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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7269
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Posted - 2014.03.09 02:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
US Army M1 Abrams Tank
For the record, I'm not a tank pilot at all. But before you brush me off as some inexperienced player who knows nothing about tanking, hear me out.
What you see in the video linked above is a recorded demonstration of a US Army M1 Abrams Tank in Mississippi where you see it speeding by (blowing the stop sign like a Miami driver of course) passing the crowd, stopping in the distance, doing an about face, coming back, stopping in front of the crowd, and seeing it accelerate.
First let's look at the similarity here. It's fast just like the tanks I see rolling in Dust 514. Really fast for its weight and size. That's it.
Now for the main difference. It's acceleration. If you look closely, it took a while to reach top speed but it got to its top speed eventually. It just needed distance. Kind of like how a Delorian needs plenty of space to reach 88 MPH. Tanks in Dust on the other hand don't accelerate like that. Instead, they're accelerating like a bat out of hell.
As you can see, I don't have a problem with the speed of the tanks in Dust. The speed is just fine in fact considering that these tanks in Dust are about 20,000+ years into the future. The only problem I have with them is their acceleration. They are reaching top speed too quickly for their size and mass. Their acceleration should be reduced so that tank drivers need more time and distance to reach their current max speed.
This can give AVers at least a better fighting chance against tanks. But this means that tank pilots will just not stop once they enter the fight and will likely result in drive-by tactics because of they stop or slow down they risk making themselves vulnerable to attack.
What do you think? Keep the speed but adjust acceleration to match the mass and weight?
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
663
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Posted - 2014.03.09 03:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nuclear engine vs combustion?
Also I'm gonna say it again here like I did in all the other 40 threads....
Webifiers --Look them up, cause they are coming someday, which makes this request a redundancy that will probably never be taken seriously.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
444
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Posted - 2014.03.09 03:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes and no, the tanks in dust should be more technologically advanced than what we have now, no question about that, but 20000 years is a bit of a stretch. If you know about EvE's history the colonies went through a dark age after the gate closed, going all the way back to near stoneage levels, if they even managed to survive at all. The big 4 Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar, discover space travel and throw all their money into that (amarr kinda forced space travel onto the minmatar they were still just exploring their own galaxy when the amarr showed up and "enlightened" them)
With the sudden interest in space travel, and hence combat ground technology probably took a bit of a hit in advancement, why worry about tanks on the ground when you can just bombard a planet from space into submission. Add into the the advent of empyrians (aka capsuleers) and more tech is thrown to space and less and less to ground warfare. Not to say that ground warfare wasn't important but empyrians being unable to die pushed the focus of technology to their area.
Add in the dust mercs and there is a sudden push for advancement in ground warfare but this push is rather recent, most of our tech is either new weapons that are too dangerous for normal people to use or an old vehicle with starship grade weapon systems strapped onto it.
TLDR: yes our tanks should be more advanced than the M1 abrams, however its nowhere near as advanced as amount of time between earth and eve is due to loss of technology and advancement from the dark age periods. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7269
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 03:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Nuclear engine vs combustion?
I don't know if that is any factor in this. For all we know the difference could be in the drive train, but still the acceleration needs to be adjusted but the max speed maintained.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
811
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Posted - 2014.03.09 03:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:US Army M1 Abrams TankFor the record, I'm not a tank pilot at all. But before you brush me off as some inexperienced player who knows nothing about tanking, hear me out. What you see in the video linked above is a recorded demonstration of a US Army M1 Abrams Tank in Mississippi where you see it speeding by (blowing the stop sign like a Miami driver of course) passing the crowd, stopping in the distance, doing an about face, coming back, stopping in front of the crowd, and seeing it accelerate. First let's look at the similarity here. It's fast just like the tanks I see rolling in Dust 514. Really fast for its weight and size. That's it. Now for the main difference. It's acceleration. If you look closely, it took a while to reach top speed but it got to its top speed eventually. It just needed distance. Kind of like how a Delorian needs plenty of space to reach 88 MPH. Tanks in Dust on the other hand don't accelerate like that. Instead, they're accelerating like a bat out of hell. As you can see, I don't have a problem with the speed of the tanks in Dust. The speed is just fine in fact considering that these tanks in Dust are about 20,000+ years into the future. The only problem I have with them is their acceleration. They are reaching top speed too quickly for their size and mass. Their acceleration should be reduced so that tank drivers need more time and distance to reach their current max speed. This can give AVers at least a better fighting chance against tanks. But this means that tank pilots will just not stop once they enter the fight and will likely result in drive-by tactics because of they stop or slow down they risk making themselves vulnerable to attack. What do you think? Keep the speed but adjust acceleration to match the mass and weight?
Yes.
Inertia counts.
Accelerating that fast is outrageous.
While we're at it, we should look at how fast someone can get into any vehicle and blast across the field. It'll stop the "Fatty in the HAV Rapid Response Team" being overused.
Munch
Minmatar Patriot (Level 7)
Dedicated Sniper
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7269
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Posted - 2014.03.09 03:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote:Yes and no, the tanks in dust should be more technologically advanced than what we have now, no question about that, but 20000 years is a bit of a stretch. If you know about EvE's history the colonies went through a dark age after the gate closed, going all the way back to near stoneage levels, if they even managed to survive at all. The big 4 Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar, discover space travel and throw all their money into that (amarr kinda forced space travel onto the minmatar they were still just exploring their own galaxy when the amarr showed up and "enlightened" them)
With the sudden interest in space travel, and hence combat ground technology probably took a bit of a hit in advancement, why worry about tanks on the ground when you can just bombard a planet from space into submission. Add into the the advent of empyrians (aka capsuleers) and more tech is thrown to space and less and less to ground warfare. Not to say that ground warfare wasn't important but empyrians being unable to die pushed the focus of technology to their area.
Add in the dust mercs and there is a sudden push for advancement in ground warfare but this push is rather recent, most of our tech is either new weapons that are too dangerous for normal people to use or an old vehicle with starship grade weapon systems strapped onto it.
TLDR: yes our tanks should be more advanced than the M1 abrams, however its nowhere near as advanced as amount of time between earth and eve is due to loss of technology and advancement from the dark age periods.
Actually, the Jovians maintained their technology even after the collapse of the Eve gate all those thousands of years ago. The Amarr in the meantime used military technology to expand their territories (enslaving in the name of their Catholic God) after rediscovering space flight. The Amarrians tried to conquer the Jovians and sent out their Imperial Navy Fleet to take control, but instead the Imperial Fleet got demolished by just about 5 Jovian ships no less. The Jovians were that advanced.
The Jovians were also working alongside the Ishukone Corporation and a few others in disseminating their own technology thus allowing a massive jump in technological progress. The pod technology used by Eve Online players is one of those technologies shared. That was just 200 years ago. Since then, technology has accelerated especially with the discovery of Sleeper tech which, in just a few short months a few years ago, saw a massive boom in proliferation of Tech 3 strategic cruisers. Even the implants that you and I are using as Mercs are derived from sleeper tech and that was just in a few short years since their discovery.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7270
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Posted - 2014.03.09 03:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Nuclear engine vs combustion?
Also I'm gonna say it again here like I did in all the other 40 threads....
Webifiers --Look them up, cause they are coming someday, which makes this request a redundancy that will probably never be taken seriously.
I know their coming. But right now it doesn't seem like we'll see them any time this year so my suggestion would have to do in the meantime.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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ads alt
135
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Posted - 2014.03.09 03:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Nuclear engine vs combustion?
Also I'm gonna say it again here like I did in all the other 40 threads....
Webifiers --Look them up, cause they are coming someday, which makes this request a redundancy that will probably never be taken seriously. And if you believe that, you deserve a big flopping wiener in your face
1.8 will release...
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1005
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Posted - 2014.03.09 04:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote: ... snip Anti Tanker QQ ... BS, have you seen the nutty physics in EVE? Because nothing in EVE makes sense and nothing in a Science Fiction Video Game about Immortal Mercs in SPAAACE has to be accurate.
So why do all you meat bags from 2014 Earth give a random rat turd about this?
This Is A Video Game! Not A Simulation! Play The F*ing Game!
If you want simulation get out of the space dust. World of Tanks sounds like a much better solution for QQ of this level. Seriously.
This is not a very good FPS and is riddled with problems. It is a 5/10 FPS about Immortal Mercs In Space and some of them drive Tanks. Some of those tank drivers are actually quite good at it. While many AV players, if not most, want a Push To Win Button that will Kill That Freaking Tank Right Over There.
Why don't you guy do what has been pushed at me? Sit down and see how 1.8 turns out? Then AV QQs should be legion.
HTFU and PTFG
And so it goes.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
664
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Posted - 2014.03.09 04:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
ads alt wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Nuclear engine vs combustion?
Also I'm gonna say it again here like I did in all the other 40 threads....
Webifiers --Look them up, cause they are coming someday, which makes this request a redundancy that will probably never be taken seriously. And if you believe that, you deserve a big flopping wiener in your face
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=289342#post289342 Oh dear, looks like a Dev post to your crotch.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7270
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 04:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Maken Tosch wrote: ... snip Anti Tanker QQ ... BS, have you seen the nutty physics in EVE? Because nothing in EVE makes sense and nothing in a Science Fiction Video Game about Immortal Mercs in SPAAACE has to be accurate. So why do all you meat bags from 2014 Earth give a random rat turd about this? This Is A Video Game! Not A Simulation! Play The F*ing Game! If you want simulation get out of the space dust. World of Tanks sounds like a much better solution for QQ of this level. Seriously. This is not a very good FPS and is riddled with problems. It is a 5/10 FPS about Immortal Mercs In Space and some of them drive Tanks. Some of those tank drivers are actually quite good at it. While many AV players, if not most, want a Push To Win Button that will Kill That Freaking Tank Right Over There. Why don't you guy do what has been pushed at me? Sit down and see how 1.8 turns out? Then AV QQs should be legion. HTFU and PTFG
I'm not here to start a heated debate with you.
What this is mainly about is balance. If you want the tanks to be as they are, I would be fine with that if CCP hinted at introducing stasis webifiers sooner rather than soon. But that seems unlikely even for this year since none of us have heard a word from CCP on that for a very long time now. If they do introduce it, I bet it will be after the secondary market arrives.
In the meantime, we need something to address the ridiculous acceleration of these tanks. As I said already, the speed is perfect for their class and purpose. It's just the time it takes for them to reach max speed needs to be adjusted. Again, I'm not going to get into a heated debate over that. I'm trying to keep this civil as I don't want the GMs snooping around with their locks.
Also, what recommendation would you make to address the situation with tanks WITHOUT making them gimped while still making them fun and affordable?
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7270
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 05:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Does anyone else here have any more recommendations?
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
1954
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Posted - 2014.03.09 06:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Nuclear engine vs combustion?
Also I'm gonna say it again here like I did in all the other 40 threads....
Webifiers --Look them up, cause they are coming someday, which makes this request a redundancy that will probably never be taken seriously. Someday isn't now.
And now their OP. And that needs fixing.
It be like saying "The TAR is OP, but since we're bringing a few new guns that are also OP, its fine. We'll balance it when we get those."
Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1542
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Posted - 2014.03.09 06:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
At least the militia flux capacitors got nerfed. Good heavens! |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7246
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Posted - 2014.03.09 06:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
It's also loud as all hell.
There's no way that a tank like that could sneak up on you. And it's true for Battlefield too.
Only in DUST can vehicles be stealthy.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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