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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
262
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Posted - 2014.03.08 08:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the new dropsuit stats released for 1.8, people are worrying more than ever that the Assault suit will be heavily overshadowed by other suits. We're all aware of the current problem with Slayer Logis, and while I'm still greatly excited for it, 1.8 doesn't really seem to be solving this problem. It feels like the Assault suit hasn't really had a defined role to fill for a while. So I got to thinking: what should the designated role of Assault suits be?
For a good starting place, let's check the in-game description:
Quote:The Assault dropsuit is a versatile front-line combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility and sufficient equipment hard points for mission-specific customizations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a moment's notice. Its ability to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear makes it the most adaptable suit on the battlefield. So, as has been said time and time again, it seems the basic idea of the Assault suit is to truly be the "jack of all trades, master of none". So it should be the least niche suit; able to perform many different roles effectively, but not really excelling at any one. But I'd like to take this a step farther, specifically analyzing this line:
Quote:Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a moment's notice. This seems to imply that the Assault suit is also good at switching locations quickly, as well as being prepared for many different scenarios. From this, we could extrapolate that Assault suits are meant to be very good at dictating when and where their engagements happen, and always being able to switch to a more advantageous position during engagements. Given all this, I've come up with this as a more solid designated role: The Adaptable Shock Trooper. Able to move swiftly both between locations and their role on the battlefield. The suit with unmatched flexibility, also able to get in quick and hit the enemy hard and fast when need-be.
So, now that we've got an idea, how do we change the current Assault suit to fill this role?
Step 1: Modules- In order to truly be the most flexible and adaptable suit, I believe that the Assault suit needs to have the most module slots of any suit. If this weren't true before, I'd say it definitely is with 1.8 on the rise, and all the other suits finding specific niches to fill. In order to avoid raising the overall power scale of the game, I'd recommend lowering all Logi suits' total slot count by 1, and then raising the Assault suits to have 1 more than Logis overall. Having the most modules available means you can customize your suit for whatever specific scenario you want, or make some hodgepodge in between specific specializations. This reinforces the flexibility aspect of the suit's role.
Step 2: Bonuses- So let's take a quick look at the current 1.8 Assault suit bonuses: Quote:Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. The overall idea of these bonuses seems to be allowing the Assault suit to spend more time shooting, and less time having to worry about ammo conservation/heat build-up/reloading/etc. This would seem to fit in nicely with the shock trooper aspect of the suit, allowing you to keep on the move and keep hitting targets from different sides without having to stop to worry about your ammo situation. However, while I feel that the Minmatar and Amarr bonuses achieve this quite feel, I have some discrepancies with the other two.
The Caldari bonus, while in some sense reducing the time spent not firing, doesn't actually really allow more continuous fire though, or allow you to more effectively dictate where your fights are happening. I would prefer either a reduction to the charge-up time of railgun weaponry (Note: this option also requires an increase of the RR charge-up time to at least 0.5 seconds, which I believe needs to happen anyway) or an increase to the effective ranges of railgun weaponry (with a correspondingly less steep falloff, at least to the effective range). Either of these would allow the Caldari Assault to focus less on ammo conservation, as well as better controlling fights.
The Gallente bonus isn't terrible. It should effectively allow you to hit with more of your shots, meaning that you'll have to fire less overall. In some sense, this would mean that more continuous fire within one clip is possible. In addition, the bonus affecting your hip-fire accuracy reinforces the mobile shock trooper role, actively encouraging you to fire from the hip while staying on the move. So, yea like I said, not terrible. Although I'm also not sure it's necessarily the best. If anyone has a better suggestion, please post it below.
Anyways, that's it. Gee...that ended up longer than I expected. So, what's everyone think?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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AmlSeb
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
44
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Posted - 2014.03.08 09:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Assault is going to be the slayer suit: High damage output and high mobility but a glass cannon. That description of it being the versatile suit is a last remain of the early Closed BETA where there were only a scout, a logi, a heavy and an assault dropsuit. All other suits had their roles so the assault got what today medium frames are.
@AmlSeb on Twitter
BPO exchange: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1852003
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
271
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Posted - 2014.03.08 09:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
AmlSeb wrote:The Assault is going to be the slayer suit: High damage output and high mobility but a glass cannon. That description of it being the versatile suit is a last remain of the early Closed BETA where there were only a scout, a logi, a heavy and an assault dropsuit. All other suits had their roles so the assault got what today medium frames are. That's certainly a possibility, and not one I'm necessarily against. But keep in mind, with the idea I'm presenting, you could make a very effective slayer build with an Assault suit. You would just also possess far more flexibility.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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AmlSeb
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
44
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Posted - 2014.03.08 09:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:AmlSeb wrote:The Assault is going to be the slayer suit: High damage output and high mobility but a glass cannon. That description of it being the versatile suit is a last remain of the early Closed BETA where there were only a scout, a logi, a heavy and an assault dropsuit. All other suits had their roles so the assault got what today medium frames are. That's certainly a possibility, and not one I'm necessarily against. But keep in mind, with the idea I'm presenting, you could make a very effective slayer build with an Assault suit. You would just also possess far more flexibility.
That for sure but that's not how it should be. I mean flexibility on the field, quickly switch targets or retreat easily but like you're presenting it you mean flexibility in fitting which is the role of basic frames.
@AmlSeb on Twitter
BPO exchange: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1852003
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1035
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Posted - 2014.03.08 16:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
The role of the assault suit is to press objectives as a team in a coordinated attack. They are relatively fast with decent HP. Heavy suits are too slow to keep up with the advance and are better at defending and pushing forward to break a stalemate with logi support. Scouts tend to work on the periphery, slipping in and out of enemy positions to wreak havock. I think all suits are pretty well defined.
Best PvE idea ever!
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RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
534
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Posted - 2014.03.08 17:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:The role of the assault suit is to press objectives as a team in a coordinated attack. They are relatively fast with decent HP. Heavy suits are too slow to keep up with the advance and are better at defending and pushing forward to break a stalemate with logi support. Scouts tend to work on the periphery, slipping in and out of enemy positions to wreak havock. I think all suits are pretty well defined. I have to disagree. Why are assaults being used to push objectives over other suits? Right now it's because they can carry equipment and have relatively good HP compared with other suits. The exception here is the logi, but they sacrifice hp and speed so that's okay.
However, you almost have no reason to play as an assault over a basic medium frame and even less reason to choose one over a logi. This situation will be exacerbated by 1.8 in that scouts will have comparable stats, be able to carry two lots of equipment and also get a bonus to cloaking.
Unless the assaults get two equipment slots or a bit more PG/CPU then their role will not be GÇ£fulfillableGÇ¥ in any way. They will be bettered by literally everything. |
Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
281
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Posted - 2014.03.08 20:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
AmlSeb wrote:That for sure but that's not how it should be. I mean flexibility on the field, quickly switch targets or retreat easily but like you're presenting it you mean flexibility in fitting which is the role of basic frames. Actually I mean both flexibility in fitting and on the battlefield. And I think that the former can help to achieve the latter. Having more slots means you can cover more bases, allowing you to have a suit prepared for several different scenarios at a moment's notice.
RINON114 wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The role of the assault suit is to press objectives as a team in a coordinated attack. They are relatively fast with decent HP. Heavy suits are too slow to keep up with the advance and are better at defending and pushing forward to break a stalemate with logi support. Scouts tend to work on the periphery, slipping in and out of enemy positions to wreak havock. I think all suits are pretty well defined. I have to disagree. Why are assaults being used to push objectives over other suits? Right now it's because they can carry equipment and have relatively good HP compared with other suits. The exception here is the logi, but they sacrifice hp and speed so that's okay. However, you almost have no reason to play as an assault over a basic medium frame and even less reason to choose one over a logi. This situation will be exacerbated by 1.8 in that scouts will have comparable stats, be able to carry two lots of equipment and also get a bonus to cloaking. Unless the assaults get two equipment slots or a bit more PG/CPU then their role will not be GÇ£fulfillableGÇ¥ in any way. They will be bettered by literally everything. This is more or less what I'm afraid of, that any role the Assault could perform will be overshadowed by other suits in 1.8. That's why I'm trying to give it a more defined role.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
813
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Posted - 2014.03.08 20:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
I always thought of the assaults as pawns on a chessboard. They go were needed and is the first to make a move.
Assaults are used over other suits because;
Scouts spend a lot of time flanking. dealing with logis, and cannot deal with multiple opponents in a head on fire fight. Heavies take too long to get there and are better fit for defending a point. Logis are too busy supporting the heavies or messing with enemy scouts. Pilots can't hack while in there vehicle.
Assaults are fast enough to flank like a scout, can tank themselves kind of like a heavy, able to use equipment, can easily fit AV, and can dish out damage like nobody's business. Sure they can't do those things better then other suits but that's why there is that "Master of none" part.
I do, for the most part, think that logis are currently too flexible and that needs to be fixed as they are currently stepping on all of the other classes toes(yet they complained about scouts getting a second equip).
Scout Tactician
Dance puppets, DANCE!
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
281
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Posted - 2014.03.08 20:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:I always thought of the assaults as pawns on a chessboard. They go were needed and is the first to make a move.
Assaults are used over other suits because;
Scouts spend a lot of time flanking. dealing with logis, and cannot deal with multiple opponents in a head on fire fight. Heavies take too long to get there and are better fit for defending a point. Logis are too busy supporting the heavies or messing with enemy scouts. Pilots can't hack while in there vehicle.
Assaults are fast enough to flank like a scout, can tank themselves kind of like a heavy, able to use equipment, can easily fit AV, and can dish out damage like nobody's business. Sure they can't do those things better then other suits but that's why there is that "Master of none" part.
I do, for the most part, think that logis are currently too flexible and that needs to be fixed as they are currently stepping on all of the other classes toes(yet they complained about scouts getting a second equip).
I like the idea of Assaults being the suits that get in first and hit hard, like a shock trooper, as I mentioned. But I don't think that in 1.8 they'll necessarily be the best at this role. I'm hoping my idea would alleviate this.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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AmlSeb
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
45
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Posted - 2014.03.08 21:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:AmlSeb wrote:That for sure but that's not how it should be. I mean flexibility on the field, quickly switch targets or retreat easily but like you're presenting it you mean flexibility in fitting which is the role of basic frames. Actually I mean both flexibility in fitting and on the battlefield. And I think that the former can help to achieve the latter. Having more slots means you can cover more bases, allowing you to have a suit prepared for several different scenarios at a moment's notice.
But allowing them rhat many slots will only lead to damage mod stacking or tanks with like 1500 hp like it used to be with logis.
@AmlSeb on Twitter
BPO exchange: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1852003
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Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2014.03.08 22:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
AmlSeb wrote:Summ Dude wrote:AmlSeb wrote:That for sure but that's not how it should be. I mean flexibility on the field, quickly switch targets or retreat easily but like you're presenting it you mean flexibility in fitting which is the role of basic frames. Actually I mean both flexibility in fitting and on the battlefield. And I think that the former can help to achieve the latter. Having more slots means you can cover more bases, allowing you to have a suit prepared for several different scenarios at a moment's notice. But allowing them rhat many slots will only lead to damage mod stacking or tanks with like 1500 hp like it used to be with logis.
No one thing is going to fix the Assault/Logi dynamic. Having a high/dual tank needs to addressed as an individual problem, the outcome of which would affect how Assaults play their role. With Damage Mods being changed in 1.8, it's difficult to tell how effective stacking them will be.
Also, having now looked at the speed profiles of Assaults and Logi's, I feel that their HP's should be switched, as beffitting the "High HP, Slow Speed-High Speed, Low HP" dynamic present in the rest of the game. This should also help with the high/dual tank concern, but allow the Assault to remain versatile, in keeping with Summ Dude's idea. |
Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
284
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Posted - 2014.03.09 04:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:AmlSeb wrote:Summ Dude wrote:AmlSeb wrote:That for sure but that's not how it should be. I mean flexibility on the field, quickly switch targets or retreat easily but like you're presenting it you mean flexibility in fitting which is the role of basic frames. Actually I mean both flexibility in fitting and on the battlefield. And I think that the former can help to achieve the latter. Having more slots means you can cover more bases, allowing you to have a suit prepared for several different scenarios at a moment's notice. But allowing them rhat many slots will only lead to damage mod stacking or tanks with like 1500 hp like it used to be with logis. No one thing is going to fix the Assault/Logi dynamic. Having a high/dual tank needs to addressed as an individual problem, the outcome of which would affect how Assaults play their role. With Damage Mods being changed in 1.8, it's difficult to tell how effective stacking them will be. Also, having now looked at the speed profiles of Assaults and Logi's, I feel that their HP's should be switched, as beffitting the "High HP, Slow Speed-High Speed, Low HP" dynamic present in the rest of the game. This should also help with the high/dual tank concern, but allow the Assault to remain versatile, in keeping with Summ Dude's idea. Yea, pretty much what Hagintora said. Anyway, I'm just fine with Assault suits being able to make effective slayer fits. Especially given the assault rifles and damage mod nerfs in 1.8. Even running 5 Complex Damage Mods will only give about a 15% bonus, with Proficiency now affecting only one HP type. Doesn't seem all that out of hand.
If Assaults and Logis had their total slots completely balanced, I'd actually be fine with Logis gaining slightly more HP while Assaults gain slightly more speed/stamina. I actually might add something about it to the OP...
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
284
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Posted - 2014.03.09 04:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'd also like to redirect everyone to this thread, as apparently everyone just reads General Discussions.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
482
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Posted - 2014.03.09 05:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
honestly i think that cals should have a shield bonus and gals an armor bonus
Proud Christian
Free stuff for the next account you make:)
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
284
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Posted - 2014.03.09 05:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:honestly i think that cals should have a shield bonus and gals an armor bonus While those would in some way be useful for the suits, I don't think they really do anything to reinforce the central role of the Assault suit.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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