DUST Search - Lag Switch at the Casbah

Outlaw OneZero wrote:

DJINN Jecture wrote:

and the group I was in squad with was facing the same group of players consistently throughout the evening.

I, and many others, have noticed similar problems playing against specific corps (usually the Nyains). I think we're seeing the impact of two factors combined. It seems like matches with players from different geographic regions produce one level of lag. The DDOS and/or CCPs mitigation attempts have produced a second level of lag. Add the two together and you have disaster.

Also the impact of the DDOS will change depending on how much traffic is being sent vs. CCPs available bandwidth. The affect of a DDOS that uses 50% of available bandwidth will look like lag, as that rises to closer to 100% it will result in disconnects and fatal errors. I haven't seen any data about the severity of the attacks, so I really can't give a good idea of what impact they should be having on game play.

Edit: I don't think CCP can reasonably flip the disconnect everybody switch as both EVE and Dust would be offline for hours while they try to mitigate the attack, and while Dust is FTP, EVE is not.

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DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 138	Posted - 2014.03.05 03:18:00 - [1] - Quote Just finished a match that looked amazingly a lot like the famous LAG SWITCH that some players use in COD . The connection has been extensively tested and it is apparent that the rate of connection has not changed significantly. After the game lagged extensively the next deployment went to a black screen that remained unresponsive. It was a clear disconnection and reconnection to the host that was causing the issue as to what caused it I am not sure. Please check my PS3 system data for errors that occurred during the match to find the cause of this issue. Agent For Hire Come at me Bro!
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2822	Posted - 2014.03.05 04:38:00 - [2] - Quote You can only use lag switches if you're the one hosting the sever. As tranquility is a CCP domain, lag switches cannot be used; unlike in CoD or BF where you can rent out servers to host your own matches. Its just people with poor connections; resulting in really bad lag. Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion League of Infamy 344	Posted - 2014.03.05 11:12:00 - [3] - Quote You hear about people using lag switches and then you learn what they do and it seems like they couldn't work with dust. Then some corps (usually Japanese for some reason) just seem to pwn on foreign servers. I hope that they're not using lag switches and it's just some strange issue with countries that actually have good internet infrastructure (that CCP can fix.... right?). Anyone actually have one of these mysterious devices that can test it for us? With/without the switch from the user's point of view, from a blue's point of view and from a red's point of view? !SCIENCE!
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2823	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:14:00 - [4] - Quote Face palm.... Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1171	Posted - 2014.03.05 14:35:00 - [5] - Quote A lag switch in the this game will only cause lag for the person who is running the lag switch. See the above explanation about server locations.
DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 138	Posted - 2014.03.05 23:52:00 - [6] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: A lag switch in the this game will only cause lag for the person who is running the lag switch. See the above explanation about server locations. LOOKS like...a lag switch does not mean it is a Lag switch, it was a description of the event not a claim someone is using one... Agent For Hire Come at me Bro!
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.03.06 11:10:00 - [7] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Just finished a match that looked amazingly a lot like the famous LAG SWITCH that some players use in COD . The connection has been extensively tested and it is apparent that the rate of connection has not changed significantly. After the game lagged extensively the next deployment went to a black screen that remained unresponsive. It was a clear disconnection and reconnection to the host that was causing the issue as to what caused it I am not sure. Please check my PS3 system data for errors that occurred during the match to find the cause of this issue. did you say Casbah ? Sharia don't like it Rockin' the Casbah Rock the Casbah Sharia don't like it Rockin' the Casbah Rock the Casbah Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 138	Posted - 2014.03.06 16:39:00 - [8] - Quote BAD FURRY wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Just finished a match that looked amazingly a lot like the famous LAG SWITCH that some players use in COD . The connection has been extensively tested and it is apparent that the rate of connection has not changed significantly. After the game lagged extensively the next deployment went to a black screen that remained unresponsive. It was a clear disconnection and reconnection to the host that was causing the issue as to what caused it I am not sure. Please check my PS3 system data for errors that occurred during the match to find the cause of this issue. did you say Casbah ? Sharia don't like it Rockin' the Casbah Rock the Casbah Sharia don't like it Rockin' the Casbah Rock the Casbah Yeah, tbh most of the maps look like they occur at the Casbah and I really didn't like the lag much like Sharia didn't like rockin the Casbah. Agent For Hire Come at me Bro!
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1177	Posted - 2014.03.06 18:01:00 - [9] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Outlaw OneZero wrote: A lag switch in the this game will only cause lag for the person who is running the lag switch. See the above explanation about server locations. LOOKS like...a lag switch does not mean it is a Lag switch, it was a description of the event not a claim someone is using one... Tranquility has been suffering from DDOS attacks recently. If you were playing during one of these attacks it would have looked a lot like someone lag switching, but it would have affected everyone in the match. Edit: I was only responding to what I thought was a veiled suggestion that you had caught someone lag switching.
DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 138	Posted - 2014.03.07 14:14:00 - [10] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Outlaw OneZero wrote: A lag switch in the this game will only cause lag for the person who is running the lag switch. See the above explanation about server locations. LOOKS like...a lag switch does not mean it is a Lag switch, it was a description of the event not a claim someone is using one... Tranquility has been suffering from DDOS attacks recently. If you were playing during one of these attacks it would have looked a lot like someone lag switching, but it would have affected everyone in the match. Edit: I was only responding to what I thought was a veiled suggestion that you had caught someone lag switching. You have an interesting point. A DDoS attack may produce LAG as you suggest but I suspect it to be more likely that it would just trip the disconnect everyone feature on a server to block the incoming flood of packets from a source not authenticating properly. If you notice in the original post that I did mention a disconnect occurred when attempting to join the next match, but it was very unusual that the Lag (majority of the time) was occurring mainly on the one socket, but not limited to it and the group I was in squad with was facing the same group of players consistently throughout the evening. Agent For Hire Come at me Bro!

Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1187	Posted - 2014.03.07 18:13:00 - [11] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: and the group I was in squad with was facing the same group of players consistently throughout the evening. I, and many others, have noticed similar problems playing against specific corps (usually the Nyains). I think we're seeing the impact of two factors combined. It seems like matches with players from different geographic regions produce one level of lag. The DDOS and/or CCPs mitigation attempts have produced a second level of lag. Add the two together and you have disaster. Also the impact of the DDOS will change depending on how much traffic is being sent vs. CCPs available bandwidth. The affect of a DDOS that uses 50% of available bandwidth will look like lag, as that rises to closer to 100% it will result in disconnects and fatal errors. I haven't seen any data about the severity of the attacks, so I really can't give a good idea of what impact they should be having on game play. Edit: I don't think CCP can reasonably flip the disconnect everybody switch as both EVE and Dust would be offline for hours while they try to mitigate the attack, and while Dust is FTP, EVE is not.
DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 138	Posted - 2014.03.07 19:05:00 - [12] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: and the group I was in squad with was facing the same group of players consistently throughout the evening. I, and many others, have noticed similar problems playing against specific corps (usually the Nyains). I think we're seeing the impact of two factors combined. It seems like matches with players from different geographic regions produce one level of lag. The DDOS and/or CCPs mitigation attempts have produced a second level of lag. Add the two together and you have disaster. Also the impact of the DDOS will change depending on how much traffic is being sent vs. CCPs available bandwidth. The affect of a DDOS that uses 50% of available bandwidth will look like lag, as that rises to closer to 100% it will result in disconnects and fatal errors. I haven't seen any data about the severity of the attacks, so I really can't give a good idea of what impact they should be having on game play. Edit: I don't think CCP can reasonably flip the disconnect everybody switch as both EVE and Dust would be offline for hours while they try to mitigate the attack, and while Dust is FTP, EVE is not. They can and have in the past, the question is not whether they can but rather if it is an attack at all. Agent For Hire Come at me Bro!
DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 138	Posted - 2014.03.09 04:52:00 - [13] - Quote Upon researching lag switches to see what the likelihood of the use of one being viable in Dust I have come to believe that it is likely some players are introducing latency to their hardwired internet connection via dimmer switches or packet bombs (pinging commands) which would not only produce the kind of effect many of us are seeing but would also explain the randomness of the occurrences except when running matches with or against certain players. This combined with the ability to DDOS a server almost single handedly with modern computing practises by a single person or multiple people in coordination leads me to believe that some players are participating in this type of behavior. It was quite common in the early days of COD and even today on some of the older versions, shows that players are wiling and able to bend and break the "rules" to get ahead in game. It is something I advise CCP to check for and monitor as well as confront head on. It ruins the game for everyone to allow this type of behavior to occur. Agent For Hire Come at me Bro!
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1005	Posted - 2014.03.09 05:14:00 - [14] - Quote Lt Royal wrote: You can only use lag switches if you're the one hosting the sever. Not true I'm afraid. EVE and thus Dust514 uses a click and point based network solution with ~200ms ping time built it. This is required to solve the various connection deltas from a world wide user base for their spreadsheet in space that doesn't actually resolve individual shots by the user. The user targets a ship and the game handles the rest, Even then they use TiDi (time dilation to reduce interactivity to 90% - basically 90% lag time). TiDi if EVE only, thank the gods. Player A spots B, targets, shoots expects results. B sees first flash, hits lag switch within 250ms (reasonable response time for a young adult male, average is 440ms, old guys don't get to do this). Server sees A and B. Client A sends shot notification, maybe even hit information. Because Client A knows all the information to do that from its information about the clone for client B. Server sends that to client B. Client B doesn't respond to any network activity for 300ms. Network packets get dropped. Essentially the server is responsible for resolving the firing, shots and damage from same. If the Client B says it didn't happen because clone B moved from the location that A thought it was at ... no damage. Dropping packets have to be handled or the customers get continally disconnected. So ... sorry troops. A lag switch will work on Dust514. And the best case is they did it well enough that it works just like a bad connection. To fix it would require a different network architecture and I doubt that is gonna happen. And so it goes.


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