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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
544
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Posted - 2014.03.10 13:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm basically copying this over from the EVE forums, because our EVE-DUST link doesn't eve support integrated forums, which is bullshit. Hopefully it gives you some perspective on EVE player's attitudes towards micro-transactions, and clears up any misconceptions about DUST's current micro-transaction model. As a side note, EVE currently has a micro-transaction model for strictly vanity items, and that will be expanding with vanity paint jobs for ships. EVE's micro-transaction model was born in a violent orgy of monument shooting rage.
I think there's a general misconception about DUST's micro-transaction model. EVE players, unfamiliar with micro-transactions for anything other than strictly vanity items, especially tend to confuse DUST as a pay to win game. This is simply not the case. Take this as an example.
Abrazzar wrote:Isn't DUST F2P P2W?
Some thoughts on this.
DUST is not pay to win. It's pay to access stuff earlier than you normally would be able to. An AUR Assault ck.0 has exactly the same stats as an ISK Assault ck.0. The only difference is that you can use the AUR version with Caldari Assault III instead of V for the ISK version. Actually, if you use an ISK Assault ck.0 it means you must be at Caldari Assault V and if I am using an AUR Assault ck.0 I could have Caldari Assault as low as III. In that case, while our suits are identical, you would have a better shield recharge rate and more effective shield extenders (currently as of 1.7) than I would due to your higher skill.
An EVE equivalent would be have an AUR Marauder with exactly the same stats as a regular Marauder, but with skill requirements being something like only needed Racial Battleship V and not needing to train the other skills to inject Marauder.
It would be terrible, and EVE players would hate it, and 'instant gratification' and other marketing buzzword bullshit. DUST players in general are too FPS-y to know what to think about the state of their pay to access stuff earlier than you normally would be able to game. They generally think it's pay to win, and get giant gamer boners when they kill someone in AUR gear. They don't seem to realize, as already mentioned, that an AUR target could generally be an easier target to kill than an ISK target. Maybe some dude just has a ton of cash and doesn't have the time to hit his skill cap every week to get the skills needed to use that ISK PRO gear.
For what it's worth, the only thing I spend AUR on in DUST (and likely ever will spend AUR on) are SP Boosters, which equates to a 15 USD / mo subscription. But I wait to by the AUR when there's a special promo or sale, I buy larger AUR packs so I get effectively more AUR / USD, and I buy the boosters themselves when they're on sale or special promo.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Jack Kittinger
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
175
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Isn't DUST F2P P2W? Some thoughts on this. DUST is not pay to win.
Seems legit
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: They generally think it's pay to win, and get giant gamer boners when they kill someone in AUR gear. They don't seem to realize, as already mentioned, that an AUR target could generally be an easier target to kill than an ISK target
Remember when contact nades were AUR only? just messing with ya XD
yea AUR gear should mean that the user is a scrub, still my boner stands tall and strong for it is not a feat of skill, to kill an AUR using scrub, but the knowledge that it costed somebody real money (even if it is 2 or 7 cents, if 2,000AUR=1 buck)
personally if I get sprung from destroying AUR gear it's cause I love seeing someone stupid enough to spend actual money in a game where focused fire from 2 people grant you a sure death no matter how proto you are, for anyone about to say I can take on more than two ppl out in no time just read again: Focused Fire with TTK so low any gear is not worth $.000002 let alone cents.
Proud winner of the 'Templar BPO Raffle' by Castor Crave!!
Lucky Number 29
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5566
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
I find the conspiracy that MMO and FPS players have completely different mindsets; and how one is superior to the other quite hilarious indeed.
It's like a form of racism.
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Cruell Grimsman
Purple People Inc.
15
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I find the conspiracy that MMO and FPS players have completely different mindsets; and how one is superior to the other quite hilarious indeed.
It's like a form of racism.
I think you mean elitism  |
Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1300
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I find the conspiracy that MMO and FPS players have completely different mindsets; and how one is superior to the other quite hilarious indeed.
It's like a form of racism.
This game is based on Racism! Look at the Amarr and Minmatar!!
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
106
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes and no OP.
Sure you can't technically get better stats than if you were to max out your skills and be able to buy the gear. However, the entire structure is stacked heavily towards it. The shields go from 22/33/66. A twenty five percent increase at advanced level to DOUBLE at proto. Which would be fine but to go from level 4 to level 5 is the same price as to go from level 1 to level 4 in the skill.
It is easy to get to an advanced level in everything you need to be competitive; however, it literally takes 4 times longer to get to proto level which is TWICE as strong as the advanced. This is all very fine and nice for the vets who don't mind because they have 30 Mil SP. But for the new players, they are literally looking at 8+ months to get proto or 2 months and AU.
That is a helluva long difference. In essence you can get beaten down for 6+ months or use the early to "pay to win" model at 2.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
546
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I find the conspiracy that MMO and FPS players have completely different mindsets; and how one is superior to the other quite hilarious indeed.
It's like a form of racism.
I'm not sure how you found that conspiracy in my thread, and simultaneously failed to address any point in the OP. Do you feel like DUST is P2W or not? Do you agree with my reasoning or not?
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3072
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Boosters are only purchasable with Aurum.
Thus, Aurum buys SP.
SP not only grants you access to better equipment, but it also bolsters your passive skills which make you "better".
It gives you an unnatural advantage (several, actually) over another player who started the exact same time you did.
No Boosters purchasable with ISK equals P2W.
I GÖú Kittens.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
546
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:Yes and no OP.
Sure you can't technically get better stats than if you were to max out your skills and be able to buy the gear. However, the entire structure is stacked heavily towards it. The shields go from 22/33/66. A twenty five percent increase at advanced level to DOUBLE at proto. Which would be fine but to go from level 4 to level 5 is the same price as to go from level 1 to level 4 in the skill.
It is easy to get to an advanced level in everything you need to be competitive; however, it literally takes 4 times longer to get to proto level which is TWICE as strong as the advanced. This is all very fine and nice for the vets who don't mind because they have 30 Mil SP. But for the new players, they are literally looking at 8+ months to get proto or 2 months and AU.
That is a helluva long difference. In essence you can get beaten down for 6+ months or use the early to "pay to win" model at 2.
And like I mentioned, someone using AUR to access gear earlier will likely not have the (character) skills to back it up. That Complex Shield Extender you mentioned? 66HP was it? Well the skill to get it also gives you a 2% per level bonus to HP from the extender. That's 10% for the ISK Complex Shield Extender, which means you get 72.6HP from it.
Assuming you get level 3 and then hop into AUR Complex Extenders, you'd get a 6% bonus on top of 66HP. That 70HP. (Which is **** all, and extenders need a slight buff, but that's neither here nor there.) Combine that with multiple extenders, and the bonus for the Caldari Assault (bonus to shield module efficacy) and you do come up with a significant gap. It might be small, but if you've ever survived a gun fight even once with 0/0 Shields/Armor, it mattered to you.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
547
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Boosters are only purchasable with Aurum.
Thus, Aurum buys SP.
SP not only grants you access to better equipment, but it also bolsters your passive skills which make you "better".
It gives you an unnatural advantage (several, actually) over another player who started the exact same time you did.
No Boosters purchasable with ISK equals P2W.
This is another "early access" issue. Is the SP from boosters somehow better from regular SP? It's not. There's no unnatural advantage about skills that are naturally available to everyone.
You've literally misrepresented DUST as a pay to win game, which is exactly the misconception I try to dispel by making this thread.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Onesimus Tarsus
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1483
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
There's an algorithm un DUST, and it kicks in whenever AUR gear meets ISK gear. It goes like this:
AUR>ISK.
Shhh, don't tell anyone.
Unless you're just addicted to wetsuit paperdolls...
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Shadow Archeus
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
320
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Boosters are only purchasable with Aurum.
Thus, Aurum buys SP.
SP not only grants you access to better equipment, but it also bolsters your passive skills which make you "better".
It gives you an unnatural advantage (several, actually) over another player who started the exact same time you did.
No Boosters purchasable with ISK equals P2W.
Actually I kinda agree here
But is it seriously a problem that needs to get fixed.....not right now there's other problems that need attention
Besides I mop up aur proto suits in a std heavy frame just fine
Real heavies use lasers
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TechMechMeds
SWAMPERIUM
2828
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Its only partially pay to win if you can afford 1000 suits+mods a month.
Here's an elitist tip, get a dropsuit skill to level 4, then simply pay for the suits so you can concentrate on other things.
My rendonasix char has level 4 for min scout, sentinel and amarr assault and I'll continue to buy the proto suits until I take the char a bit more seriously. 1000 a month gives you enough to go berserk and not have to care, this also makes for great isk profit while running proto constantly.
If you are like me (loaded) then you can buy mods as well and proto stomp with whatever you want while farming isk provided you have at least skilled into level 3 to unlock the aurum suits.
I also run proto min assault and proto cal assault on this char, all aurum but I have the skills to level 4.
You can go with the lp store but that's Max effort and boring, just buy them.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Dust on the ps4 asap please
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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TechMechMeds
SWAMPERIUM
2829
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
In open beta for example, I got logistics skill level 4 and then bought aurum proto logi suits until uprising. This allowed me to try out loads of things and become effective much quicker.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Dust on the ps4 asap please
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3075
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Boosters are only purchasable with Aurum.
Thus, Aurum buys SP.
SP not only grants you access to better equipment, but it also bolsters your passive skills which make you "better".
It gives you an unnatural advantage (several, actually) over another player who started the exact same time you did.
No Boosters purchasable with ISK equals P2W. Is the SP from boosters somehow better from regular SP?
50% better, actually.
Giving real world money to put yourself ahead of another player is in definition Pay to Win.
P2W doesn't always mean "$5 will grant you the Big, OHKO weapon".
I GÖú Kittens.
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