Meta. But the ones that do, have succeeded and received multiple "Hatechu" threads lol Other than people writing so many threads about Kain, Mavado, Cubs, Kujo, Zatara, Radar... Shouldn't people try to outsmart them and beat them or just fight them properly ?! Zerg attacks and **** don't work if you don't have the players for it... EoN made it work... It worked against EoN for the same reasons.... NAV you raise some good points and I would offer a couple as well that go along with this: 1) The only person that will ever know if Kane Spero used inside information is him unless someone comes up with 8x10 glossy photos for evidence. Having and NDA doesn't necessarily preclude you from taking action to prepare yourself for things coming down the road. To be clear, I'm not saying he's doing anything underhanded...I'm saying that no one here can make a definitive call that he's abusing CPM information or just sharp at the game....or both. 2) As for outsmarting and outfighting ...I'm with you on this with a couple caveats. The way the game is constructed right now less than a 100 players can rampage through PC and just about shut out the few thousand other players since Dust / gaming is essentially a part time job for them. That is pretty handy accomplishment and I have a healthy amount of respect for that. But it's not healthy for the game long term. I don't want to re-distribute PC corps land / ISK. I want more places for us to fight and more to the point...make time and distance matter. If you had to move to a system to take it like you did in EVE (or more to the point move our assets to the systems via EVE) you would see smaller corps that have a great EVE connection suddenly become very competitive. If we could expand out of Molden Heath you give breathing room for people. So, yes....I want to outfight them in the arena but it's not an option to even step up for most corps or players. What you've said is very true... - Regarding CPM using inside info, if i'm not mistaken Jenza had been accused of abusing power at the beginning of PC. But it took only a week to counter everything Jenza might have achieved. Biggest Problem with PC right now is the ISK generation. CCP should remove ISK regeneration and keep it to clones only. Few things to do with those clones: 1. CCP should charge the district holders for holding more than 80 (for Cargo Hub), 100 (Production facilities) This would force District holders to Use the clones, rather than just selling it for free isk without any competition. 2. Should stop giving ISK for selling clones. Replace it with Minerals. Like mining in EvE i guess. Corp can make isk by regenerating minerals and selling it in the marketplace or use it to make weapons and such for the CORP members. But they would still have to pay fines for excess Clones Remove the ISK factor and it would become a whole new ball game. People holding 10-20 districts would be forced to use the excess clones. I'm sure no CORP would want to hold more districts than they need at that point. I'd guess 2-3 districts max per CORP.... that 8-10 mil in clone regen, if it turns into 4-5 mil in fines and taxes for excess clones than PC would change for sure...
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1238	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:31:00 - [4] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: CPM not game meta, not the game. It is RL representation for the player base. That CCP allows for popular people in big corps to be elected, knowing that they will get the most votes proves the CPM and CSM useless. It is a product from a company with a customer base. Listen to that customer base as a whole CCP. It is not hard to do. Really, can they not just design filters and data mine common requests off the forums? They have a feedback page. We don't need a "class president" to represent us. That person sure as hell shouldn't ge playing the game anymore than CCP employees except on a closed system for testing. Stop being a cry baby.... That's the problem with the community, they simply expect to have everything without even trying for it. First it was Orion (Which was decimated by Eon) Then the prolonged EoN vs Cronos War, Then EoN vs LOI lol, Then EoN vs FEC, when EoN became a larger donut... Poeple in EoN actually grabbed what they wanted by force, they lost a lot to get those... But that level of dedication is gone. Now it's like, I want this, CCP can you please hand it over to me in a platter ?!