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Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 274	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:38:00 - [1] - Quote AR in 1.8 48 meters optimal, 78 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 48 meters optimal, 66 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Rail Rifle in 1.8 78 optimal, 102 effective 397.6 DPS at prototype 2,171 damage per clip Assault Combat Rifle in 1.8 54 meters optimal, 84 effective 420 DPS at prototype 1,428 damage per clip Assault Scrambler Rifle in 1.8 60 optimal, 90 effective 420.5 DPS at prototype 2,574 damage per clip
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 718	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:40:00 - [2] - Quote Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 40 meters optimal, 65 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 40 meters optimal, 55 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Yes I think this is what sticks out... i think there's an error in the numbers or just an error in judgement. ;)
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1240	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:42:00 - [3] - Quote Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 40 meters optimal, 65 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 40 meters optimal, 55 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Where did you get those stats from? The only thing we've seen today for all the weapons is damage. The rifles, and HMG I believe, have a much bigger magnifying glass on them. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Ripley Riley 811	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:43:00 - [4] - Quote Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 40 meters optimal, 65 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 40 meters optimal, 55 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. The MagSec SMG has a charge up time (0.30, higher than the RR's 0.25) whereas the AR doesn't. The AR reloads faster and has a larger clip. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 289	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:43:00 - [5] - Quote And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator
castba Penguin's March 328	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:44:00 - [6] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 40 meters optimal, 65 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 40 meters optimal, 55 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Where did you get those stats from? The only thing we've seen today for all the weapons is damage. The rifles, and HMG I believe, have a much bigger magnifying glass on them. Stats are in the dev blog
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 275	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:52:00 - [7] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: The MagSec SMG has a charge up time (0.30, higher than the RR's 0.25) whereas the AR doesn't. The AR reloads faster and has a larger clip. I don't dispute that. What does bother me though is that now AR level performance can now be achieved by a sidearm slot, the Magsec SMG loses no range except for a bit of effective, has superior DPS, and greater damage per clip. No other sidearm can boast the same. The SMG is close to light weapon DPS but it's range is only about 20 meters, half that of the Magsec SMG, so it doesn't overshadow any other weapon. I would also like the point out that the AR is now the second worse rifle for DPS, despite having the shortest range.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1924	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:03:00 - [8] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD RoF is part of DPS. Precharge is meaningless, according to the RR. I use Amarr gear. MD/MSMG 514 Assault ak.0: 2x extender, 1x energiser, 2x regulator, 1x repper. Any advice?
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 351	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:07:00 - [9] - Quote Something about an Ishukona Assault SMG out DPSing a Duvolle AR here CEO of SAM-MIK...sometimes. (shhh don't tell anyone, they'll start asking questions)
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 290	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:09:00 - [10] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD RoF is part of DPS. Precharge is meaningless, according to the RR. I use Amarr gear. Honestly slower reaction to contenders fire even if he have higher rate is not meaningless. But suit yourself. edit.:Amarr gear, like really Amarr ScR and you talking here about OPness of Caldari Gauss tek, you are such funny boyo. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator BHD since MAG

Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3007	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:10:00 - [11] - Quote MagSec will be everywhere, forcing it into the forgotten land of Flaylocks by 1.9 Invest accordingly. I GÖú Kittens.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 352	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:21:00 - [12] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD RoF is part of DPS. Precharge is meaningless, according to the RR. I use Amarr gear. Honestly slower reaction to contenders fire even if he have higher rate is not meaningless. But suit yourself. edit.:Amarr gear, like really Amarr ScR and you talking here about OPness of Caldari Gauss tek, you are such funny boyo. Rail tech =/= Gauss tech. Similar, but not the same. CEO of SAM-MIK...sometimes. (shhh don't tell anyone, they'll start asking questions)
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 643	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:28:00 - [13] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 40 meters optimal, 65 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 40 meters optimal, 55 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. The MagSec SMG has a charge up time (0.30, higher than the RR's 0.25) whereas the AR doesn't. The AR reloads faster and has a larger clip. The charge does not work on RR as balancing factor and it will not work on the MagSec as well. Ist a shame that now a sidearm goes into direct competition than a primary the last time this happens was with the flaylock and CCP was forced o nerf the flaylock for that reason. But CC seem to love repeating their on mistakes. Whoever had thought that the Gallente AR will be a nearly useless weapon that gets practically out shined by a sidearm....
Asher Night Dark Tengu 494	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:35:00 - [14] - Quote Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 48 meters optimal, 78 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 48 meters optimal, 66 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Rail Rifle in 1.8 78 optimal, 102 effective 397.6 DPS at prototype 2,171 damage per clip Assault Combat Rifle in 1.8 54 meters optimal, 84 effective 420 DPS at prototype 1,428 damage per clip Assault Scrambler Rifle in 1.8 60 optimal, 90 effective 420.5 DPS at prototype 2,574 damage per clip The SMG is a close quarters weapon, so it should be deadlier. Who do you think is more likely to win 1 on 1 at 50m out: the magsec or any of those rifles? Most CQC weapons in any FPS has a higher DPS. What's more is it has an even higher charge up time than a RR (which logically doesn't make sense). I don't know about you all but I am way more likely to survive against a rail rifle user if I meet them up close, so that charge up time will be a big drawback for the magsec. There is nothing wrong here. 100% Tactical Scout Corporation
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1134	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:37:00 - [15] - Quote Asher Night wrote: Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 48 meters optimal, 78 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 48 meters optimal, 66 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Rail Rifle in 1.8 78 optimal, 102 effective 397.6 DPS at prototype 2,171 damage per clip Assault Combat Rifle in 1.8 54 meters optimal, 84 effective 420 DPS at prototype 1,428 damage per clip Assault Scrambler Rifle in 1.8 60 optimal, 90 effective 420.5 DPS at prototype 2,574 damage per clip The SMG is a close quarters weapon, so it should be deadlier. Who do you think is more likely to win 1 on 1 at 50m out: the magsec or any of those rifles? Most CQC weapons in any FPS has a higher DPS. What's more is it has an even higher charge up time than a RR (which logically doesn't make sense). I don't know about you all but I am way more likely to survive against a rail rifle user if I meet them up close, so that charge up time will be a big drawback for the magsec. There is nothing wrong here. hello reading and logic fail
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 643	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:40:00 - [16] - Quote Asher Night wrote: Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 48 meters optimal, 78 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 48 meters optimal, 66 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Rail Rifle in 1.8 78 optimal, 102 effective 397.6 DPS at prototype 2,171 damage per clip Assault Combat Rifle in 1.8 54 meters optimal, 84 effective 420 DPS at prototype 1,428 damage per clip Assault Scrambler Rifle in 1.8 60 optimal, 90 effective 420.5 DPS at prototype 2,574 damage per clip The SMG is a close quarters weapon, so it should be deadlier. Who do you think is more likely to win 1 on 1 at 50m out: the magsec or any of those rifles? Most CQC weapons in any FPS has a higher DPS. What's more is it has an even higher charge up time than a RR (which logically doesn't make sense). I don't know about you all but I am way more likely to survive against a rail rifle user if I meet them up close, so that charge up time will be a big drawback for the magsec. There is nothing wrong here. I bet you will be wrong the charge is nearly a non issue for the RR thanks to tighter hipfire an my guess this will be true for the MagSec as well. Apart from that there is no reason to use the SMG any longer as the MagSec will outperform the SMG in everyway, the MagSec can directly compete with the AR!! Thats wrong totally wrong. Sometimes I believe no one at CCP knows some basic maths or they simply have no clue on balancing :/. I Havent used the AR since 1.7 as it is already outclassed by the other Rifles now it even gets outclassed by sidearms... I really hope for a respec so I can use my wasted SP elsewhere its sad sooo sad...
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 291	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:42:00 - [17] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD RoF is part of DPS. Precharge is meaningless, according to the RR. I use Amarr gear. Honestly slower reaction to contenders fire even if he have higher rate is not meaningless. But suit yourself. edit.:Amarr gear, like really Amarr ScR and you talking here about OPness of Caldari Gauss tek, you are such funny boyo. Rail tech =/= Gauss tech. Similar, but not the same. Gauss and Rail - SAME Magneticaly accelerated projectile through few serial conected electromagnetic coils on RAIL. Names: Coilgun Gaussgun Railgun testfire Even in spain language its Gauss rifle. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator BHD since MAG
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 276	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:00:00 - [18] - Quote To be honest I am unsure why they reduced the damage on the AR at all. If it has the shortest range, why then, does it have the second worst DPS? The Magsec SMG is OP, either reduce it's DPS notably or increase the DPS on the AR notably.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 638	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:04:00 - [19] - Quote When do most people pull out sidearms? When their primary weapon runs out of ammo, and you need to quickly finish off your opponent. With a 0.3s delay, the Magsec SMG will have a serious disadvantage when compared with other sidearms. I would hold off on the QQ until you actually see them in action.
Asher Night Dark Tengu 494	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:14:00 - [20] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: just like with the tank changes CCP again have shown their super math skills Asher Night wrote: Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 48 meters optimal, 78 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 48 meters optimal, 66 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Rail Rifle in 1.8 78 optimal, 102 effective 397.6 DPS at prototype 2,171 damage per clip Assault Combat Rifle in 1.8 54 meters optimal, 84 effective 420 DPS at prototype 1,428 damage per clip Assault Scrambler Rifle in 1.8 60 optimal, 90 effective 420.5 DPS at prototype 2,574 damage per clip The SMG is a close quarters weapon, so it should be deadlier. Who do you think is more likely to win 1 on 1 at 50m out: the magsec or any of those rifles? Most CQC weapons in any FPS has a higher DPS. What's more is it has an even higher charge up time than a RR (which logically doesn't make sense). I don't know about you all but I am way more likely to survive against a rail rifle user if I meet them up close, so that charge up time will be a big drawback for the magsec. There is nothing wrong here. hello reading and logic fail Oh, the irony. Explain what I have misread. Explain what logical fallacy you have noticed. Do not be a snarky brat who does not actually make points in his debating. I'm confident that I have understood everything you have said (I admit I may be wrong), and my argument refutes your central point. You're the one crying about a weapon before literally even one single bullet has been fired or a single kill has been made with it. How's that for a logic fail... 100% Tactical Scout Corporation

Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 277	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:26:00 - [21] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: When do most people pull out sidearms? When their primary weapon runs out of ammo, and you need to quickly finish off your opponent. With a 0.3s delay, the Magsec SMG will have a serious disadvantage when compared with other sidearms. I would hold off on the QQ until you actually see them in action. Why even bother wielding them like a traditional sidearm? Equip two of them and you basically have the power of two light weapons with a minor drawback. An competent user will easily overcome their pre-charge, especially on a scout suit where you are more likely to dictate when you engage in combat and have greater combat awareness. I am not upset with it's range, Caldari naturally have longer ranged weapons. What I am upset with is the combination of DPS and range.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 355	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:28:00 - [22] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD RoF is part of DPS. Precharge is meaningless, according to the RR. I use Amarr gear. Honestly slower reaction to contenders fire even if he have higher rate is not meaningless. But suit yourself. edit.:Amarr gear, like really Amarr ScR and you talking here about OPness of Caldari Gauss tek, you are such funny boyo. Rail tech =/= Gauss tech. Similar, but not the same. Gauss and Rail - SAME Magneticaly accelerated projectile through few serial conected electromagnetic coils on RAIL. Names: Coilgun Gaussgun Railgun testfire Even in spain language its Gauss rifle. Similar. Not same. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun Similar principles, different mechanics . CEO of SAM-MIK...sometimes. (shhh don't tell anyone, they'll start asking questions)
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 355	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:30:00 - [23] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: When do most people pull out sidearms? When their primary weapon runs out of ammo, and you need to quickly finish off your opponent. With a 0.3s delay, the Magsec SMG will have a serious disadvantage when compared with other sidearms. I would hold off on the QQ until you actually see them in action. Why even bother wielding them like a traditional sidearm? Equip two of them and you basically have the power of two light weapons with a minor drawback. An competent user will easily overcome their pre-charge, especially on a scout suit where you are more likely to dictate when you engage in combat and have greater combat awareness. I am not upset with it's range, Caldari naturally have longer ranged weapons. What I am upset with is the combination of DPS and range. Meh, it'll prolly have the 30% failure rate due to bugs like the current RR does. CEO of SAM-MIK...sometimes. (shhh don't tell anyone, they'll start asking questions)
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 969	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:33:00 - [24] - Quote Its not even out yet! *Assassination is my thing.*
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 341	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:35:00 - [25] - Quote Just for clarification, are those numbers for the Rail Rifle or Assault Rail Rifle? If its the ARR, disregard, if its the RR, then you are not comparing apples to apples, instead apples to bacon, which is unfair. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 143	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:39:00 - [26] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Its not even out yet! Yea we should probably stop jumping to conclusions until 1.8 comes out. Assuming the Magsec is going to OP could screw us all over when we don't really know how it's functionality going to be in game, all we know are some numbers, sure they can give us a rough idea of how it's going to do, but we can't definitively say it's going to be OP. However if it is OP in 1.8, then we complain and hopefully CCP will realize this also and fix it, but if it isn't, we don't want to look stupid... "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Asher Night Dark Tengu 494	Posted - 2014.03.05 19:09:00 - [27] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Asher Night wrote: Texs Red wrote: AR in 1.8 48 meters optimal, 78 effective 412.5 DPS at prototype 1,980 damage per clip (barely capable of killing well tanked 1.8 sentinal suits) Magsec SMG 48 meters optimal, 66 effective 427.7 DPS at prototype 2,079 damage per clp The Magsec SMG has more damage per clip and a great DPS than the assault rifle, and it's a sidearm! It's number were okay before all the rifles were getting their damage lowered but now it's actually superior in DPS to at least one of them with equal range. Rail Rifle in 1.8 78 optimal, 102 effective 397.6 DPS at prototype 2,171 damage per clip Assault Combat Rifle in 1.8 54 meters optimal, 84 effective 420 DPS at prototype 1,428 damage per clip Assault Scrambler Rifle in 1.8 60 optimal, 90 effective 420.5 DPS at prototype 2,574 damage per clip The SMG is a close quarters weapon, so it should be deadlier. Who do you think is more likely to win 1 on 1 at 50m out: the magsec or any of those rifles? Most CQC weapons in any FPS has a higher DPS. What's more is it has an even higher charge up time than a RR (which logically doesn't make sense). I don't know about you all but I am way more likely to survive against a rail rifle user if I meet them up close, so that charge up time will be a big drawback for the magsec. There is nothing wrong here. I bet you will be wrong the charge is nearly a non issue for the RR thanks to tighter hipfire an my guess this will be true for the MagSec as well. Apart from that there is no reason to use the SMG any longer as the MagSec will outperform the SMG in everyway, the MagSec can directly compete with the AR!! Thats wrong totally wrong. Sometimes I believe no one at CCP knows some basic maths or they simply have no clue on balancing :/. I Havent used the AR since 1.7 as it is already outclassed by the other Rifles now it even gets outclassed by sidearms... I really hope for a respec so I can use my wasted SP elsewhere its sad sooo sad... Are you new to FPS's? How is that totally wrong? All weapons should compete with each other. Battlefield, Resistance, MAG (probably Cod but I've never played it) - all FPS's with SMG's make them competitive to all other run amd gun weapons. That is not totally wrong. If the Smg had very low cpu/pg req's for proto then yeah, maybe it would be OP, but it's still proportionally high so it's not like you just grab the weapon and you win. You still have to fit it. It will probably have lower cpu/pg than a rifle, but the short range and charge up time seem to balance it out. This isn't totally wrong. It's probably one of the most important steps to diversifying gameplay that CCP has taken. Scouts are essentially stuck with shotguns or remote exploives if they want to be competitive. This opens doors that anyone can walk through. 100% Tactical Scout Corporation
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 324	Posted - 2014.03.05 19:22:00 - [28] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD Well caldari tech is technically gallente in origin, I'm gallente and I've always favored rails over blasters. It's all hybrid, so it's all gallente as far as I'm concerned lol.
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 277	Posted - 2014.03.05 19:55:00 - [29] - Quote Asher Night wrote: Are you new to FPS's? How is that totally wrong? All weapons should compete with each other. Battlefield, Resistance, MAG (probably Cod but I've never played it) - all FPS's with SMG's make them competitive to all other run amd gun weapons. That is not totally wrong. If the Smg had very low cpu/pg req's for proto then yeah, maybe it would be OP, but it's still proportionally high so it's not like you just grab the weapon and you win. You still have to fit it. It will probably have lower cpu/pg than a rifle, but the short range and charge up time seem to balance it out. This isn't totally wrong. It's probably one of the most important steps to diversifying gameplay that CCP has taken. Scouts are essentially stuck with shotguns or remote exploives if they want to be competitive. This opens doors that anyone can walk through. The problem isn't that it is competitive, it's that it is out performing a primary.
Asher Night Dark Tengu 497	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:09:00 - [30] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Asher Night wrote: Are you new to FPS's? How is that totally wrong? All weapons should compete with each other. Battlefield, Resistance, MAG (probably Cod but I've never played it) - all FPS's with SMG's make them competitive to all other run amd gun weapons. That is not totally wrong. If the Smg had very low cpu/pg req's for proto then yeah, maybe it would be OP, but it's still proportionally high so it's not like you just grab the weapon and you win. You still have to fit it. It will probably have lower cpu/pg than a rifle, but the short range and charge up time seem to balance it out. This isn't totally wrong. It's probably one of the most important steps to diversifying gameplay that CCP has taken. Scouts are essentially stuck with shotguns or remote exploives if they want to be competitive. This opens doors that anyone can walk through. The problem isn't that it is competitive, it's that it is out performing a primary. I respect your right to have your opinion but I don't think you actually understand yourself. It only outperforms primaries when applied at its respected scenario, like the shotgun or sniper rifle, or nearly any other weapon. And again, you mention it as a sidearm but I don't think you understand how much PG/CPU a sidearm can take. It gets to a point where it doesn't matter if it's a sidearm - because of the cpu/pg - it's gonna have to be your main. I don't think you've ever specced into a sidearm or else you'd know mid-tier/proto sidearms are clearly supposed to be main weapons. Why should I have to automatically die because my main weapon is a sidearm and your main weapon is light, even though we're at a distance where a sidearm should be effective? 100% Tactical Scout Corporation

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4850	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:12:00 - [31] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD because you guys have been babied by CCP for far too long. *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 804	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:15:00 - [32] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: When do most people pull out sidearms? When their primary weapon runs out of ammo, and you need to quickly finish off your opponent. With a 0.3s delay, the Magsec SMG will have a serious disadvantage when compared with other sidearms. I would hold off on the QQ until you actually see them in action. For the Mag Sec I'm going to use it when my ScR has their shields down and I need something that their armor doesn't laugh at :/ Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1858	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:22:00 - [33] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: When do most people pull out sidearms? When their primary weapon runs out of ammo, and you need to quickly finish off your opponent. With a 0.3s delay, the Magsec SMG will have a serious disadvantage when compared with other sidearms. I would hold off on the QQ until you actually see them in action. Why even bother wielding them like a traditional sidearm? Equip two of them and you basically have the power of two light weapons with a minor drawback. An competent user will easily overcome their pre-charge, especially on a scout suit where you are more likely to dictate when you engage in combat and have greater combat awareness. I am not upset with it's range, Caldari naturally have longer ranged weapons. What I am upset with is the combination of DPS and range. Every weapon isn't suppose to fit into a traditional role. Some weapons are niche and the magsec sounds like a logis best friend right now. I may actually skill into one if I can only carry one weapon on my logi. Also, being able to carry a magsec and a light weapon creates a mini commando suit. To me, the magsec is the most interesting weapon because it looks to fit how I fight. Being a logi most of my fights are at the edge of short and medium range and I usually fire only to help drop a red or draw fire while my killers reload. The more I think about it the more I think it will be my new weapon of choice simply for the range. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 339	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:34:00 - [34] - Quote On a side note I think we can all agree the ion pistol sounds like garbage. Also looking at the dev blog, the bolt pistol and mag sec smg look horrible. Ugly little guns. I hope they have back up designs based on the rail rifle.
Oswald Rehnquist 1267	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:34:00 - [35] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: And what about precharge and rate of fire?! Why mostly Galentean avatars are against Caldari tek XD because you guys have been babied by CCP for far too long. Please Gal tech with the AR was thy only real weapon in the game for the longest time with zero balance against anything else, if fact it competed with itself in its variants for the longest time, as a trade off shields was much better than armor for a long time. AR superiority outlasted shield superiority as armor becomes the new and best form of defense, cal logis gets nerfed and the rise of the gal logi commences, the dropsuit imbalance hasn't changed even now. The AR gets its first challenge with the ScR, but still holds itself up due to its hitscan mechanics. Ar's histscan hegemony get its first real competitors with the introduction of two new hitscan rifles which just came in last patch. One or two recent weapons is what you describe as favoritism, which still was not as broken as things we had in the past. Essentially all of beta was offensively in favor of the gals, and half of uprising was favored offensively and defensively in favor of gallente. Those are very large windows to label oneself as part of a non favorite group. Now in regards to the topic, all I know if you guys are looking for another damage nerf to the magsec (yes it got one already with the new numbers in the dev blog to align it with the other light/side hitscan weapons), just make sure the cpu/pg matches it power because its fitting cost is about that of the RR. Below 28 dB


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