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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
257
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/18/playstation-virtual-reality/
- Valkyrie is supposedly OR-exclusive - This is not OR - PS4 will happen at some point, anyway
So how likely is it? They don't even need to upgrade the graphics. Because the headset will require high and stable framerates to not make the players vomit. I love how VR will force all developers to accept the holy grail of at least 60FPS stable framerates. With some optimism, it might even trickle down to Youtube and movies.
I would love this just for the better FoV that it would give. Even if 90 is not as good as on the the OR. It might also allow head-controlled sniper rifles. Which would make precision shooting far more likely for controller players. The fact that it requires the PS camera also means that Move will need better support. Maybe it could be almost as good as mouse and keyboard then.
Imagine the sense of scale that this would give. The slow gameplay of Dust also lends itself well to a VR headset, in contrast to faster FPS.
However, CCP might want to simulate arms for Move owners. Let us punch people in natural ways and do fist fights. |
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CCP Saberwing
C C P C C P Alliance
2755
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff!
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
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shadow drake35
The Third Day Galactic Skyfleet Empire
77
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff! so will dust ever come out on ps4? if so awesome
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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RKKR
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
827
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff!
Could we actually get answers to questions concerning this game?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1949350#post1949350
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Ander Thedas
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
349
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff!
Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
FW lvl10 reward
Mobile Redlines
Default FWRace
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CCP Saberwing
C C P C C P Alliance
2757
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus.
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
3319
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we are launching with Project Morpheus.
Sony said Morpheus works with glasses. How about the OR? Us old people need to see our targets.
Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
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Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
230
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ander Thedas wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff! Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
Project Morpheus is Sony's VR headset solution - similar to the Oculus Rift.
Valkyrie on PS4 will use that instead of the Rift.
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
1743
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Basically, using the word "exclusive" with PC, just means they're screwing anyone who was hoping to play without buying a VR headset. ;)
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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steadyhand amarr
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
2630
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff!
If one was suddenly gets a ps4 and when its out the VR headset are their intentions to run an alpha/ beta program for this product i really need more than 6 minutes to give good feedback :-P:-P
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
230
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Can the game be played without VR is the next question I would have.
- Similar to 3D, not all people like the experience
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Baltazar Pontain
Phantom Universe Task Force Die Fremdenlegion
97
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Awesome that EVE Valkyrie will be available for PC AND PS.
Very good news.
That gives me hope that Dust514 will be for PC too at some point (PS4 will come for sure). |
Liquid Big Boss
Quebec United
152
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
what about bring DUST first to PS4....
I'm the boss to superpass big boss itself
MAG vet Raven forever
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ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
588
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus.
Available with Project Morpheus.. but not exclusive on consoles.. Hmm, what's MS up to now?
xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own...
So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
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COVERT SUBTERFUGE
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY
677
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm so getting this when it drops. Tried it last FF and that was an older demo and older OR tech. Hopefully get to check it out at FF if I make it.
Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 6/10
Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome
Roll with the punches instead of QQing
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G Torq
ALTA B2O
507
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus.
....but not exclusive to Project Morpheus ... that is interesting!
Team Fairy DUST
HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
12329
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
I need to stop being poor, I want a PS4 so god damn bad >_<
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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steadyhand amarr
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
2631
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
ResistanceGTA wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus. Available with Project Morpheus.. but not exclusive on consoles.. Hmm, what's MS up to now?
Most likely getting an earfull from the titanfall guys, apprently a quite **** fit was thrown over the exclusive deal that was made by EA i doubt MS or Sony want to risk upsetting studios at this point. More so the xbox due to just not going anyware at the monent
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
257
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff! ...I didn't expect this to happen through my thread. Well, this is quite awesome. I'm leaning more and more to a PS4. But maybe Microsoft will bring their own VR system.
Anyway, is performance a concern for Valkyrie on the PS4? That stuff does need really high framerates, after all. The current OR dev kit runs at 75FPS and, according to the interview that spoke about it, that's not even the minimum necessary for a proper experience. Supposedly, they want to get at least 90FPS. |
crazy space 1
GunFall Mobilization
2206
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we are launching with Project Morpheus. Sony said Morpheus works with glasses. How about the OR? Us old people need to see our targets.
It's weird, I'm nearsighted so I didn't think I would need glasses but without them it was super blurry . The guy at PAX told me the staff is full of people with glasses who have the same issue, he said the final product would have something to adjust over glasses since it presses them into your face and is not comfy right now >.< |
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crazy space 1
GunFall Mobilization
2206
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Liquid Big Boss wrote:what about bring DUST first to PS4.... The PS4 runs unreal 3 naively in 1080p with 8 GB of ram for textures, maps, gamesize and models. Right now dust is built on a custom engine to get it to run on ps3... but not now, and I hope they never waste time on unreal4, this game is far enough behind production as it is.
sigh, so one day I'm sure it'll happen, |
Seamie Schmoove
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
127
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Just read an article on IGN about Sony developing tech to allow you to play with your eyes. Imagine the use of this built into future VR headsets..
http://ie.ign.com/articles/2014/03/20/gdc-controlling-infamous-second-son-with-your-eyes
Playing the game badly since Replication
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn
3606
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus.
Question Answered/Not Answered Proficiency LVL 5. Smooth moves man
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
695
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus.
Will PC and PS4 players play together with EVE players? (Wouldn't expect DUST integration, to be honest.)
After seeing DUST's uh.... 'integration' with EVE and making me feel like a part of New Eden, you can understand if I'm not exactly holding my breath for any kind of integration at all with Valkyrie and New Eden. Maybe some chat channels, I guess.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn
3607
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Valkyrie does look dope
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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Grimmiers
0uter.Heaven
458
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
I wonder how dust would work with vr
SoundCloud
Recruiter Link
Pronounced Grim-e-urs
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
1025
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I need to stop being poor, I want a PS4 so god damn bad >_< You aren't missing out on THAT much yet. Of course, that being said, I'm playing Infamous: Second Son next week. But I'll still probably pop into Dust some to let you SOBs murder my poor commando
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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DootDoot
Da Short Buss RISE of LEGION
294
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus.
Is this Because Occulus is having Supply issues in Manufacturing? They haven't even answered all the questions about potential new sources of supply... To even resume full Manufacturing... As of currently Production on the Occulus rift headset's are on stop..
Will Occulus production Woe's slow down the Launch of Valkyrie on the PC? |
Paran Tadec
The Hetairoi
1989
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus. Will PC and PS4 players play together with EVE players? (Wouldn't expect DUST integration, to be honest.) After seeing DUST's uh.... 'integration' with EVE and making me feel like a part of New Eden, you can understand if I'm not exactly holding my breath for any kind of integration at all with Valkyrie and New Eden. Maybe some chat channels, I guess.
No, atleast not how you are imagining it.
Bittervet Proficiency V
thanks logibro!
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SUNNY THE NINJA
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
106
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Posted - 2014.03.21 03:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
I was so happy when i saw a thread about dust on the Ps4 AND a dev post...
Excuse the spelling mistakes please
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Forever ETC
703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
154
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Posted - 2014.03.21 03:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
The VR by Sony is rumored to come out 2015, so would Valkyrie launch with it or would it come later in 2015 or 2016?
Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd.
Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013
ETC- My Initials!!
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boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
391
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Posted - 2014.03.21 04:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
really this again? of course dust will end up on ps4. but jesus stop pissing and moaning about it. give ccp the time they need to get it in a state where it's worth being on the ps4.
there is a 5 year plan and i know fine well that the ps4 is on that map.
i want proxie chat so i can run around in the gall heavy saying GET IN MAH BELLY. nah just kidding trade window please=)
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LT Dans Legs
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
302
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Posted - 2014.03.21 06:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff! Ya, now if only Dust would work right.
To Live Is To Die!!!!!
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G Torq
ALTA B2O
514
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Posted - 2014.03.21 06:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Will PC and PS4 players play together with EVE players? (Wouldn't expect DUST integration, to be honest.)
After seeing DUST's uh.... 'integration' with EVE and making me feel like a part of New Eden, you can understand if I'm not exactly holding my breath for any kind of integration at all with Valkyrie and New Eden. Maybe some chat channels, I guess.
On the latter, CCP Games have said in a few different places that there are no immediate plans for integrating EVE:Valkyrie with the larger New Eden universe, and EVE:Online.
Also, how much "fun" would EVE:Valkyrie be at 10%TiDi
Team Fairy DUST
HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
485
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Posted - 2014.03.21 06:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
I'd take project Morpheus seriously if they dropped the gimmick motion controller move garbage. It's just as bad as the kinect. And no for Head controlled sniper rifles, sniping is broken enough without adding another layer of difficulty lol.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
230
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Posted - 2014.03.21 07:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:I'd take project Morpheus seriously if they dropped the gimmick motion controller move garbage. It's just as bad as the kinect. And no for Head controlled sniper rifles, sniping is broken enough without adding another layer of difficulty lol.
I can just see some guy laying on his bed in a gillie suit in prone with a move controller sniping like it's real life.
PvE 2014
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SPESHULz
The Southern Legion
59
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Posted - 2014.03.21 07:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
G Torq wrote: ....but not exclusive to Project Morpheus ... that is interesting!
how is there going to be something else on a ps4
Blood flows. Death comes. War rages
Maths is OP. Those numbers kill you
RedLineLove
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
1084
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Posted - 2014.03.21 08:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
SPESHULz wrote:G Torq wrote: ....but not exclusive to Project Morpheus ... that is interesting!
how is there going to be something else on a ps4
Because the PS4 and Xbox One are PC based, so there's nothing stopping Rift bringing out a console version...
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
CPM1 candidate
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Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
246
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Posted - 2014.03.21 12:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I need to stop being poor, I want a PS4 so god damn bad >_< You aren't missing out on THAT much yet. Of course, that being said, I'm playing Infamous: Second Son next week. But I'll still probably pop into Dust some to let you SOBs murder my poor commando
Yeah
If you dont have one (like me) you can hold off until the fall or christmas - unless you have to play Infamous which looks really great.
But the games really arent there yet.
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Banjo Robertson
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
104
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Posted - 2014.03.21 12:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus.
So in other words we are gonna have to hack or mod the game if we dont wana spend $200 on some stupid visor. |
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
259
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Posted - 2014.03.21 15:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote: So in other words we are gonna have to hack or mod the game if we dont wana spend $200 on some stupid visor.
Do you also intend to play Dust on a monochrome screen with an Atari joystick?
Good luck playing Valkyrie without a VR headset. You don't seem to realize that part of the controls are built to be mapped onto your head. Ever tried to utilize two aims simultaneously with just two hands? |
Paran Tadec
The Hetairoi
1991
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Liquid Big Boss wrote:what about bring DUST first to PS4.... The PS4 runs unreal 3 naively in 1080p with 8 GB of ram for textures, maps, gamesize and models. Right now dust is built on a custom engine to get it to run on ps3... but not now, and I hope they never waste time on unreal4, this game is far enough behind production as it is. sigh, so one day I'm sure it'll happen,
Lol 1080p console peasantry.
Bittervet Proficiency V
thanks logibro!
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
697
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:43:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ander Thedas wrote: Wait, so then it's NOT exclusive? Or, is Project Morpheus something completely different? That wording is a tad bit confusing.
EVE: Valkyrie: On the PC, we are exclusive with Oculus Rift. On the PS4, we will be available with Project Morpheus.
How will cross play work? Can I play my Valkyrie character on the PS4 and when my wife wants the tv, move to the PC and play the same Valkyrie character where I left off from on the PS4?
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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TechMechMeds
SWAMPERIUM
2886
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Posted - 2014.03.21 17:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:Liquid Big Boss wrote:what about bring DUST first to PS4.... The PS4 runs unreal 3 naively in 1080p with 8 GB of ram for textures, maps, gamesize and models. Right now dust is built on a custom engine to get it to run on ps3... but not now, and I hope they never waste time on unreal4, this game is far enough behind production as it is. sigh, so one day I'm sure it'll happen, Lol 1080p console peasantry.
Do you have a pc and a ps4?
Level 2 forum warrior.
Dust on the ps4 asap please
I'll behave
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Banjo Robertson
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
105
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Posted - 2014.03.21 17:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote: So in other words we are gonna have to hack or mod the game if we dont wana spend $200 on some stupid visor.
Do you also intend to play Dust on a monochrome screen with an Atari joystick? Good luck playing Valkyrie without a VR headset. You don't seem to realize that part of the controls are built to be mapped onto your head. Ever tried to utilize two aims simultaneously with just two hands?
All you need is support for two mouse inputs at the same time, which really, you'd think that would be something people would have thought of before using the movement of a visor as another input method. Or, I dunno, use the mouse to look around and a joystick to steer/aim. Its possible. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
3096
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Posted - 2014.03.21 18:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:Sole Fenychs wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote: So in other words we are gonna have to hack or mod the game if we dont wana spend $200 on some stupid visor.
Do you also intend to play Dust on a monochrome screen with an Atari joystick? Good luck playing Valkyrie without a VR headset. You don't seem to realize that part of the controls are built to be mapped onto your head. Ever tried to utilize two aims simultaneously with just two hands? All you need is support for two mouse inputs at the same time, which really, you'd think that would be something people would have thought of before using the movement of a visor as another input method. Or, I dunno, use the mouse to look around and a joystick to steer/aim. Its possible.
If it's done right it will use both hands for flying and shooting and use the visor to control the view.
Think of what we could have in DUST if our necks weren't fused solid. Turn your head and you can see that scout sneaking up behind you. |
NAV HIV
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
1210
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Posted - 2014.03.21 18:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:EVE: Valkyrie is Oculus Rift exclusive on the PC. It will also be available on the PS4 with Project Morpheus.
I was at the VR announcement yesterday at GDC - super cool stuff!
So Finally I can have some spaceships too ?! |
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