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Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2067
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 19:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
So looks like the assault suits will get no love once again. Some may see this changes as an improvement, but they really are not. My main issue is the suits giving bonuses to use of racial weapons... I don't like the idea of being forced into using a racial weapon to feel the benefits of the suit. 1st off CPU/PG of all modules, equipment and weaponry should be all designed to fit a prototype suit and maxed skill sets. If I have: Dropsuit core upgrade 5 Dropsuit Engineering 5 Dropsuit Electronics 5 Explosives 5 Light weapon operation 5 Side Arm operation 5 I should NOT have any problem fitting my suit with all complex modulesand all prototype weapons, grenades and equipment. I should never have to rely on my "racial" bonuses to gain an additional 25% to such and such.
Assualts are frontline fighters, their primary bonus should be to their defense type(shield or armor), secondary stat should push base damage of the weaponry. Gallente Assualt suit at level 5 should get 10% additional armor(armor based suits) and 10% damage to light weaponry. Its that simple. Assault should be defense and attack, down the middle but lacking in equipment options(1 equipment slot) and less versitile than a commando that can rock 2 light weapons.
Logistics should also not be forced into a racial equipment bonus. Stats from equipment should come from equipment, Logistics should be defensive, they are designed to run amongst heavy gunfights, with the ability to withstand damage better than assaults at the cost of offensive options. I don't know what a secondary stat would be tbo, I always thought they should get defense and regen boosts.
Racial benefits. Racial benefits should be a stat attached to the items. easier to just stick some examples up than explain this
A weapon can be used by anyone, but use of the weapon by the matching race will give a small bonus. Rail rifle- For Gal/min/amarr the base stats should stay as is. When a Caldari uses it he should gain a small bonus across ALL stats, this is his racial efficiency. I'd say just a 5% boost, not a great amoutn but enough to make it matter.
Example using 1.7 STD rail rifle stats
Non caldari Caldari
Damage --- 55.00HP Charge up time --- 0.25s Rate of fire --- 461.54RPM Accuracy --- 58.28 61.91
Caldari
Damage --- 57.75 Charge up time --- 0.23s Rate of fire --- 481.61RPM Accuracy --- 61.91
etc etc.. Also PG/CPU usage could be reduced.
This means that gives bonus through loyalty, not through being cornered into the choice. The idea is diversity, your choice of clone and how you build him, not the pre-set numbed down crap 1.8 will bring.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
11341
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
I really liked the initial set of bonuses, though I had a few complaints.
25% bonus to your tanking choice module? That's a great bonus! There were a few things that should have been shuffled (Rep/Plate -> Gallente/Amarr, for example) but that was pretty great.
RoF bonus was pretty great. It would have been better off as something different in some cases (overheat bonus for Amarr, that kind of thing) but having a weapon bonus as well was nice. Unfortunately, Can't Code Properly screwed up the bonuses so we can't have nice things like that.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
590
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I should NOT have any problem fitting my suit with all complex modulesand all prototype weapons, grenades and equipment. I should never have to rely on my "racial" bonuses to gain an additional 25% to such and such.
I disagree. What's the purpose of suit styles if you can have one build that can equip everything you want? The current specializations is designed for the player to pick a "role" that he/she wants to fulfill and grants bonuses that (theoretically) aid in that role.
"Trust and you'll be trusted," says the liar to the fool.
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Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2067
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I should NOT have any problem fitting my suit with all complex modulesand all prototype weapons, grenades and equipment. I should never have to rely on my "racial" bonuses to gain an additional 25% to such and such. I disagree. What's the purpose of suit styles if you can have one build that can equip everything you want? The current specializations is designed for the player to pick a "role" that he/she wants to fulfill and grants bonuses that (theoretically) aid in that role.
Whats the point in havving everything maxed out if you still after 1 year of playing 30+ million points can't rock a top of the current range suit, thats what all the work was for, to be able to use the top ****.
Roles can still be created by alllowing suits to perform their roles. Assault to assualt (currenlty assualt = lol) Logistics to be logistics (currently logistics = scout, heavy, logi, slayer etc) Heavy, 1.8 will finally bring in the heavies Scouts will never be scouts, and should be renamed assassins. commandos look good for 1.8 also.
Structuring WP system too reward roles for doing their job would also help, right now only really tankers and logistics are rewarded for their roles
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2242
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
The key with Medium suits is how they can push the bulk of the scanning meta.
Because of the scanner nerf, you get your max dampening skilled medium suits to run one PRO damp now and vehicle scans, and ADV active scanners not held by gal logis will not be able to see them. The amarr suits with more base HP and gal suits with more low slots are better able to do this. |
CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
204
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:So looks like the assault suits will get no love once again. Some may see this changes as an improvement, but they really are not. My main issue is the suits giving bonuses to use of racial weapons... I don't like the idea of being forced into using a racial weapon to feel the benefits of the suit. 1st off CPU/PG of all modules, equipment and weaponry should be all designed to fit a prototype suit and maxed skill sets. If I have: Dropsuit core upgrade 5 Dropsuit Engineering 5 Dropsuit Electronics 5 Explosives 5 Light weapon operation 5 Side Arm operation 5 I should NOT have any problem fitting my suit with all complex modulesand all prototype weapons, grenades and equipment. I should never have to rely on my "racial" bonuses to gain an additional 25% to such and such.
Assualts are frontline fighters, their primary bonus should be to their defense type(shield or armor), secondary stat should push base damage of the weaponry. Gallente Assualt suit at level 5 should get 10% additional armor(armor based suits) and 10% damage to light weaponry. Its that simple. Assault should be defense and attack, down the middle but lacking in equipment options(1 equipment slot) and less versitile than a commando that can rock 2 light weapons.
Logistics should also not be forced into a racial equipment bonus. Stats from equipment should come from equipment, Logistics should be defensive, they are designed to run amongst heavy gunfights, with the ability to withstand damage better than assaults at the cost of offensive options. I don't know what a secondary stat would be tbo, I always thought they should get defense and regen boosts.
Racial benefits. Racial benefits should be a stat attached to the items. easier to just stick some examples up than explain this
A weapon can be used by anyone, but use of the weapon by the matching race will give a small bonus. Rail rifle- For Gal/min/amarr the base stats should stay as is. When a Caldari uses it he should gain a small bonus across ALL stats, this is his racial efficiency. I'd say just a 5% boost, not a great amoutn but enough to make it matter.
Example using 1.7 STD rail rifle stats
Non caldari Caldari
Damage --- 55.00HP Charge up time --- 0.25s Rate of fire --- 461.54RPM Accuracy --- 58.28 61.91
Caldari
Damage --- 57.75 Charge up time --- 0.23s Rate of fire --- 481.61RPM Accuracy --- 61.91
etc etc.. Also PG/CPU usage could be reduced.
This means that gives bonus through loyalty, not through being cornered into the choice. The idea is diversity, your choice of clone and how you build him, not the pre-set numbed down crap 1.8 will bring. that is a step in the right direction maybe tweek it just a bit but good idea. and good luck on your travels i didn't know you left the corp
The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
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Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2067
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 19:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'll add a disclaimer to the OP, my example stats should be taken as examples of what I'm trying to explain. NOT what i thinkor demand them to actually be.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2068
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
I guess the easiest way to explain my issue is that currently on Sgt Buttscratch I run scout and assault. I will keep my scout. Assault has always been annoying due to how pathetic the bonuses are. So when I get my dropsuit re-roll, I will go scout and then I have nothing to choose other than other scouts. I have a heavy ready for his new race, a logi ready to switch races also(though I don't think I should have to change race to play my logi the way I play her). In my mind all 1.8 does is turn my scout into a troll and also allow me to drop the assault as it will not be a competitive suit to run still.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8360
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Disagree.
The Commando is significantly more versatile than an assault suit for combat. A well built commando consumes about 18 Million SP by Aero's calculations and will perform significantly better next build, more so than any Assault suit will be able to be.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2068
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Disagree.
The Commando is significantly more versatile than an assault suit for combat. A well built commando consumes about 18 Million SP by Aero's calculations and will perform significantly better next build, more so than any Assault suit will be able to be.
???? Pretty sure I said commando is more versitile..
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
|
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7453
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote: I should NOT have any problem fitting my suit with all complex modulesand all prototype weapons, grenades and equipment. I should never have to rely on my "racial" bonuses to gain an additional 25% to such and such.
This screams out Entitlement Issue right here.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Jacques Cayton II
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
684
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sgt butscratch that's the way it is in eve that's the way it should be in dust as far as bonuses. Your race gets bonuses to racial weapons boom mind blown
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
592
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Whats the point in havving everything maxed out if you still after 1 year of playing 30+ million points can't rock a top of the current range suit, thats what all the work was for, to be able to use the top ****.
Roles can still be created by alllowing suits to perform their roles. Assault to assualt (currenlty assualt = lol) Logistics to be logistics (currently logistics = scout, heavy, logi, slayer etc) Heavy, 1.8 will finally bring in the heavies Scouts will never be scouts, and should be renamed assassins. commandos look good for 1.8 also.
Structuring WP system too reward roles for doing their job would also help, right now only really tankers and logistics are rewarded for their roles
The game is built around the concept of trade-offs--whether it's something as simple as better suits = higher cost or the advantages of having proto weaponry vs proto shields/armor/etc.--the whole point of the game is that you have to be willing to sacrifice something to get what you want. Want that proto RR? Fine...but it might mean that you can't equip proto grenades (hypothetical example.) As the player, you have to decide if the cost is outweighed by the benefit. Otherwise, you end up with a game of cookie-cutter suit layouts that only furthers the gap between new players and the veterans.
"Trust and you'll be trusted," says the liar to the fool.
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Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2068
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Quote: I should NOT have any problem fitting my suit with all complex modulesand all prototype weapons, grenades and equipment. I should never have to rely on my "racial" bonuses to gain an additional 25% to such and such.
This screams out Entitlement Issue right here.
NO. If you earn enough SP to complete all CPU/PG reduction skills, why are we stillstruggling for CPU/PG. There should be an end to the SP sink somewhere...
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8365
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:Sgt butscratch that's the way it is in eve that's the way it should be in dust as far as bonuses. Your race gets bonuses to racial weapons boom mind blown Indeed and to me Assault in EVE if I am right refers to ships designed to take down large ship types/ to fight on their level while provide a mobile fire support platform.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1892
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
1: straight damage is a no no. the bonuses they have now is surrounding the idea of consistent DPS. They want Assaults to keep on shooting. I think the bonuses are pretty good actually, and I'm to start skilling for Gal Assault in 1.8 (my first assault suit ).
2: The racial equipment thing was to give each logi a actual purpose, instead of all being used the exact same (other than like the Amarr logi).
With that being said, I think there needs to be another suit per Tech 2 class. Since we're on medium frames, I think Assaults should have one version (version 0) that is focused on gank (what we have in 1.8), and the other on tank (regen bonuses). FOr logi's, one should be based off of a specialized equipment (what we have in 1.8) and one on long-term logi under fire (bonused towards plates).
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2068
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Whats the point in havving everything maxed out if you still after 1 year of playing 30+ million points can't rock a top of the current range suit, thats what all the work was for, to be able to use the top ****.
Roles can still be created by alllowing suits to perform their roles. Assault to assualt (currenlty assualt = lol) Logistics to be logistics (currently logistics = scout, heavy, logi, slayer etc) Heavy, 1.8 will finally bring in the heavies Scouts will never be scouts, and should be renamed assassins. commandos look good for 1.8 also.
Structuring WP system too reward roles for doing their job would also help, right now only really tankers and logistics are rewarded for their roles The game is built around the concept of trade-offs--whether it's something as simple as better suits = higher cost or the advantages of having proto weaponry vs proto shields/armor/etc.--the whole point of the game is that you have to be willing to sacrifice something to get what you want. Want that proto RR? Fine...but it might mean that you can't equip proto grenades (hypothetical example.) As the player, you have to decide if the cost is outweighed by the benefit. Otherwise, you end up with a game of cookie-cutter suit layouts that only furthers the gap between new players and the veterans.
The trade off's come via choices on how a suit is fitted, speed, stealth, damage, repair, endurance, passive scans..etc. That is where the "trade-offs" should lie. They ability and leisure to choose how you fit your suit should not be an issue if your SP is in the correct place, and you have earned enough. The only game I have ever played where you can not wear a full endgame suit.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
|
Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2068
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:1: straight damage is a no no. the bonuses they have now is surrounding the idea of consistent DPS. They want Assaults to keep on shooting. I think the bonuses are pretty good actually, and I'm to start skilling for Gal Assault in 1.8 (my first assault suit ).
Yes hipfire reduction will come in handy when you are out ranged and out DPS'd with ease, the assault rifles are screwed. New Duvolle stats will be on par with current MLT, and it is the only assualt rifle with no realistic variant. Maybe if it was given damage bonus with a close range fight the hip fire would seem good, but right now the RR/SCR/CR will out perform it in nearly every circumstance.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1892
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:1: straight damage is a no no. the bonuses they have now is surrounding the idea of consistent DPS. They want Assaults to keep on shooting. I think the bonuses are pretty good actually, and I'm to start skilling for Gal Assault in 1.8 (my first assault suit ). Yes hipfire reduction will come in handy when you are out ranged and out DPS'd with ease, the assault rifles are screwed. New Duvolle stats will be on par with current MLT, and it is the only assualt rifle with no realistic variant. Maybe if it was given damage bonus with a close range fight the hip fire would seem good, but right now the RR/SCR/CR will out perform it in nearly every circumstance.
Like you just stated, that's a balance problem in the rifles, not the suit's problem, so you kinda kinda gave my counter argument without realizing it ;)
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1770
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
While I don't think the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are fine, I think having the "racial advantage" is a nice addition.
Think of it like Scrambler Rifle. That weapon rocks. However, when paired up with Amarr Assault, that weapon is a Boulder. Racial things should benefit from one another. You're not forced to use those combos. It's just an option. Same with logistics.
Also, I like the assault bonus you mentioned. The blanket skill could be +_x_% efficiency to racial tank per level and the specific ones are Amarr for laser heat up, Minmatar for ammo clip, Caldari for sharpshooter, and Gallente for RoF.
Those bonuses seem to help out their own weapons greatly. (Except a Caldari sniper, this is the only thing that could benefit from the current reload bonus). |
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Ayures II
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
559
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Quote: I should NOT have any problem fitting my suit with all complex modulesand all prototype weapons, grenades and equipment. I should never have to rely on my "racial" bonuses to gain an additional 25% to such and such.
This screams out Entitlement Issue right here. NO. If you earn enough SP to complete all CPU/PG reduction skills, why are we stillstruggling for CPU/PG. There should be an end to the SP sink somewhere...
Because you're not supposed to be able to do everything with one fit. Surprise, multiple fits are your SP sink.
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Sgt Buttscratch
Condotta Rouvenor
2069
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Quote: I should NOT have any problem fitting my suit with all complex modulesand all prototype weapons, grenades and equipment. I should never have to rely on my "racial" bonuses to gain an additional 25% to such and such.
This screams out Entitlement Issue right here. NO. If you earn enough SP to complete all CPU/PG reduction skills, why are we stillstruggling for CPU/PG. There should be an end to the SP sink somewhere... Because you're not supposed to be able to do everything with one fit. Surprise, multiple fits are your SP sink.
I am not trying to do everything, I'm trying to run an assault role with an assault suit, but it's easier for me to fit a ADV caldari logi suit as both an efficient killer while still running support items, easier to currently run an ADV commando on a character with 6m SP. Other suits/roles require more SP through the needs of other equipment, this is not my issue, it's the CPU/PG skills that I think are a joke. I have maxed all, and still see ADV items on my suits.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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