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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2272
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Posted - 2014.03.23 09:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yes, I watched Judge's video.
Yes, I agreed with nearly everything he said.
No, I don't see how that changes the broken-ness of swarms.
What I got from that was that DS resist to swarms was broken, and that shield recharge breaking needs to be looked at.
Swarms are no more broken than they were before. Forges have similar issues dealing with multiple hardeners, though obviously not as pronounced.
(I do think Judge could have been more rigorous, however. I don't know, for example, whether or not the STD DSes have the same resists, and to the best of my recollection that wasn't tested. His testing environment was also subpar. I'd think it'd be better had he tested the swarms with a cooperative party on the other side, and preferably with one on his side also.)
ak.0 4 LYFE
Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2272
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Posted - 2014.03.23 10:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
It seems like people are seeing these videos and reading entirely the wrong thing into them.
I mean, I've seen a few people calling for a flat damage buff to swarms.
Which is ridiculous, because the kind of damage they'd need to fix the issues they're currently experiencing would be incredible.
ak.0 4 LYFE
Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2272
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 10:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Whether the problem is attributed to swarms themselves or the vehicles in question, something is broken. As we all know people on these forums are generally pretty poor at expressing what they actually mean.
The video is already pretty long as it is and gets the main points across sufficiently, so putting extra stuff in just for "completeness" would be a little OTT.
I know, I think it could have been formatted better too :P
Not that I could be bothered, though.
I just think it could have been more 'scientific'.
ak.0 4 LYFE
Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2275
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
(I do think Judge could have been more rigorous, however. I don't know, for example, whether or not the STD DSes have the same resists, and to the best of my recollection that wasn't tested. His testing environment was also subpar. I'd think it'd be better had he tested the swarms with a cooperative party on the other side, and preferably with one on his side also.)
I did respond to you on this here. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:........I do think he might have been more meticulous in his live testing.
It seems a bit off that he's showing us during a battlefield scenario; there are all sorts of variables that must be taken into account when doing something like that. I saw a few swarm missiles impact on terrain at several points in the video, for example......
As it is, the video is essentially 21 minutes of spectacle with a few graphs being the only important things there. This is a video about the issues. This is in no way the sum total of my testing nor representative of how I gather all my data. It does however form part of the testing. If a control test shows swarms can kill an ADS in 10 hits for example but in no real battle is it possible to ever land 10 hits then the control test does not represent anything other than raw numbers. Many people need to see it rather than just look at a chart that says it. A chart can be dismissed more easily then watching 3 of us trying to take on a vehicle can. You need both control battle tests and "in the wild" battle data, These are also useless without a data model. to look for anomalies and run many scenarios. Also who wants to watch 20 minutes of me standing in a corner shooting 11 different builds of a swarm launcher into an ads..Then again into a tank...then a LAV?
...
It probably says something about me that I would watch that.
Anyway, thanks for the indepth response!
That wasn't really the thrust of my post, though; I was more despairing of the community's interpreting the results.
Again, I absolutely agree with your conclusions, and I'm incredibly glad that someone has the time, equipment and inclination to do things like this!
ak.0 4 LYFE
Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
|
Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2275
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 12:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Shadow Archeus wrote:I agree that it showed that hardeners are more broken than swarms are
However I also believe that a full barrage of swarms SHOULD interupt shield regen
Swarms SHOULD have a better damage % on Ds as well
Running stacked hardeners are more broken that swarms are
I never said they shouldn't. Neither did Judge, for the record.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:It seems as though swarms should do x amount of damage per missile, but, according to Judge's video, do significantly less damage. Am I interpreting that incorrectly? What other way is there to interpret this? EDIT: There is no other way to interpret this. In game, we are told swarms do x amount of damage. In practice, they do much less. END EDIT
"I don't know, for example, whether or not the STD DSes have the same resists"
Resist rely on whether you're shooting shield or armor and with what weapon type (explosive does -20% to shields and +20% to armor). Resists are completely independent of the suit/vehicle involved. It's that simple. Takahiro's statement, for example, is completely wrong. "Swarms are explosive, shield is 70% resistance to explosive..." As I said, resistances rely on you hitting shield or armor and with what weapon type. Shields don't have a 70% resistance to explosive weapons. Instead, explosive weapons do -20% damage to shields.
Judge's video showed that ADS had inherent 25% resist on shields and 45% resist on armour against swarms (potentially). I don't recall whether or not he showed the numbers for the STD DSes.
ak.0 4 LYFE
Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
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