DUST Search - New Player Balance

Bones McGavins wrote:

So I decided to mess around with alts to get the 2 mil sp for them this weekend. This led me to use the starter fits a bunch on low skill characters. The New Player Experience is a lot worse today than it was a year ago. This isnt just due to more players with more SP and ISK running around, the balance itself has skewed towards a very harsh introduction.

The main issues are radar and weapon ranges.

Back when I was a noob, the sharpshooter sill provided a range increase to weapons. This lead to a very broken battlefield for new players and CCP correctly resolved this issue. However, in 1.7 we got the RR which has a pretty massive range increase from the AR. Go to adv or pro RR and it is 2X that of the AR.

Now add in the fact a new player is constantly on the enemy radar. What can they really even do? No amount of player skill can reliably counter 2X range while the enemy can track your position on the radar and kill you if you get close.

Im a decent if not pretty good DUST player. I run advanced gear or std on my scout. But I normally have the character skill to keep me off radar and use a SCR which has enough range to fight back. But put me in a starter character with a starter fit? Im lucky to pull a 1.5.

Imagine a new player who has zero idea what "Youve been scanned" even means. Doesnt know that the HUD tells you what % effectiveness your gun is, and definitely hasnt checked forums or ran personal tests to judge weapon ranges. New players today have it way worse than before, not to mention the fact that the gap is even wider just due to SP increase of the community.

Active Scanner changes will help this. But I think the range gap between rails and ARs should be narrowed a bit.

Note, this isnt a "NERF RRs THEY ARE OP!" post. Or even a "BUFF AR THEY ARE UP". Because I realize at higher level play that range difference isnt as big of a deal. But in pub matches, against a new player, it is a ridiculous advantage.

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Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 566	Posted - 2014.03.17 18:10:00 - [1] - Quote So I decided to mess around with alts to get the 2 mil sp for them this weekend. This led me to use the starter fits a bunch on low skill characters. The New Player Experience is a lot worse today than it was a year ago. This isnt just due to more players with more SP and ISK running around, the balance itself has skewed towards a very harsh introduction. The main issues are radar and weapon ranges. Back when I was a noob, the sharpshooter sill provided a range increase to weapons. This lead to a very broken battlefield for new players and CCP correctly resolved this issue. However, in 1.7 we got the RR which has a pretty massive range increase from the AR. Go to adv or pro RR and it is 2X that of the AR. Now add in the fact a new player is constantly on the enemy radar. What can they really even do? No amount of player skill can reliably counter 2X range while the enemy can track your position on the radar and kill you if you get close. Im a decent if not pretty good DUST player. I run advanced gear or std on my scout. But I normally have the character skill to keep me off radar and use a SCR which has enough range to fight back. But put me in a starter character with a starter fit? Im lucky to pull a 1.5. Imagine a new player who has zero idea what "Youve been scanned" even means. Doesnt know that the HUD tells you what % effectiveness your gun is, and definitely hasnt checked forums or ran personal tests to judge weapon ranges. New players today have it way worse than before, not to mention the fact that the gap is even wider just due to SP increase of the community. Active Scanner changes will help this. But I think the range gap between rails and ARs should be narrowed a bit. Note, this isnt a "NERF RRs THEY ARE OP!" post. Or even a "BUFF AR THEY ARE UP". Because I realize at higher level play that range difference isnt as big of a deal. But in pub matches, against a new player, it is a ridiculous advantage.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1045	Posted - 2014.03.17 18:33:00 - [2] - Quote Add PvE Buff academy
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 824	Posted - 2014.03.17 18:42:00 - [3] - Quote When starting a new character, I don't find the learning curve very steep at all -- because I bring along all the experience that playing and dying has burned into my synapses over the past year. I do feel a bit sorry for those that don't have that experience. But then I think back to my early days in Dust, and the thousands and thousands of deaths that did nothing but present a challenge and an opportunity for learning. I hope the new players have the same attitude on the difficulty of this game and look upon it as a problem waiting to be solved through skill, experience, and teamwork, rather than an insurmountable mountain not worth scaling. CCP should think a bit more deeply about new player retention and making the learning curve less steep. It will only help the game in the long run, IMO.
BARDAS Shining Flame Amarr Empire 815	Posted - 2014.03.17 18:45:00 - [4] - Quote The Academy really should be based on skill points. Everyone under 2 million SP should be in the Academy. However, if a single character on an account has more than 2 million SP then the entire account is locked out of the Academy for good. Would prevent people with a single account creating multiple alts for academy stomping. Admittedly, this wouldn't prevent those with multiple PSN accounts, but it would prevent them from abusing the same account multiple times so once they were out they would have to go and create more and more accounts which can be a pain in the ass.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 566	Posted - 2014.03.17 18:48:00 - [5] - Quote Ok, but personal skill aside. You have a character who can fire 45m, the enemy team is filled with characters firing 90-100m. They can all see you on their radar at all times, you can not see them unless they see you. What do you do? Even fantastic FPS players are pretty boned in that situation. That is the NPE right now. Yeah I know I can get a scanner up and a basic RR to fight back with very little SP investment, but new players wont. The current starter fits dont hold up to the current DUST experience at all anymore. They did a year ago when it was AR 514. But scanners and RR make the starter fits pretty useless. I say this as someone who constantly defends scanners as a great addition to the game and giving scouts a defined role. And as someone hwo realizes RR is weaker than the CBR and SR in skilled hands.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 508	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:09:00 - [6] - Quote There really should be different levels of pub matches with different ISK rewards and restrictions on maximum meta levels on fits. This is what I propose. Level 1: Roughly 50,000 ISK max payout. Meta level restriction of 12 (allowing for all standard gear) Unlock Immediately after leaving The academy. Level 2: Roughly 150,000 ISK max payout. Meta Level restriction of 40 (allowing for all advanced gear gear) No starter fits. Unlocks after 50,000 lifetime WP level 3: Roughly 1,000,000 ISK max payout No metal level restriction No starter fits. [*] Unlocks after 200,000 lifetime WP. We want cake and tea.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 755	Posted - 2014.03.17 19:11:00 - [7] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: So I decided to mess around with alts to get the 2 mil sp for them this weekend. This led me to use the starter fits a bunch on low skill characters. The New Player Experience is a lot worse today than it was a year ago. This isnt just due to more players with more SP and ISK running around, the balance itself has skewed towards a very harsh introduction. The main issues are radar and weapon ranges. Back when I was a noob, the sharpshooter sill provided a range increase to weapons. This lead to a very broken battlefield for new players and CCP correctly resolved this issue. However, in 1.7 we got the RR which has a pretty massive range increase from the AR. Go to adv or pro RR and it is 2X that of the AR. Now add in the fact a new player is constantly on the enemy radar. What can they really even do? No amount of player skill can reliably counter 2X range while the enemy can track your position on the radar and kill you if you get close. Im a decent if not pretty good DUST player. I run advanced gear or std on my scout. But I normally have the character skill to keep me off radar and use a SCR which has enough range to fight back. But put me in a starter character with a starter fit? Im lucky to pull a 1.5. Imagine a new player who has zero idea what "Youve been scanned" even means. Doesnt know that the HUD tells you what % effectiveness your gun is, and definitely hasnt checked forums or ran personal tests to judge weapon ranges. New players today have it way worse than before, not to mention the fact that the gap is even wider just due to SP increase of the community. Active Scanner changes will help this. But I think the range gap between rails and ARs should be narrowed a bit. Note, this isnt a "NERF RRs THEY ARE OP!" post. Or even a "BUFF AR THEY ARE UP". Because I realize at higher level play that range difference isnt as big of a deal. But in pub matches, against a new player, it is a ridiculous advantage. Welcome to CCP's world of balance where long range rifle have the same or more dps than short range rifles.... Back on the subject of a new player, yes it is way more difficult than it was before (e.g. at the time I started pre chromosome). But you can still do good if your know what you are doing: the problem dust leaves many spaces to make severe mistakes, be it in skilling or on the battlefield. Sadly dust does not help new players by explaining what to do. NPE is still terrible and scotty isn't helping either...


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