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[Feedback] The Glaring Issue with Factional Warfare in 1.7

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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7308	Posted - 2014.03.10 18:34:00 - [1] - Quote Ok, I have played FW enough already to see why I keep seeing a situation in which every match you start either has you slaughtering mercs on the opposing side and having them redlined the whole time or has you being the one getting slaughtered and redlined the whole time. Let me give you an example (which is one out of many). I just finished playing a FW match where I was fighting for the Federal Marines against the State Peacekeepers. At first I thought we were going to do well since most members of both teams looked like it consisted of randoms with only 5 Nyain San guys on the opposing side. We were doing well in the beginning of the match and started taking at least 2 of the objectives in Line Harvest coming from the North. But after a while, like 5 minutes in, we started losing the objectives. Suddenly we are redlined... again... for the Federation. I tried breaking through the redline and managed to hack the B objective on their side while making sure to clear their uplinks on their side first. Unfortunately I died but still managed to hack the objective completely flipping it temporarily to our side. As I respawned elsewhere to hack a CRU by C, I noticed no one on my team spawned on B and it was counter hacked already. After hacking the CRU I immediately went towards C and managed to start uploading the virus before I died. Still, no one bothered to spawn in near the area. Even the CRU wasn't used by my team. I felt like I was completely alone and that I was the only one actually doing anything to advance. At the end of the match, I looked at the roster and saw that only 4 other mercs besides me on my team actually did any advancing. The rest of the team was just camping in the redline sometimes dicking around getting picked off by a charged sniper rifle. As for the Nyain San guys on the opposing team, only 2 out of the 4 that were there had any decent scores while everyone else who are mostly randoms did better. This was only a recent example. Yesterday, after constantly losing for the Federal Marines and the Republic Command, I decided to switch over the Amarr and Caldari so I can start AWOXING and hopefully help out the Federal Marines and Republic Command. What I found the hard way was shocking. No matter what I did, despite disrupting the Amarrians and Caldari, the Federal Marines and Republic Command still didn't win. And from what I saw, the team I was trying to AWOX wasn't even organized in any way shape or form. It's just a clusterfuck of mercs and nothing more. This practically revealed more about my faction than the one I was actually AWOXing against. The Federal Marines and Republic Command weren't losing because the opposing team mainly consisted of queue-syncing corp players. They were losing because they just weren't even trying and today as I fought for the Federal Marines again I saw further evidence they weren't trying to advance. I don't know what to make of this. It seems that no matter how many matches I go into for the Gallente and Minmatar, I will always lose because no one on my team wants to try. And here I was thinking Nyain San was bad. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 548	Posted - 2014.03.10 18:57:00 - [2] - Quote All the guys just playing for the winners ran out of ISK Director of ZionTCD Amarr Logi \| Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Scout (SoonGäó) TDBS
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 283	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:06:00 - [3] - Quote My best guess is that the Gallente and Minmatar have become so widely known as "easy win" factions that they have become bloated with players who want to be carried by the rest of their team for an easy victory. Most organized groups who want a "challenge" are fighting on Caldari/Amarr as they have been the losing factions for so long and most decent players go Gallente/Minmatar. Essentially the Gallente/Minmatar has picked up a lot of fat due to expecting easy wins and are unwilling to put forth a sincere effort to win. While this was useful to fill in the gaps organized groups left, now it lacks the number of organized groups it used to. Meanwhile the Caldari/Amarr has groups of players who want to win and are willing to put the effort to do so. They do suffer from inept randoms but it seems, in the greater picture, it doesn't matter as much as it used to.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7308	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:18:00 - [4] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My best guess is that the Gallente and Minmatar have become so widely known as "easy win" factions that they have become bloated with players who want to be carried by the rest of their team for an easy victory. Most organized groups who want a "challenge" are fighting on Caldari/Amarr as they have been the losing factions for so long and most decent players go Gallente/Minmatar. Essentially the Gallente/Minmatar has picked up a lot of fat due to expecting easy wins and are unwilling to put forth a sincere effort to win. While this was useful to fill in the gaps organized groups left, now it lacks the number of organized groups it used to. Meanwhile the Caldari/Amarr has groups of players who want to win and are willing to put the effort to do so. They do suffer from inept randoms but it seems, in the greater picture, it doesn't matter as much as it used to. That's just going to attract more randoms to ride on the wave of easy victories and then we're back to where we started. I have a recommendation for CCP here and that is to impose some kind of ratio in the team between randoms and private squads. Since each team has 16 max players, only 4 of those 16 players should be lone-wolf randoms while the remaining 12 slots are reserved only for private squads and the match should only start with a minimum of 2 squads per team. This is just strictly for FW and in no way, shape or form should this ever be a model for PC or general pub matches. PC matches should stay as they are in terms of team composition. This way, the fight is a little more fair for both sides while still leaving room for some randoms who might later join in and maybe encouraged to fill in any empty spots in the private squads. When a random joins a private squad in the match, the random spot is now reopened for the next random that joins. Of course, there is the alternative of making FW use strictly team deploy mechanics but I don't think that gives any room for randoms who just want to try out FW alone. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 283	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:27:00 - [5] - Quote Personally I think they should leave the current mechanics but instead add a multiplier to the LP payout. The worst your faction is doing, they more they will pay you per victory. This way we let greed be the balancing factor, not forced mechanics.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7308	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:31:00 - [6] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Personally I think they should leave the current mechanics but instead add a multiplier to the LP payout. The worst your faction is doing, they more they will pay you per victory. This way we let greed be the balancing factor, not forced mechanics. OH NO, SORRY! I'm not going to support that. You're basically rewarding failure and I don't like that at all. What I was suggesting is something that encourages teamwork to some degree at least. If you are a company that hired mercs to do the dirty work for you and they are constantly losing, you're not going to pay them extra. You're going to dump them and look for someone else. It's that simple. PS: This idea of yours looks exploitable. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 284	Posted - 2014.03.10 20:31:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Texs Red wrote: Personally I think they should leave the current mechanics but instead add a multiplier to the LP payout. The worst your faction is doing, they more they will pay you per victory. This way we let greed be the balancing factor, not forced mechanics. OH NO, SORRY! I'm not going to support that. You're basically rewarding failure and I don't like that at all. What I was suggesting is something that encourages teamwork to some degree at least. If you are a company that hired mercs to do the dirty work for you and they are constantly losing, you're not going to pay them extra. You're going to dump them and look for someone else. It's that simple. PS: This idea of yours looks exploitable. Fine, if they fail they still get the reduced LP payout and the multiplier would only apply to victories. Don't look at it as paying more to the people who let them fail but being in need a victory such that you are willing to pay more for a win. The end result will be like a dog trying to chase it's own tail: Because the Caldari are pushed back so far, there will be massive payouts for Caldari wins. As such many skilled players will flock to the Caldari flag for juicy payouts and the Gallente will be pushed back viciously. Eventually the Caldari will push the Gallente too far and their payouts will drops and Gallente will rise, causing mercs to switch sides. The cycle repeats itself. There will always be mercs will to jump on the current cash cow. The only way it could be exploited would be if a single group was powerful enough to overwhelm the rest of the community and push the payout really high for one side then switch to ride the wave the other way. However this would be a sign of far greater problems in the community, namely a lack of other organized players willing to counter this exploit.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8078	Posted - 2014.03.10 20:47:00 - [8] - Quote The fact that you AWOX makes you not only a coward but someone not worthy of respect. Face your foes head on rather than from behind an alt. I fail to see how your team not trying is an issue with FW.....Fw has vastly more pressing issues that need dealing with. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7309	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:01:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I fail to see how your team not trying is an issue with FW.....Fw has vastly more pressing issues that need dealing with. Also you are an AWOXer....ewwwww disgusting. I stopped awoxing as soon as I realized how fruitless it was to try to help my faction in this way. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2346	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:19:00 - [10] - Quote The biggest problem lies in the 'no reward when losing' that happens with FW. I've noticed this even as Caldari or Amarr. If it looks like, early on, that your side is going to lose. Everyone swaps out of their expensive fits and derps till the end of the match to collect their 70ish LP. There is no incentive to continue to try if you know you are going to lose, you're just throwing good money after bad. A simple mechanic fix rewarding LP payout based on damage dealt to the MCC would help this tremendously I feel. People could be like... well... we're gonna lose but lets do as much as we can to get that LP bonus up.

General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 91	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:23:00 - [11] - Quote i hate how Gallente/Minmatar is considered 'easy mode'. i dont fight for them because its easy, i fight for them because i fight for democracy and freedom. Assault Gk.0 Gallente Federation Patriot General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
Disciple Of Kesha The Order of Swag 46	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:37:00 - [12] - Quote General12912 wrote: i hate how Gallente/Minmatar is considered 'easy mode'. i dont fight for them because its easy, i fight for them because i fight for democracy and freedom. Democracy is overrated. Or, to be more blunt, can you show me an inalienable human right? I'd like to mount one on my wall - Yun Hee Ryeon
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7311	Posted - 2014.03.10 23:46:00 - [13] - Quote Disciple Of Kesha wrote: General12912 wrote: i hate how Gallente/Minmatar is considered 'easy mode'. i dont fight for them because its easy, i fight for them because i fight for democracy and freedom. Democracy is overrated. It must be so easy to crush the freedom of others when it suits your convenience, Amarrian. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor


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