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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1642
   |
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Between the Heavies with their splash guards and the invisible scouts, if a tank is causing you problems then you are in the wrong place, wrong role or plain bad.
We now see what CCP was balancing tanks against. You are now welcome to STFU!
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6150
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah...
If you allow yourself to be killed by REs, your a scrub.
I'm not really sure how more Sentinels on the field change the fact that vehicles are broken, in fact the proficency & damage modifiers makes Shielded HAVs even more EZ than before (I didn't think it was possible  )
I also fail to see how any of this provides even the slightest hint of evidence that CCP is balancing HAVs against Heavy Frames (even then, they'd still be broken)
[/thread]
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
727
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
So we now have two viable infantry AV options and one for harassment
1. JLAV
2. RE's
1. FG
I do love our HAV overlords, please spare me from your murderous wrath when you roll in your murderfort while laughing at anything that isn't another murderfort ok?
TOUGH TITTY, SAID THE KITTY.
-Blaine the Mono
a¦áGùía¦á
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1642
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Yeah... If you allow yourself to be killed by REs, your a scrub. I'm not really sure how more Sentinels on the field change the fact that vehicles are broken, in fact the proficency & damage modifiers makes Shielded HAVs even more EZ than before (I didn't think it was possible ) I also fail to see how any of this provides even the slightest hint of evidence that CCP is balancing HAVs against Heavy Frames (even then, they'd still be broken) [/thread]
If you are invisible, I can't hit you. If you are tanked out in a heavy suit then you should have a logi ***** following you. I'd be surprised not to see several heavies camping objectives (esp the indoor objectives) with a ton of links and hives. Tanks can't reach some. Others, a tank is going to be the only thing to help efficiently clear all that out and give the other team a fighting chance.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1642
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:So we now have two viable infantry AV options and one for harassment
1. JLAV
2. RE's
1. FG
I do love our HAV overlords, please spare me from your murderous wrath when you roll in your murderfort while laughing at anything that isn't another murderfort ok?
See above.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6150
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
If you are invisible, I can't hit you. If you are tanked out in a heavy suit then you should have a logi ***** following you. I'd be surprised not to see several heavies camping objectives (esp the indoor objectives) with a ton of links and hives. Tanks can't reach some. Others, a tank is going to be the only thing to help efficiently clear all that out and give the other team a fighting chance.
And how many people do you expect to be invisible?
Basically your model of balance revolves around several units being supported by several other units? And the off chance that they happen to be wearing a cloak? Lol?
So the risk/reward ideal isn't broken with HAVs after all. It's just on a 5-6:1 ratio? Lol?
I'll rely on my handy Mass Driver and Remote Explosives if I need something cleared out efficiently. I'm not really sure what makes you believe that an HAV is the only thing that would clear them up.
Then again, you are a tanker. The battlefield must revolve around you. 
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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HiddenBrother
133
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
It seems as if no one wants to use strategy.
I see an imminent nerf on tanks that will once again make them a rare sight on the battlefield.
Which is a damn shame because I have an actual use for my AV weapons.
People also tend to forget that Proto tier vehicles won't be happening.
Caldari.
Fear, and admiration.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6153
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
HiddenBrother wrote:It seems as if no one wants to use strategy.
I see an imminent nerf on tanks that will once again make them a rare sight on the battlefield.
Which is a damn shame because I have an actual use for my AV weapons.
People also tend to forget that Proto tier vehicles won't be happening.
The real shame, is that there has yet to be a single valid argument as to why vehicles aren't overpowered.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1642
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
If you are invisible, I can't hit you. If you are tanked out in a heavy suit then you should have a logi ***** following you. I'd be surprised not to see several heavies camping objectives (esp the indoor objectives) with a ton of links and hives. Tanks can't reach some. Others, a tank is going to be the only thing to help efficiently clear all that out and give the other team a fighting chance.
And how many people do you expect to be invisible? Basically your model of balance revolves around several units being supported by several other units? And the off chance that they happen to be wearing a cloak? Lol? So the risk/reward ideal isn't broken with HAVs after all. It's just on a 5-6:1 ratio? Lol? I'll rely on my handy Mass Driver and Remote Explosives if I need something cleared out efficiently. I'm not really sure what makes you believe that an HAV is the only thing that would clear them up. Then again, you are a tanker. The battlefield must revolve around you.
No. If you are not running one of these new suit choices you'd be crazy. Who is not going to be running them? MD vs. a tank for efficient removal, with the limitations mentioned is a non issue. Somebody will be running an MD and some running tanks.
Under the present circumstances, if you are still bitching about tanks being OP you really don't have any excuse.
Look at what the new suits and bonuses provide? Totally in-line with tanks now. BTW, I run a missile tank. So, far from being able to be blamed for infantry woes.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
3126
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:So we now have two viable infantry AV options and one for harassment
1. JLAV
2. RE's
1. FG
I do love our HAV overlords, please spare me from your murderous wrath when you roll in your murderfort while laughing at anything that isn't another murderfort ok?
I am your new HAV Overlord! Squad with me and I won't kill you. |
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1642
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Atiim wrote:HiddenBrother wrote:It seems as if no one wants to use strategy.
I see an imminent nerf on tanks that will once again make them a rare sight on the battlefield.
Which is a damn shame because I have an actual use for my AV weapons.
People also tend to forget that Proto tier vehicles won't be happening. The real shame, is that there has yet to be a single valid argument as to why vehicles aren't overpowered.
Atiim you are the very definition of the TANKOPHOBE on these forums anyway. Hardly the beacon of objective discussion on tanks.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
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Rusty Shallows
1246
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm trying to take the O.P. seriously but when he goes shuffling around with two crutches under each arm I keep chuckling uncontrollably.
Here, have some candy and a Like. :-)
Forums > Game
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Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
731
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:So we now have two viable infantry AV options and one for harassment
1. JLAV
2. RE's
1. FG
I do love our HAV overlords, please spare me from your murderous wrath when you roll in your murderfort while laughing at anything that isn't another murderfort ok? I am your new HAV Overlord! Squad with me and I won't kill you.
I will, just as long as I'm saved from your wrath oh Great One!
I will even lead you to our secret hideouts and meetings so you
can exact your just and swift revenge on these scum that dare
to try and scratch your paint.
please don't kill me
TOUGH TITTY, SAID THE KITTY.
-Blaine the Mono
a¦áGùía¦á
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HiddenBrother
133
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The real shame, is that there has yet to be a single valid argument as to why vehicles aren't overpowered.
I can solo them...with a *gasp* Swarm Launcher.
However, you can no longer approach them with a gung-ho attitude. In 1.6 you could pretty much just waltz up to the damn thing, and put an end to their pricey bucket o' bolts. Better yet; I could of just tower swarm. The only issue? There weren't any tanks around in 1.6
Needless to say; being an AV soldier is the most awesome role on the battlefield. (As of now in 1.7) I literally take down tanks by myself, and I sure as hell earned it.
Caldari.
Fear, and admiration.
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6153
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
No. If you are not running one of these new suit choices you'd be crazy. Who is not going to be running them? MD vs. a tank for efficient removal, with the limitations mentioned is a non issue. Somebody will be running an MD and some running tanks.
So I ask again, do you honestly expect things to be balanced on the off chance that somebody is running a Light Frame?
Yes, but an HAV won't be the only way; serving to completely undermine your original statement.
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Under the present circumstances, if you are still bitching about tanks being OP you really don't have any excuse.
How?
You've still yet to present any evidence as to how the new suits make vehicles balanced. While I can name multiple things that have only served to imbalance them even further in Uprising 1.8
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Look at what the new suits and bonuses provide? Totally in-line with tanks now. BTW, I run a missile tank. So, far from being able to be blamed for infantry woes.
You must not have taken your meds yet. Give me one bonus that makes HAVs (or any vehicle for that matter) balanced.
Also, I run Missile HAVs as well. It's not hard to rack up the kills if you lead your shots as opposed to mag-dumping them. But that might require 'skill'. Wouldn't want to strain you now would we?
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1642
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:I'm trying to take the O.P. seriously but when he goes shuffling around with two crutches under each arm I keep chuckling uncontrollably. Edit: "tankophobe" troll-lo-la-la-la. 
I know. It is funny how people have wanted to complain about tanks under the pretense of imblance and now we have a big change in roles and abilities that make it much harder for tanks to just ride around murdering innocent, fully exposed, non splash guarded infantry. You tank haters have proven your true intentions.
You don't want tanks balanced. You just want to hate tanks altogether. Which is ultimately what I'm getting at. Hence the term is appropriate GÇô TANKOPHOBES.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6155
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
HiddenBrother wrote:Atiim wrote:The real shame, is that there has yet to be a single valid argument as to why vehicles aren't overpowered. I can solo them...with a *gasp* Swarm Launcher. However, you can no longer approach them with a gung-ho attitude. In 1.6 you could pretty much just waltz up to the damn thing, and put an end to their pricey bucket o' bolts. Better yet; I could of just tower swarm. The only issue? There weren't any tanks around in 1.6 Needless to say; being an AV soldier is the most awesome role on the battlefield. (As of now in 1.7) I literally take down tanks by myself, and I sure as hell earned it.
Anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence. I could also say that 1.6 HAVs were balanced simply because I could easily survive Swarm Launchers (which was true to an extent).
Also, judging by this video here; I find the fact that you soloing HAVs (driven by a competent pilot) highly unlikely.
Though since you seem so smug, I'd love to make a wager with you.
Your Swarm Launcher vs. My Gunnlogi. 50m ISK says you couldn't solo me.
Eh?
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1642
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
No. If you are not running one of these new suit choices you'd be crazy. Who is not going to be running them? MD vs. a tank for efficient removal, with the limitations mentioned is a non issue. Somebody will be running an MD and some running tanks.
So I ask again, do you honestly expect things to be balanced on the off chance that somebody is running a Light Frame? Yes, but an HAV won't be the only way; serving to completely undermine your original statement. Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Under the present circumstances, if you are still bitching about tanks being OP you really don't have any excuse.
How? You've still yet to present any evidence as to how the new suits make vehicles balanced. While I can name multiple things that have only served to imbalance them even further in Uprising 1.8 Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Look at what the new suits and bonuses provide? Totally in-line with tanks now. BTW, I run a missile tank. So, far from being able to be blamed for infantry woes.
You must not have taken your meds yet. Give me one bonus that makes HAVs (or any vehicle for that matter) balanced. Also, I run Missile HAVs as well. It's not hard to rack up the kills if you lead your shots as opposed to mag-dumping them. But that might require 'skill'. Wouldn't want to strain you now would we?
Wow, I write in perfect English and still it goes right over your head. I did provide the reasons. You don't accept them as valid. Cloaks, heavy bonuses, logi bonuses etc are ample reason to NOT to get r*ped by tanks.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
|
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1642
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Atiim wrote:HiddenBrother wrote:Atiim wrote:The real shame, is that there has yet to be a single valid argument as to why vehicles aren't overpowered. I can solo them...with a *gasp* Swarm Launcher. However, you can no longer approach them with a gung-ho attitude. In 1.6 you could pretty much just waltz up to the damn thing, and put an end to their pricey bucket o' bolts. Better yet; I could of just tower swarm. The only issue? There weren't any tanks around in 1.6 Needless to say; being an AV soldier is the most awesome role on the battlefield. (As of now in 1.7) I literally take down tanks by myself, and I sure as hell earned it. Anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence. I could also say that 1.6 HAVs were balanced simply because I could easily survive Swarm Launchers (which was true to an extent). Also, judging by this video here; I find the fact that you soloing HAVs (driven by a competent pilot) highly unlikely.
Though since you seem so smug, I'd love to make a wager with you. Your Swarm Launcher vs. My Gunnlogi. 50m ISK says you couldn't solo me. Eh?
Ah Atiim, basing your arguments on baiting, assumptions and character assassination to prove your point.
I'm not the one who has written post after post of tank whine.
Why would I solo you with a swarm when I can run one of the suits and roles I mentioned to largely avoid tanks?
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
|
bamboo x
Eternal Beings
Proficiency V.
369
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
No. Remotes were already pretty bad against shield tanks (I know because I have one) and now Forge Guns are less effective against them.
Although admittedly I was screwing around in a basic cloak dragonfly that could only fit a toxin, and I hopped right on top of him without him noticing... RE's won't be scaring a proto Gunnlogi.
We need Gallente and Amarr racial heavy weapons. I think that will balance things. Also swarms need some help.
I laugh at your CR, HMG, SMG, LR, ScR, AR, ScP & IoP
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6157
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Atiim you are the very definition of the TANKOPHOBE on these forums anyway. Hardly the beacon of objective discussion on tanks.
Tankophobe, would imply that I'm actually afraid of them, which is hardly the case. It's actually quite easy to pop the scrubs with a Particle Cannon.
That doesn't change the fact that there has not been a single valid argument as to why HAVs are balanced, while I and many others have presented ones that are are both irrefutable, and imply the contrary.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
HiddenBrother
133
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Though since you seem so smug, I'd love to make a wager with you.
Your Swarm Launcher vs. My Gunnlogi. 50m ISK says you couldn't solo me.
Eh?
That depends on the circumstances of what the said wager are.
If you're aware of me, and expecting me; then I'm likely done for.
A tank that is aware of a solo AV infantry soldier? Yep, your job just got exponentially harder.
Also, you have to venture out of the redline. If any friendly tanks damage you; well thats your own fault, and I will make good use of your constant fear of other tankers who are quite eager to get that nice 200+ wp.
Edit: Apparently I'm using a "broken" Swarm Launcher? (If anyone has a link to CCP confirmation; point me in the direction.) Someone should build a monument for my somewhat heroic efforts. Nope, damn scouts get all the praise.
Caldari.
Fear, and admiration.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6157
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Wow, I write in perfect English and still it goes right over your head. I did provide the reasons. You don't accept them as valid. Cloaks, heavy bonuses, logi bonuses etc are ample reason to NOT to get r*ped by tanks.
I didn't accept them as valid, because they aren't.
The Cloak (which is pretty much Scout exclusive), doesn't make you completely invisible. So a decent tanker with a keen eye will still be able to kill you.
Heavy Bonuses? Won't change the fact that Forge Guns still cannot supply enough DPS to destroy an HAV with multiple Armor Repairers.
Logi Bonuses? Yeah, because a bonus to repair tools is really gonna help me kill a vehicle.'
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6157
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
HiddenBrother wrote:
That depends on the circumstances of what the said wager are.
If you're aware of me, and expecting me; then I'm likely done for.
A tank that is aware of a solo AV infantry soldier? Yep, your job just got exponentially harder.
Also, you have to venture out of the redline. If any friendly tanks damage you; well thats your own fault, and I will make good use of your constant fear of other tankers who are quite eager to get that nice 200+ wp.
Nope.
If anything damages me other than your Swarm Launcher, then your not soloing me; which would undermine the point of the wager.
I won't go into the redline, but anything else goes. You can't choose the battle conditions in a real fight, so why should you be able to choose them here?
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6160
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Ah Atiim, basing your arguments on baiting, assumptions and character assassination to prove your point.
I'm not the one who has written post after post of tank whine.
Why would I solo you with a swarm when I can run one of the suits and roles I mentioned to largely avoid tanks?
I try to refrain from doing so, but the original post was nothing but a combination of the 3, so I couldn't resist.
Doesn't change the fact that my arguments were constructive, and have yet to be refuted.
Why? Because then I get to stomp the mess out of everything in sight.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Nothing Certain
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
354
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
HiddenBrother wrote:Atiim wrote:The real shame, is that there has yet to be a single valid argument as to why vehicles aren't overpowered. I can solo them...with a *gasp* Swarm Launcher. However, you can no longer approach them with a gung-ho attitude. In 1.6 you could pretty much just waltz up to the damn thing, and put an end to their pricey bucket o' bolts. Better yet; I could of just tower swarm. The only issue? There weren't any tanks around in 1.6 Needless to say; being an AV soldier is the most awesome role on the battlefield. (As of now in 1.7) I literally take down tanks by myself, and I sure as hell earned it.
Send videos. I was in a match last night when the full squad brought out SL, we were firing at one tank, there had to be at least 20 missiles in the air at a time but he took 3 salvos before he drove off, then he brought friends and killed us all. It was just a lark for us but I don't think you are soloing many tanks with swarms.
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
354
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Atiim wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
No. If you are not running one of these new suit choices you'd be crazy. Who is not going to be running them? MD vs. a tank for efficient removal, with the limitations mentioned is a non issue. Somebody will be running an MD and some running tanks.
So I ask again, do you honestly expect things to be balanced on the off chance that somebody is running a Light Frame? Yes, but an HAV won't be the only way; serving to completely undermine your original statement. Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Under the present circumstances, if you are still bitching about tanks being OP you really don't have any excuse.
How? You've still yet to present any evidence as to how the new suits make vehicles balanced. While I can name multiple things that have only served to imbalance them even further in Uprising 1.8 Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:
Look at what the new suits and bonuses provide? Totally in-line with tanks now. BTW, I run a missile tank. So, far from being able to be blamed for infantry woes.
You must not have taken your meds yet. Give me one bonus that makes HAVs (or any vehicle for that matter) balanced. Also, I run Missile HAVs as well. It's not hard to rack up the kills if you lead your shots as opposed to mag-dumping them. But that might require 'skill'. Wouldn't want to strain you now would we? Wow, I write in perfect English and still it goes right over your head. I did provide the reasons. You don't accept them as valid. Cloaks, heavy bonuses, logi bonuses etc are ample reason to NOT to get r*ped by tanks.
How is any of that relevant to the issue? How does a Logi bonus stop tanks from killing infantry?
Because, that's why.
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
995
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 21:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Atiim wrote:Yeah... If you allow yourself to be killed by REs, your a scrub. I'm not really sure how more Sentinels on the field change the fact that vehicles are broken, in fact the proficency & damage modifiers makes Shielded HAVs even more EZ than before (I didn't think it was possible ) I also fail to see how any of this provides even the slightest hint of evidence that CCP is balancing HAVs against Heavy Frames (even then, they'd still be broken) [/thread] If you are invisible, I can't hit you. If you are tanked out in a heavy suit then you should have a logi ***** following you. I'd be surprised not to see several heavies camping objectives (esp the indoor objectives) with a ton of links and hives. Tanks can't reach some. Others, a tank is going to be the only thing to help efficiently clear all that out and give the other team a fighting chance.
That isn't a good argument.
Heavies need to be a threat to vehicles only when hardeners are down. Vehicles need to be unable to be permahardened.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
Fixed link.
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
676
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Yeah... If you allow yourself to be killed by REs, your a scrub. I'm not really sure how more Sentinels on the field change the fact that vehicles are broken, in fact the proficency & damage modifiers makes Shielded HAVs even more EZ than before (I didn't think it was possible ) I also fail to see how any of this provides even the slightest hint of evidence that CCP is balancing HAVs against Heavy Frames (even then, they'd still be broken) [/thread]
I think you might see a noticeable difference in tank spam now that you gain WP for damaging them. Yes true, GOOD tankers will live, scrub tankers will do what they should have done a LONG time ago.
die
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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